Footbag School, the future of footbag?

[BalinorNZ]

I have been discussing with my gf and a guy I kick with about this potentially brilliant idea to grow footbag as a sport. I will attempt to explain it here:

Footbag is a sport.
To learn most sports you go to a practice, you have instructors/coaches that teach you the basic skills of the game, which you in turn practice till you learn them sufficiently.

Example: Tae Kwon Do, you have black belt instructors, their black belt signifies their level of competence in the sport is such that they can instruct others in learning the skills involved in TKD. It takes about 2 years to get Black Belt (in NZ ITF Tae Kwon Do).

In footbag, the blackbelts are the guiltless players. Every player in the world that is above the level of tiltless is guiltless, even vasek plays guiltless most of the time, there are different levels or 'strengths' of guiltless players however. Once a player is guiltless in footbag, (in my opinion) he is at a level where he can teach the basics to new players and is respected, much like a black belt.

Tae Kwon Do relies on people inviting their friends to trainings and them getting involved as well as advertising to get new players, not from people seeing TKD students at the park doing flying kicks at trees... its not the nature of the sport to be performed in public. This is the same for break dancing clubs and clubs for most other sports similar to footbag, apart from skating/BMXing/rollerbladeing etc.

With sports like skating you can’t really have a club because it’s too hard for each club to provide a skate park etc for their members. Skaters are drawn to the sport by seeing other people play, they see someone hit a kickflip and decide they want to learn that so they buy a board and try.

Footbag has the best of both worlds. It is socially acceptable to play footbag in public and is largely encouraged by onlookers, the setup costs for a club are low enough that one can be started and maintained without to much difficulty.

So I propose that people start footbag clubs.

People have already done this, however, no one (to my knowledge) actually treats the instruction of footbag as they would a normally sport. Sure we have clubs but there are no official coaches, no set training times, no formalities, just casual shreds.
This is why footbag is often not treated as an actual sport but as more of a hobby.

My primary goal is to become guiltless. Once me and some of the rest of the crew achieve this we will open a club through clubs and socs (a organisation that people can run clubs and societies through down here) - probably beginning of next year so we can take advantage of clubs and socs day to advertise and get some beginners interested. We will have set training times, maybe an hour twice a week, we will also be able to get a room for free in clubs and socs after we are registered and a club and we will get some advertising through them.

How we will teach footbag is open for discussion, but I expect we will have one instructor take the new players away and teach them toe stalls, then with the main group another instructor will go through the basic moves that we have been learning and perhaps add a new one each session (i.e. atw mirage legover pickup clipper and later illusion). New players can borrow practice bags and if they keep coming they can buy a bag for 10$NZ or so from me (I might need to find a cheep way of sourcing crap bags). Eventually the club can order lavers for players that get the basics pretty good and have the money.

Here is the best part; as we teach our students they will begin to have shreds at uni and people will ask them where they learned that stuff and the students will tell them when the practice's are on and where and people will come, and then they will bring their friends. Basically footbag advertises itself, we just need to tap into all this free advertising and use it to get more people playing, and the way to do that, is to start a footbag club like the one i'm suggesting.

I realise that a venture like this will do little or nothing for my game, it is simply pumping time into the community in an attempt to grow it.
The benefits of something like this working would be potentially exponential growth in the community (as people take the initiative and start new clubs) and great events and competitions that could potentially be held.
There are endless possibilities.

Sorry that was so long and through, I felt I had to explain it properly for you to get a good idea of what i’m on about.
What are your thoughts on this? You think it will work in Dunedin, and if it does will others catch on? Do you have any suggestions or criticisms?

[tumppi]

I dont really like that word. meaning coach because i actually stopped one of my intrests because i had a coach. and i like footbag because i dont need to have a coach in it

[Omen]

That was long, and I didn't read it all, so if this doesnt apply and you have already covered it, don't blow me away.

However, footbag already seems to have this, I mean, if you kick with a crew you teach yourselves. If newbies come along you help them along, give your advice but don't push it. Footbag takes time.

I mean, clubs can't just casually kick like you say, otherwise there would be no hope for begininers.

So I guess what my jumbled words are already saying is that we already have teachers among us in most any club with advanced players or frineds. Just ask for help amongst your fellow players.

If you want to grow the sport, put footbag on TV more.

