Right to Life

[FlexThis]

Ok,

So maybe I have been gone too long (still kickin' when I can), but I have to comment on the recent Terry Schiavo case. Most of you know me as a die hard republican who is pretty conservative in his views. But this recent Bush congress thing has got me bugged.

First of all, this is a matter for the states to decide, not congress. I see no reason why the GOP or the Democratic party can benefit in anyway on either side of the issue. This is simply a tragic case.

Secondly, the husband who is desparately trying to end his wife's life in what he calls her dying wish, has a girlfriend and 2 kids with another woman. So when does the state step in and say, "You are no longer married to Terry, you have a common law relationship with another woman, and therefore do not have a say in Terry's welfare"???? Only a few media personalities have picked up on this. The courts have not.

Thirdly, you have a handful of Dr.s saying she is brain damaged and in a persistant vegetative state. Meaning she cannot respond to stimulii. Yet in any video of Terry, you can clearly see her move around and respond to stimulii. There are a host (more than a handful) saying she is not in a persistant vegetative state and that she can be rehabilitated to lead a better life. One of those hosts of Doctors is a Noble Prize winning physician.

Lastly, and what bugs me the most, is the fact that anyone would be willing to watch a person starve to death. I mean I can understand if you are on life support. But Terry is not. She could easily live at home and eat strained peas and rice for the rest of her life. But instead, they want to simply remove the feeding tube and watch her dehydrate and such.

Now I always thought that Dr.s had an oath to preserve life no matter what. Even violent murderous criminals shot up in a stand-off with police have the right to be cured before they are sentenced to die. And even then they are sentenced to die by a jury.

Terry has commited no crime, her husband has moved on to another family, why can't he let her go and move on? She is obviously not the Terry he knew and loved, she has become something else. Why must it be so difficult for him to move past his life with Terry and let her family (the ones that did not move on to other families) take care of her as they intend.

In any event, this is a sad case and I feel although I have strong opinions for letting her live. I do not support Bush and congresses decision to butt in. I also believe the husband is a moron for insisting she die based on a response to a movie she watched years ago. And the end all beat all for his argument is this, "Well, she can't grow a new brain". I can't have kids, should I be put to death???

Comments please on both sides. This issue will one day affect us all in some way. Let's not let congress play God on this issue.

~peace

[slapdash21]

haha, this is kind of funny. i, as well, diehard republican conservative (more conservative than republican), and i also think that the husband's wishes should be followed.
it is SO obvious that shiavo is just being used as a political pawn at this point, by members of the house, congress, and yes, even bush.

[Tsiangkun]

She is blind. Her nerves show no signs of function, and her brain is rotting in a pool of her own spinal fluid.


Pull the plug and let god sort it out.

[FlexThis]

I think the husband is a nut for his reasoning behind his decision. And agree about the political pawn.

2 words come to mind:

JEB BUSH

Pick any other state and congress doesn't give 2 shits whether you starve or not.

I say put her in an institute and continue to research possible causes and treatment for such a state of being. Science has as much right to her living as the husband for dying, based on his logic.

His logic:
She doesn't want to be a vegetable.

Science logic:
No one wants to be a vegetable, let's find a cure.

I'm surprised Cameron that you would take that stand.

~2 more cents

[slapdash21]

im not sure if camerons stance really suprises me...he has suprised me a couple times before.

but we do need SOMEONE to come down on the other side of the issue...shouldnt take too long...

[ashleyd]

i, also, find the fact that they are starving her to death completly un-necessary. If they want her to die, then give her something that will make the death quick. Its incredibly crule to starve someone.

and about the husband, I dont know what his deal is. The parents say that they would take compete responsibitly for her, and that she could stay at there home and be treated there. why doesnt he do that? I really dont think that he believes Terri would want to die. and for some reason, to me, i just cant believe that. he thinks this is best for her.

every person has a right to life unless the person themselves say they dont want to live. so weather she said she wouldnt want to live or not, we'll really never know. but if she did want to live, then you just killed someone.

