The new Pope

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 05 Apr 2005 13:26

seriously...
maybe its so that the pope doesnt have to come up with anything new to say when he is blessing the people/holding mass...PJP2 mumbled so much he could have been saying anything...or nothing.

tstep84 · Post by **tstep84** » 05 Apr 2005 14:38

I think people have to have a little more respect for this issue. Yes, this is the internet, and people can basically say whatever they want, but how would you like it if some one started making comments about someone you held in such high respect??? I hope people understand how much this man meant to the people of the catholic church and the rest of the world.
PJP2 mumbled --- Every older person does this. My grandfather does this, I can still understand him. Maybe one day someone will make jokes about you in your old age about how you have trouble getting words out.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 05 Apr 2005 15:06

The pope needs a better marketer, because I think the pope is held in high regard because he is the pope. I think you could dress any old mumbling senile man up in the pope gear and drive around the pope mobile and people would be just as impressed. It's not his views, his relevance, his speaches, or his accomplishments that gives the pope his position of respect, it's just because he has the title. Name anyone pope, give them the mobile and the robes, and the people will respect him just as much.

Whoever is chosen, we can be sure he will be loved and respected around the world by millions of darling followers. Most won't know a thing about him except his title, but that's all you need to know to respect the pope. He will be chosen in a secret meeting by a group of men who dress in large hats and wear dresses. The millions of people tithing to the church every week will have no say in the direction of the church, only someone with the qualifications of the pope could possibly know what God wants.

Plus the choice will be annouced with a puff of white smoke, how cool is that ?

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 05 Apr 2005 15:28

tstep84 wrote:I think people have to have a little more respect for this issue. Yes, this is the internet, and people can basically say whatever they want, but how would you like it if some one started making comments about someone you held in such high respect??? I hope people understand how much this man meant to the people of the catholic church and the rest of the world.
PJP2 mumbled --- Every older person does this. My grandfather does this, I can still understand him. Maybe one day someone will make jokes about you in your old age about how you have trouble getting words out.

honestly, i dont think i will care if people make fun of me when i get old and (more) senile. i think its funny now (obviously), even when thinking about myself.
and what about people who respect bush? i certainly do. if i had a problem with people poking mild humor at respectful people, i would be offended at the amount that people make fun of bush, and im sure someone else who has more respect in general probably IS offended. i realize its not exactly the same, since bush isnt dead, but still.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 05 Apr 2005 15:31

Tsiangkun wrote:The pope needs a better marketer, because I think the pope is held in high regard because he is the pope. I think you could dress any old mumbling senile man up in the pope gear and drive around the pope mobile and people would be just as impressed. It's not his views, his relevance, his speaches, or his accomplishments that gives the pope his position of respect, it's just because he has the title. Name anyone pope, give them the mobile and the robes, and the people will respect him just as much.

Whoever is chosen, we can be sure he will be loved and respected around the world by millions of darling followers. Most won't know a thing about him except his title, but that's all you need to know to respect the pope. He will be chosen in a secret meeting by a group of men who dress in large hats and wear dresses. The millions of people tithing to the church every week will have no say in the direction of the church, only someone with the qualifications of the pope could possibly know what God wants.

Plus the choice will be annouced with a puff of white smoke, how cool is that ?

sorry for the double, but this went up while i was posting...

all i have to say to you, Tsia, is....

DING DING DING!! some of the most intelligent (and humorous

) things you have said. especially the part about the title being the important part, because thats the most accurate and important part of what you said. the part about catholic priests wearing dresses and such...more open to debate of relevance, but hey, still funny

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 05 Apr 2005 23:09

tstep84 wrote:I think people have to have a little more respect for this issue.
PJP2 mumbled --- Every older person does this. My grandfather does this, I can still understand him. Maybe one day someone will make jokes about you in your old age about how you have trouble getting words out.

Pope John Paul II didn`t just mumble, he suffered from Parkinson`s disease for the last 10 or so years of his life. Members of my family have suffered from Parkinson`s, and it isn`t pretty. It`s like their true selves get lost. Like my great godmother, Madrina. We`d be talking for 10 minutes, and it was like the Madrina that I grew up so close to was back, joking around and reminiscing about the old house where I`d play when I was growing up. Then I`d leave the room to go get sandwiches (bocadillos) and when I came back, she would look completely shocked and confused, and ask when I flew in from America. Or she`d wake up in the middle of the night, call my father and be hysterical because she was sure she was in the wrong house.

I feel bad for the Pope that he had Parkinsons, because its a terrible disease. I think its a travesty that he was forced to make public appearances so long, and be a figurehead for all the cardinals and bishops in his entourage. The last 10 years of his life he wasn`t calling the shots, it was his caretakers. And I don`t particularly like what they did either. I was raised Catholic, and went to Church regularly through High School. I stopped going because I eventually got completely alienated by all the conservative stances the Church was taking, and didn`t want to support them with my contributions any more.

Under Pope John Paul II, the criteria for episcopal appointments became super-conservative. The criteria was pretty much this (taken from an editorial in the NYTimes) " In order to have been named a bishop, a priest must have been seen to be absolutely opposed to masturbation, premarital sex, birth control (including condoms used to prevent the spread of AIDS), abortion, divorce, homosexual relations, married priests, female priests and any hint of Marxism."