[ashleyd]

i think that if your going to do it, go for it. it sounds like youve figured everything out, i just hope your "students" are patient. youll probably find that some people may quit because of the difficulty and the time it takes to get good. they may get bored with trying to get consecutive kicks or something like that.

props for trying to expand footbag. i hope you get alot of newcomers.

[SlashC]

The shredmonton footbag club has been providing footbag instruction at the YMCA for the last couple of months. It's an activity as part of their friday "teen-night". We have a dozen mr. sandbags and a studio with mirrors/music/good lighting floor. Kids come in and can try footbag. If they're into it, then we start teaching them stuff. We usually start with toe stalls. It's pretty informal. Eventually, we hope to get a regular class going where people would pay for like an 8week session, get a bag, and a footbag practise once or twice a week.

I find that a lot of the kids who show up to our friday sessions are kind of flaky and often quit early on or say they like it and never come back. A lot of kids don't even have the courage to try. "I don't want to embarass myself". I think pride and social conventions are overrated. We've started to get a core group who keep coming back, so that is encouraging.

I think the hardest part of teaching footbag is keeping people motivated. Different people need different kinds of motivations and all the kids learn at different speeds. i.e. It is super frustrating for the kid who has come to the last 3 sessions to bring his friend and have them be better than them within an hour. I think a paid for footbag class would be good because even when the kids get frustrated they would think: "oh well i already paid for it I might as well keep at it". Or there parents would say that...
I also find props to be very helpful in motivating people...

edit: Teaching people has helped my game a super amount! By teaching beginners I learn new things about tricks/concepts that I'de never even considered before. Seeing kids hit new tricks also motivates me to keep teaching and playing. (It's fun to teach!)

[slapdash21]

yeah...that is a valid question that has been brought up. if you are teaching someone, do you think its important to start with the basic kicks, or would you just start with toe stalls?

[C-Fan]

Teaching footbag is definitely a worthy activity. As Rory mentioned, teaching tricks often means becoming more aware yourself of how you do tricks. I feel you can only really teach things that you yourself understand well.

And to address Peter: I think it`s very key to teach basic kicks before stalls. Learning basic kicks improves your leg coordination, and that is fundamental for learning stalls.

I also would recommend thinking of yourself as more of a mentor than a coach. Maybe I`m just playing semantics, but when I think of myself as a mentor to the players in Japan, it keeps me more humble and helpful than if I think of myself as a coach. If I think of myself as a mentor, I`m just another footbagger who happens to have been playing for a while longer, and can share my own learning experiences.

[junkyardjew]

i really don't think it needs to be formalized in the way you're suggesting. it basically already works that way. take kingston for example, mosher is our 'coach' and we have a set practice time (thursdays at seven!) that people can come out to (or not. usually not) but they know that we'll always be there and can come kick if they want to. with encouragement, lending of bags (and even shoes!) we in kingston have all come a long way in a short period of time.

also, to address the kicking / stalling thing - most people who get into footbag do so from hack. generally, they can already kick. what most of them don't know is that stalls are actually easier than kicks (and yes, i'll debate you ad nauseum on this point). i think it's important to learn kicks (which is why i drill them every time i play) but the fact is, if you get them started on stalls early (ie, the first time they play) they'll probably be able to hit a simple trick like atw or mirage within the first couple times they play. i'm pretty sure that's what kept me n' tom's freind hugh playing. the fact that he hit a cool trick almost right from the start did a lot to encourage him and keep him in the game.

[mosher]

That is exactly the point I was going to make regarding kicks vs stalls to start with.

If I am hanging out with someone and they feel compelled to give it a try after hearing me blab on about it for hours then I would never start them off on kicks because they are SO frustrating at first!

The timing and aiming of kicks make them too finicky for a first timer to try out. For reference I am talking about the situation where I am showing a complete foot and bagsport newbie some simple things, not an experienced hacky sacker.

It is much easier to walk them through a toe stall meaning they will get to their first rewarding milestone earlier. This of course means that they will feel encouraged and psyched quicker thus upping the odds of them actually sticking with footbag.

Once you have them sold you should THEN offer that they give kicks a try.

I think perhaps we are talking about different stages of starting. There is the initial hook moment and then there is the beginning of a freestyle career.