[FlexThis]

I find it interesting that suicide in this country is illegal. If you attempt to kill yourself, then you go to jail.

If you are terminal and are going to die in like 2 days yet are still on life support and conscious, regardless of how you feel, it is illegal for the suicide Dr. to inject you with a lethal dose of whatever to end your misery.

Hell, I feel like shit somedays and wish someone would just shoot me already, but alas that too would be illegal (maybe not a crime, but definately illegal).

Even if Terry were awake and talking and wanted to die, by law she can't.

Yet if you are brain dead, then a loved one who has power of attorney can kill you???

And why o why does he want her gone sooooooo baddddddlllly. I mean this guy is persistant as hell at wanting to kill her, yet noone is asking the real question, which is: "What do you have to gain or lose by her being either alive or dead?"

Obviously the parents intend to care for her, and it is also obvious that the guy has moved on already. What is she gonna wake up one day and positively identify her husband as the man who tried to kill her??? Rediculous thought, but what is it that is making him want her gone???

This inquiring mind wants to know, and doesn't buy the "She told me so", crap.

[C-Fan]

First of all, this is a matter for the states to decide, not congress.

I agree completely. Whatever happened to States` Rights? Isn`t that one of the core philosophies of the Republican party?

Secondly, the husband has a girlfriend and 2 kids with another woman. So when does the state step in and say, "You are no longer married to Terry, you have a common law relationship with another woman, and therefore do not have a say in Terry's welfare"????

He is legally married to her. Having a girlfriend, or other children doesn`t have any bearing on the legal status of their marriage.

Thirdly, you have a handful of Dr.s saying she is brain damaged and in a persistant vegetative state. Meaning she cannot respond to stimulii. Yet in any video of Terry, you can clearly see her move around and respond to stimulii. There are a host (more than a handful) saying she is not in a persistant vegetative state and that she can be rehabilitated to lead a better life. One of those hosts of Doctors is a Noble Prize winning physician.

One of the most difficult things for family members of brain-dead patients, is how much it looks like they are sleeping. The human body is an incredible thing, built to survive. We`re still mapping out the functions of the brain, and learning new things about how our brains work. Our personality, our self is lodged somewhere in the brain. The thing that allows you, Damon, to think, be funny, like footbag, vote Republican etc... the thing that makes you YOU, is in your brain. But your brain also houses other functions too. Your brain does lots of things at once. My brain, at this very moment, is where my thoughts on this topic are coming from. But not only is my brain generating those thoughts, it is also sending messages to my fingers to type them. It`s also regulating my heart beat, and making sure other things don`t go wrong in my body.

In brain-dead patients, the part of the brain where the capacity for rational thought exists no longer functions. But other sections of the brain still do. So the brain can still regulate the functions of the body, but the part of the brain where your personality (your ability to think) no longer functions. If I prick a brain dead patient with a pin, or spill hot coffee on their hand, their body will still react, because its a reflex action. But if I say their name, they won`t be able to register the information.

Terry has commited no crime, her husband has moved on to another family, why can't he let her go and move on?

If you dated a girl and loved her deeply, but then you broke up (on good terms) for some uncontrollable reason, would you stop caring about what happened to her? If something horrible were about to happen to her, and you could do something to change it, would you? Or would you `let her go and move on` because you have `moved on to another family`?

And if Terry Schiavo said she would want the plug pulled if she were brain dead, then `let her go and move on` would mean pulling the plug, instead of leaving it in.

=====================================

Personally, I feel the discussion about `should Shiavo live or die` is not nearly as important as what is happening in Congress. Congress passed a law that only applies to one case, to one named person. Whatever happened to a republic where laws apply equally to everyone? This law is different from other `private bills`, in that it is re-opening a case fully considered by state courts. The law congress passed may be well-intentioned, but it sets a horrible precedent. Whatever happened to the whole concept of Federalism and the balance of powers? The people in American government today like to wrap themselves in the constitution, but whenever things don`t go their way, they wipe their asses with it.