I understand lots of people are grieving his death,but as a former Roman Catholic myself, I just wanted to throw out there that I didn`t think he was a very good Pope at all.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 05 Apr 2005 23:29

as an athiest, i would like to say that i have alot of respect for him. although i don't agree alot of his opinions, some of which ken just posted, while he was at the helm the catholic church did alot of things that i though were steps in the right direction. admitting that the church in the past had done wrong, asking forgivness for the crusades, forced conversions, and it's stance during the holocaust, strengthening relations between many of the worlds other religions, and saying that christianity could infact be wrong just to state a few. i mourn his passing.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 06 Apr 2005 06:53

I don't understand why religions need figureheads and if they do, why are they appointed by man. Isn't the leader of whatever religion supposed to be the closest person to god. If he is the closest person to god, shouldn't god appoint him?

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 06 Apr 2005 08:28

delakong wrote:I don't understand why religions need figureheads and if they do, why are they appointed by man. Isn't the leader of whatever religion supposed to be the closest person to god. If he is the closest person to god, shouldn't god appoint him?

that's sort of a useless question isnt it? If god could directly communicate with these people then it wouldnt be much of a religion would it?

There's leaders in everything, religion is no different. People need people to look up to, it's just the way it is. The Roman catholics are acting out a 2000 year old tradition of naming someone as the human representative of their religion, it dates back to jesus's time when he made petey the first pope.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 06 Apr 2005 10:07

Peter wasn't the first pope because he was apointed by Jesus. He was chosen because he was the only apostle that wasn't killed. Being the only surviving apostle he was the most knowledgable about the teachings of Jesus so believers apointed him as the head of christianity. That's not the case now.

But I did get your point about everything needing a leader. Guess I was just being airheaded.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 06 Apr 2005 10:10

If God can't communicate directly to people, doesn't the church have some explaining to do about these 2000 year old beliefs that God hasn't personally bother to converse on for a really long time ?

How do the decision makers know, if God himself is not involved in the decision, that they have decided in accordance with the wishes of the maker ?

Maybe it's a sign that the direction is so wrong, that God himself doesn't even care anymore.

What honor could the lord possibly receive from millions of people being infected by AIDS through the actions of his highest representatives ?

I think once we have another infallible being selected from a pool of previously fallible beings the world will once again be like Eden. In the meantime, I just keep hoping when I get out of my car nobody gets confused and thinks I elected the new pope as the puff of white smoke rolls out.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 06 Apr 2005 10:22

That does it. I nominate Cameron.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 06 Apr 2005 13:59

delakong wrote:Peter wasn't the first pope because he was apointed by Jesus. He was chosen because he was the only apostle that wasn't killed. Being the only surviving apostle he was the most knowledgable about the teachings of Jesus so believers apointed him as the head of christianity. That's not the case now.

But I did get your point about everything needing a leader. Guess I was just being airheaded.

well no he didn't say "Petey boy put on this hat, You're the pope!" but he did say stuff to him after he resurected like "take care of my sheep" and gave him a big heart to heart about how he will be pretty much killed because he would be leading his sheep and such.. And that's probably some of the most credible info in the bible cuz John, the John that wrote the gospel was with JC and Peter when this conversation went on.. Or so the bible says..

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 06 Apr 2005 14:02

and im not 100% sure, but i think peter was the first to be killed, upsidedown crucifixion.. ouch..

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 06 Apr 2005 14:05

haha triple post

heh ok steven got fed to some lions first. Dont know when peter died.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 06 Apr 2005 17:26

Jesus obviously didnt want only Peter to be something special...he didnt want peter to be the only one to 'sheperd his sheep,' etc, he just specifically said this to peter (and is mentioned in the bible) because peter was having trust problems at the time. this was the first time peter and jesus had spoken since peter denied jesus 3 times. also jesus used this conversation to tell peter how he would die, though i guess thats somewhat unrelated. but, if jesus intended for peter to be someone special, and evangalize to more people than anyone else ("take care of my sheep") i think peter would have lived a bit longer. Jesus wanted ALL believers to evangelize for him (disciples evangelize to non-believers, creating more disciples...trickle-down effect), i do not believe the pope is a necessary position. thats one of the differences between baptists (and several other denominations) and catholics...though there are more important differences as well.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 06 Apr 2005 18:14

Ok true slapdash, but didnt he also change Peters name from Simon to Peter, because it means the rock, and he told him that he was the rock on which he intended to build his church?

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 07 Apr 2005 11:33

of course, this is all a question of theology, and in my particular religion, no man is above anyone else in the kingdom. though, actually, im being a retard...that isnt what you are actually saying. i DO think that if Peter had been a complete failure as an evangelist (history speaks otherwise) than God would have had someone else step in and do that job...so what im saying is God didnt really need Peter, and he wasnt a flawless person, he was still human and obviously made some mistakes. and of course Peter wasnt alone as an evangelist...God didnt intend to spread the gospel through one single man, form his spiritual kingdom on the shoulders of that one same man...all of the early disciples did some spreading of the word. the most underrated group of evangelists were the disciples that were not of the original twelve...there were hundreds of people who followed Jesus, listened to him preach, believed what he said, and preached to others. So, Peter WAS a great evangelist, and the name "the rock" certainly was an applicable description, though, since he was a mere human, wasnt a permanently applicable name throughout every period of Simon/Peter's life after having met and believed in Jesus.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 08 Apr 2005 20:30

regardless..

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven.” 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 08 Apr 2005 20:36

all i was saying was he was the first pope apointed by jesus.