[BalinorNZ]

i think that if your going to do it, go for it. it sounds like youve figured everything out, i just hope your "students" are patient. youll probably find that some people may quit because of the difficulty and the time it takes to get good. they may get bored with trying to get consecutive kicks or something like that.

props for trying to expand footbag. i hope you get alot of newcomers.

Sorry but I think you are absolutly wrong. At the training sesions we will take aside groups to learn kicking and toe stalls so they dont have to be totaly lost when we practice mirages or atw with the more up to speed part of the class.
It is not hard at all to get good if you have someone guiltless (an instructor) instructing you on how to improve what your doing, after all, all of footbag is comprised of little tricks really, the way you use your hip and knee to better stall a clipper, the way you tilt your leg to make the mirage dex far eaisier etc.
The reason why lots of new players get board is because of the way it is widely taught at the moment. Newbies are forced to stand there and watch the rest of the circle which they dont understand. They have to wait their turn and then when its their go they cant do anything and just feel embaressed, and often nobody helps them where its needed. This is because they dont see themselves as 'instructors' but as fellow players who have no place interfearing in others games.

Peter:
There are ways to teach kicking quickly to new players so they dont have to spend too much time on this more trivial aspect of the game, I think ken is right in that this should be taught first.

Damien:
Hey man there are some new auckland players that want to kick with you and adrian etc, check the footbag.co.nz forum to catch up with these guys if ur keen.
Also, ofcourse its not impossible to learn footbag if you go along to shreds, but as i mentioned before it is far from the best way of learning the sport. New players are often to scared or embaressed to ask for help from better players and the better players are often to lazy to teach or dont know how to properly, this is why I propose the idea of guiltless instructors.

Rory:
I am absolutly thrilled to hear about what you guys are doing with your club!! That is almost exactly what I want to get going here.
I would really like to get in contact with you about this if I can, do you have an e-mail adress or msn I could use to talk more with you about your club?

I dont think its a good idea to charge fees, simply because I want to do this for the comunity and not my own gain, and while having paid for something is an incentive to keep doing it, its more of an incentive for new players to not come, especially here where all the students have no money and something that costs is just to expencive for them.

I expect that we will get the flakey people who just drop off, but as you have found, eventually you get the ones who are actually interested in getting good who keep coming back, and will one day be instructors themselves, this is exactly how it happens in Tae Kwon Do. I hope to overcome the pride and embaressment factor by holding the practices in a private room away from the public where we can encourage players of every level and tgive everyone individual instruction on moves.

I feel you can only really teach things that you yourself understand well.

I also would recommend thinking of yourself as more of a mentor than a coach. Maybe I`m just playing semantics, but when I think of myself as a mentor to the players in Japan, it keeps me more humble and helpful than if I think of myself as a coach. If I think of myself as a mentor, I`m just another footbagger who happens to have been playing for a while longer, and can share my own learning experiences.

Ken:
You make a valid point, the reason I will not start this instuction group untill I am firmly guiltless is because I feel like that is the level where you have competance enough to teach the basics of footbag. When I say basics I mean toe delay, clipper delay, atw, mirage, legover, pickup, illusion and later osis, butterfly and pdx mirage. After players get far enough to do these moves competantly they can start to take hold of their own game and branch into what sets they want etc. They will still be able to get instruction but our primary aim to start with atleast will be to instruct beginners.

As far as the mentor thing goes, I think if the students are going to listen to us they need to recognise us as instructors and not just as other players with other opinions. They need to realise that we know better as far as basic moves are concerned so that they can learn them properly and get a good base to grow their game off. Of course this does not mean we cant all be friends, its not like the teacher and the student at school, or the coach and the player in rugby, we are all equals, just not in footbag knowledge.


... I hope that covers all your coments, thanks for your input guys this is really helping me mould this idea in my mind.

[slapdash21]

yeah...i dunno. footbag has always been more of a casual thing for me anyway. i dont mean i dont take it seriously and drill for myself...but im not exactly passing out tracts downtown. i guess its all about helping someone along, if they are motivated to do it up, otherwise they will just drop off, which is bound to happen with people anyway.

but yeah, personally i also think its important to learn how to kick the bag at least reasonably well. i cant do 1000 consecutives or anything...but i can kick it with a lot of regularity, and i think thats important to learn first.

[BalinorNZ]

Woah you guys are posting faster than I can read and reply.