[FlexThis]

FlexThis wrote:


Secondly, the husband has a girlfriend and 2 kids with another woman. So when does the state step in and say, "You are no longer married to Terry, you have a common law relationship with another woman, and therefore do not have a say in Terry's welfare"????


He is legally married to her. Having a girlfriend, or other children doesn`t have any bearing on the legal status of their marriage.

Oh yes it does. If he is unfaithful and commited adultery, which he clearly has, then he has violated Terry's rights as a wife. She is legally entitled to a divorce. Yet under present circumstances she cannot even comprehend such an occurance.

If you can't see what is seriously wrong with the husbands taking advantage, then your morales are all over the place.

Also, noone, not one doctor has labeled her BRAIN DEAD. She is brain damaged. The Pope himself stated that if food and water alone are the only things needed to sustain her life. Then she is not terminal and the acts of the husband and the courts amounts to assisted MURDER.

And if Terry Schiavo said she would want the plug pulled if she were brain dead, then `let her go and move on` would mean pulling the plug, instead of leaving it in.

She never said she did. This is all heresay from the husband, who in my opinion has no right to her well fare given his own infidelity.

And nothing is stopping him from divorcing her.

Once again, she is not brain dead, she is brain damaged. If she were brain dead (and I know you know this Ken) she would need assisted breathing and even an artifical heartbeat to sustain her. But she doesn't. Food and water are the only things she needs to survive.

As an example look at Autism. Would you kill innocent autistic kids simply cause they can't comprehend their environment. We could easily starve them and they too would die.

I just find the way the doctors are going about this all wrong. Starving a person is inhumane no matter how sick you are.

[BainbridgeShred]

Oh yes it does. If he is unfaithful and commited adultery, which he clearly has, then he has violated Terry's rights as a wife. She is legally entitled to a divorce. Yet under present circumstances she cannot even comprehend such an occurance.

What rights? You don't have any rights as a spouse. She could have divorced him whether or not he cheated on her.

If you can't see what is seriously wrong with the husbands taking advantage, then your morales are all over the place.

First of all, morales are subjective, thus you shouldn't be casting a shadow on other peoples "morales". Second, it is easy for people these days to assume we know everything about someone in the media, because well, it's the media's job to do that. So don't try to paint this guy off as some bastard who wants to off his wife so he can bang his girlfriend, because really, you simply don't know if that is the case.

Also, noone, not one doctor has labeled her BRAIN DEAD. She is brain damaged. The Pope himself stated that if food and water alone are the only things needed to sustain her life. Then she is not terminal and the acts of the husband and the courts amounts to assisted MURDER.

I wasn't aware that the Pope was a MD. It's disgusting to me that one man, as a result of his piousness, is able to cast judgement on any issue and come off as justified.

I agree completely. Whatever happened to States` Rights? Isn`t that one of the core philosophies of the Republican party?

The neo-conservative movement is more closesly related to Totalitarianism in contrast with Conservatism. The neo-conservative's goal is to take control of their populaces lives, thus it is more relatable to communism than it is to conservativism. They just hopped on to the conservative movement like a parasite because they know that no 3rd party stands a chance in America. This is reminiscient of Hitler and his goons parading themselves as Socialists despite being quite the opposite.

[Tsiangkun]

. . .

I can't even see how this was a big deal. It's a media distraction issue to keep americans divided over bullshit issues.

Why is nobody talking about the school shooting ? 9 people died, and they all were functioning fine until they were shot. Oh, I guess it's because everyone can agree that this is a tragedy and would not serve to divide the populace in half to stiffle discussion and debate.

[slapdash21]

9 people died, and they all were functioning fine until they were shot.

hey, where's the proof of THAT claim? haha. but um...yeah, i think this issue is kind of bullshit, especially since decisions like this are made everyday, but this one is getting media attention...for some unknown reason. its not actually a very unique case. school shooting? i dont know much about that one...i havent read the paper yet today, im sure there is plenty about it. do they know why he did it yet? hm.

