flip atw's and pickups

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 06 Apr 2005 01:15

firstly i just can't get the right motion for my flip atw's and i was just wondering if anyone has nay exercies or advice so i can practise getting the right motion, secondly when i originally used to do my leg overs i didnt jump off my setting leg and i could do pick ups but not leg overs. but now when i jump i can do leg overs but not pickups. (obv ive tried to not jump when doing pickups) the thing is during a shred i can't do pickups cause i have to jump when im doing other tricks with the same sort of movement. any tips ideas or help would be appreciated.

Shredster · Post by **Shredster** » 06 Apr 2005 07:54

You just need to keep practicing.

Thats all.

ericksonj · Post by **ericksonj** » 06 Apr 2005 11:53

That's basically all the advice anyone truly needs

I would say though that you should try not to hop or jump with those moves. They can be done that way sure, but they don't need to be. Just lift your leg as the bag is rising to get it in place. Once the bag has peaked and your leg is on top of it, complete the motion and catch the bag.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 07 Apr 2005 01:57

thanks ill try that. its just my friend he jumps and i assumed it was needed to actually do it.

Just call me hagesy · Post by **Just call me hagesy** » 07 Apr 2005 13:21

For pickup, it might help to get on your toes for the move. Don't jump however.

tuomoruutufan · Post by **tuomoruutufan** » 06 Jun 2005 08:36

when your trying to learn a flipside trick it helps alot to also be doing on your strong side.

you want your body and muscles to start mimicing the way the other leg does a motion.

2 flips 1 strong.

your progression will increase if you stick hard to that

Commodore · Post by **Commodore** » 06 Jun 2005 09:40

People at footbag.org say you have to jump when doing legovers. Ellis Piltz jumps too in the vid at flipsider.com. I jump too. I told my brother to jump. Now I have to start learning it from the beginning again.

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 06 Jun 2005 09:44

Um, an ATW still counts if you have the jump. It's the same trick either way. Some people use the jump to help with the dex, that's all. Whichever way you do it is fine.

Dat · Post by **Dat** » 06 Jun 2005 11:08

Get really comfortable standing on your flip support leg. You shouldn't feel like you're going to fall over when you're doing stuff with your flip leg.

I think it's better not to jump in most cases. You have more control when you have your weight on your feet. If you jump you don't have the ground to help you. If you watch someone like Brad Nelson you'll notice he stays mostly on the ground. He gets his dex leg moving and his body turning by pushing against the ground, not jumping and flailing his arms. That's part of why he looks so solid.

Use your support leg against the ground to counter the motion of your dexing leg. This gets your dexing leg moving faster sooner. For example, if you're doing a legover, push at the ground in the opposite direction your legover leg kicks out, ie push in the direction behind you.

Make sure your dexing leg is set in motion BEFORE the bag gets to where you want to dex it. You get gobs more time and you can do dexes much more slowly and smoothly if you start early. It's much easier to just guide your already moving leg around the bag than to do a dex with your leg starting later from a dead stop.

I think it's easier to dex if you focus on which muscles you use to dex, rather than just thinking about moving your leg around the bag. Your quads push your lower leg out and your hamstrings pull your lower leg back. So for a legover think if it as pushing your lower leg forward with your quads and then pulling it back in over the bag with your hamstrings.

professor · Post by **professor** » 06 Jun 2005 11:17

Just practice the motion for all your flipside tricks without the bag. Practice them all the time, like when you are waiting for your hot pocket to finish cooking, just do the motions with your leg. This way the motion gets into memory and you are building muscle.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 06 Jun 2005 13:50

yeah I think it's fine to put in a little hop for any move - if you're hopping then you're setting the bag using muscles on both legs instead of one - this will mean less effort and more time. Personally I don't hop with atw, pickup or legover - however that's not to say you should or shouldn't.

I think of hitting a new move as the first step - it doesn't matter what you're doing to hit the move - just try and hit it. After that you can slowly work on your technique so that you're hitting the move easier and better looking.