Jared:
I think that to an extent things do need to be formalised. Your own club is formalised, you have a set kicking time each week and a player, Tom, who you all recognise as better than you and able to intruct you. Sure its not as formal as what im suggesting, but what im suggesting isnt law, you can use my idea how ever you want, like you are already doing, and if it works for your area thats great.
But realise that its hard for new players to stand in a circle with good players and not know whats going on, and then be crap when the bag gets to them. IMO the best way to teach footbag is 1 on 1 instruction from someone who knows what they are doing, its not boaring because your not just standing their driling, your drilling and being told how to improve.

Tom:
Most of what your saying mosh, is just alterations to my general idea, which is great, they all need to me considered, but those are the finer details and can be finnalised later right?

[BalinorNZ]

By the way this same topic is also being discussed here:
http://www.footbag.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 4704#14704

[Omen]

Damien:
Hey man there are some new auckland players that want to kick with you and adrian etc, check the footbag.co.nz forum to catch up with these guys if ur keen.
Also, ofcourse its not impossible to learn footbag if you go along to shreds, but as i mentioned before it is far from the best way of learning the sport. New players are often to scared or embaressed to ask for help from better players and the better players are often to lazy to teach or dont know how to properly, this is why I propose the idea of guiltless instructors.

I do agree, I know how scared a newbie can be when first starting, I never asked for anything and never took turns with the bag. I think advanced players need to try a bit harder to help out I guess. When I teach (what little I know) I just throw out my ideas and other people's ideas so they can get a little bit of everything.

Don't do it formal like, just do it in the clubs your already in. Take the newbs aside or spend a lot of time with them in the shred circle.

.... who's Adrian, and where is Auckland (New Zealand?)?

[C-Fan]

.... who's Adrian, and where is Auckland (New Zealand?)?

He`s confused. There is a footbagger in Auckland, New Zealand named Damian Coventry. He`s been playing since the mid 1990s, and still plays. You can see old video of him on footbag.org in the 97 worlds galleries. HackyRichard also posted video of Sick3 from this year`s NZ nationals, and he does some tricks in the Sick3.

He was confused because Damian`s nickname/screen name also used to be `Omen.` He saw a footbagger named Damien with the tag `Omen` and just assumed it was the other footbagger, named Damian who goes by Omen.

[shreddaily]

My primary goal is to become guiltless.

Good Luck!!!!! It will feel GOOD.

However once you're there it becomes harder to teach new players, and new players will become more intimidated watching you.

[BalinorNZ]

My primary goal is to become guiltless.

Good Luck!!!!! It will feel GOOD.

However once you're there it becomes harder to teach new players, and new players will become more intimidated watching you.

Man im definatly looking forward to guitless! The trick is not to hog the bag. Infact apart from showing students what is possible in footbag I wont play at all apart from to show them how the tricks they are learning should look.
Also how do you mean its harder to teach once your guiltless? I dont quite follow the logic there .


Btw, thanks for clearing that up Ken!! Sorry for the mix up damian!

[Omen]

No prob, except...... "there can be only one", even if he does spell it differently.

Someday I will go to New Zealand, its a dream of mine (Australia and New Zealand), we can clear it all up then, over some non alcoholic beverages

[shreddaily]

Also how do you mean its harder to teach once your guiltless? I dont quite follow the logic there .

I simply mean that once one can bust big it is less fun watching/teaching newbies the game, especialy when they don't progress as fast as one thinks oneself did. The more I read your posts though it seems like this doesn't aply as much to you as it does some/most shredders. So PROPS and teach on!!!!

[BalinorNZ]

Also how do you mean its harder to teach once your guiltless? I dont quite follow the logic there .

I simply mean that once one can bust big it is less fun watching/teaching newbies the game, especialy when they don't progress as fast as one thinks oneself did. The more I read your posts though it seems like this doesn't aply as much to you as it does some/most shredders. So PROPS and teach on!!!!

Lol thanks Nate

I guess teaching is not cut out for all footbag players, but I think that alot of players would be interested in seeing footbag grow as a sport and be motivated to take on a responsibility like being a footbag instructor.

As with anything in life, its not always going to be fun and as rewarding as one would hope, but in the long run it will pay off, when there are enough players in your town to hold comps and have big jams, and there are so many you need several clubs and a multitude of begginers schools!

Anyway, I diverse. Thanks for reading and comenting on my ideas, its really good to get experianced opinions!