[FlexThis]

The 2 are not comparable Cameron. Ofcourse shooting up a school is wrong. No need for debate as you mentioned.

Terry's case however not unique, still sets precedent for future cases. I just find it hard to believe that while the courts are fumbling around the appeals process, this brain damaged woman is being starved to death, ON PURPOSE.

And the parents are not the only ones fighting at this point either. Several human rights groups are also fighting.

What will be tragic and I fear inevitable, is that Terry will die before anything is resolved and it will be another 20 years before the Media chooses to sensationalize another controversial issue like this one.

While you may feel it is a distraction and IT IS. It is still important to look at the facts about cases like this and stamp out an acceptable blue print for the future.

[Tsiangkun]

legalise euthenasia, then they could humanely terminate the woman without starving her to death. The starving is a bit inhumane, but the termination of life is a right every citizen should have.

I'm glad congress is focusing on the most pressing issues in the country, like baseball.

[FlexThis]

I'm glad congress is focusing on the most pressing issues in the country, like baseball.

HAHAHAHA Thanks I needed that.

I agree about euthenasia. But starving someone is well .... inhumane.

[Tsiangkun]

yep, once again the argument focuses on a specific instance to rally pro lifers while ignoring the large elephant in the room.

Let people die with some dignity, or least without suffering.

[HG]

Im not trying to be an ass but....



Just kill her already. If she ever comes out of her 'coma' or brain deadness, which is impossible in her case, she will not lead a happy life. If YOU want to be morally correct, take her away from her suffering.


It takes $50,000 to house a prisoner per year, how much do you think it takes to house Terry Schiavo per year? I say about $500,000-1 million dollars, judging on how high our hospital bills our. So thats about 8-16 million dollars wasted on a person who has no chance of leading a good life. LET HER GO FOR GOD SAKES. Life is not worth living if you cant live life.

[FlexThis]

Terry doesn't need housing though. Her parents have offered to care for her.

Something else bugs me about the husband and it must be said.

WHAT IS HE HIDING?

He plans to cremate the body directly following her death.

Now why o why do you think that is? Not to speculate - But I think I will anyways.

What if this jack-ass of a husband put her in a coma in the first place???

What if???

Could he be trying to hide his own guilt???


It just doesn't make any sense to go after your wife's 'Right to die' for like 15 years. In that time he has other kids by another woman, all the while married to Terry.

It makes no sense.

Dignity or not - Someone is hiding something, and the facts are getting misinterpreted by so called 'Experts' who can't seem to agree on a diagnosis.

The main doc who diagnosed Terry only met with her for 45 minutes. In that time he got her to respond to stimulii and complimented her on it. Not all the tests that can be done have been.

Let's say she is brain dead and her brain is floating in spinal fluid. What gives her husband the right in the first place to make the call to kill her, when a convicted felon has more rights?

The same doctor said brain dead and Altzheimer patients have no rights.

WTF????

Have we come so far in medicine that we have all the cures and know all the answers???

It just pisses me off - Sorry to vent, I just can't believe what is taking place in this country. Makes me want to move to Canada .

[Tsiangkun]

As I read the news, and google the names who are most interested in 'saving' this womans life, it's clear to me there is some confusion.

one man in particular claimed the Tsunami victims are being punished by God, and it's good they are dead, yet he is so touched by the life of a woman who hasn't exhibited any human behavior in 15 years ?

Interesting.

[FlexThis]

one man in particular claimed the Tsunami victims are being punished by God, and it's good they are dead, yet he is so touched by the life of a woman who hasn't exhibited any human behavior in 15 years ?

Don't get me started on the crazy-ass Christians out there saying God's will has been done.

That's a crock of crap too. And he probably said that cause Terry is a Christian (Catholic) and the Tsunami victims (their words not mine) "Are a bunch of sinful child rapers".