Some moves can be hit in different ways as well - and there isn't anything wrong with that. For example if you want to learn paradon or atomic sets then hopping into a legover will make those moves easier later. If you want to learn ducking or spinning legovers it will probably be easier if you don't hop into a legover. If you want to learn double legovers or eggbeaters it's definitly best if you plant the dexing foot then jump off it (symple legover). The best thing to do is to learn all three styles of legover - but it's ok if you start with one style before learning others.

sNale · Post by **sNale** » 06 Jun 2005 23:23

Jeremy wrote: Some moves can be hit in different ways as well - and there isn't anything wrong with that. For example if you want to learn paradon or atomic sets then hopping into a legover will make those moves easier later. If you want to learn ducking or spinning legovers it will probably be easier if you don't hop into a legover. If you want to learn double legovers or eggbeaters it's definitly best if you plant the dexing foot then jump off it (symple legover). The best thing to do is to learn all three styles of legover - but it's ok if you start with one style before learning others.

I totally agree with that! I do Legovers without a hop. But now I'm learning to do them with the hop and hope that that will help me with my Paradons

Back on topic:
Andrew what helped me was, after trying a new move several times, to sit down close my eyes and imagine the move and all the motions included. And I view my legs doing that move perfectly. And that give it another try

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 06 Jun 2005 23:45

I think the hop totally helps with all the fundamental 2 adds!
I never used the hop for legover, but recently I had a legover battle with Ryan Seath and found I used the hop to protect my dexing leg. Like it's been said, the hop gives you more control and more time. There is so much more speed and sudden movement required without a hop -- this can result in injury (I'm particularly sensative about this because I am injured and doing consecutive legovers without the hop would have strained my leg more than I can handle!)

I believe that the hop will make the move easier to understand, easier to perform, less physically demanding to perform, AND add more style to your game, as you will have more time to concentrate on the movements you make. Later you will need to learn to be able to perform your fundamentals faster and without the hop (in order to perform more dificult tricks), but by that point you will have mastered the basics and worrying about the hop will no longer be an issue.

Also, for your flipside, listen to what Shawn said. Practice your "good" and "flip" together! But for every 1 goodside attempt, attempt 2 flipside (or even 1/5 or anything -- depending on how strong your goodside is and how frustrating it is for you to learn your flipside). Being bothsided is very important, and what Dat said will help sooo much also; "Get really comfortable standing on your flip support leg"!!! When you are waiting in line at the cafeteria, or waiting for the bus, or watching a commercial between TV shows, or WHATEVER, school your concepts -- even if it is without a bag! If you need to practice your flipside support leg balance then always be mindful of your support legs while you are even just STANDING! If you are standing behind the counter at work with nothing to do, lift your good leg off of the ground an inch and balance on your flip. Think about what you do on your goodside and incorporate that into your badside. If when you are sitting at your computer you tend to lean more to one side, begin to concentrate on leaning more to the other side, or completely central!

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 07 Jun 2005 08:00

How do you define a hop? A small jump or the toes still touching the ground?
Well, I don't think that a "jump" is very good, but it's ugly to keep the heels on ground. If a hop is defined so that it isn't an actual jump, I also agree that a hop is more stylish.
When I play toe game my heels almost never touch the ground. The dexes aren't so "forced to get over the bag" if you know what I mean.

Commodore · Post by **Commodore** » 07 Jun 2005 23:08

I think it's which way you feel better. If I can do it better with a hop, I'll do it.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 08 Jun 2005 10:05

I think when I do my hops they are less than an inch off the ground -- so just BARELY, but it's totally dependant on what you feel comfortable with

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 08 Jun 2005 10:11

yeah totally - it's not that you try to jump off the ground - it's more that you change which foot is on the ground but because you start with the dexing foot there is a brief moment when neither foot is on the ground - ie as one goes up the other goes down. If you don't do this it means one foot goes down and then the other goes up - so it's less efficient (since you're only moving one foot at a time instead of both at once) - but you're training different skills.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 08 Jun 2005 10:21

OK, sounds good to me now.

I've done my legovers with hops and will do them in the future aswell.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 09 Jun 2005 09:49

there is no flip

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 09 Jun 2005 22:59

ana_ali wrote:there is no flip

Pfft, not for you :p There is for everybody else