Unnaturalness of complete bothsidedness

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 09 Apr 2005 13:08

The human body is not perfectly symmetrical, therefore is it possible for anyone to be completely without "good" and "bad" sides, and to be completely bothsided? I know I strive for complete bothsidedness, but I believe this is also what has caused me pain and injury. What do you other bothsided-believers think? (Especially those of you who BEGAN completely bothsided...I'm looking at you Tom Mosher...)

jon · Post by **jon** » 09 Apr 2005 13:42

mmm I am not really bothsided, I can only pixie on one side, and my flip spins are terrible, same with flip dlos and eggs but other than that I am. I have seen some injuries from my attempt to be bothsided, a groin injury from my flip atomics which I think has finally gone away

But besides that I don't really believe trying to be both sided makes a shredder more likely to injury themselves. What I do see as the problem, well at least in my case, is learning something on my strong side well, then quickly trying to make my flip catch up in skill to my strong. This is what happened with my atomics, I didnt take the time to progress them and develope the right movement and muscles and strained my groin because of it. If a player takes their time and learns their flip and strong at the same pace and makes sure one side doesnt progress to quickly over the other, then they should be fine. Asymmetric or not we should be able to learn any movement with both sides of our bodies with enough practice, and in doing so I think it helps develope our strong sides even more, which in turn helps the flip and so on and so forth. I think it should be the goal of most shredders to be bothsides when it comes to runs. I dont really care if there are a few crazy sets or big tricks a player can only hit on one side, but one sided strings in my opinion look stupid, repeditive, and lame. I am not saying every string should have everything bsos, but it just makes a string flow much better if components are thrown in on both sides.

/end rant

Dat · Post by **Dat** » 09 Apr 2005 14:18

There probably will always be a lingering dominance but I think it's possible to get your game to the point where others can't detect it.

I believe for every trick there is an ideal way to do all footbag tricks that takes the least amount of effort and inflicts a minimum amount of harm to your joints and muscles. To be completely both-sided you not only have to be able to hit the trick, you must be doing something close to the ideal on both sides. If it doesn't hurt on one side, it shouldn't hurt on the other. If it does you're not doing it correctly on your flipside.

There are so many different muscles in your legs, torso and arms that all have to work together as a team. They have to do specific tasks at specific times cooperatively in order for a move to be executed correctly. When you do a move on your strong side your muscles are working to do that move. On your flipside all the opposite muscles have to do the complete opposite in order to execute a move successfully.

Like me I'm sure most people are not consiously aware of all the things their body is doing during a strong side footbag move, let alone figure out the differences. That's why it's so hard to have a really strong flipside. This is even more difficult if you do lots of other things outside of footbag one sidedly( ie i'm more comfortable sleeping on my left, i write with my right hand). Dominance in your body is harder to detect because everything feels normal because that's the way it always feels.

My approach right now for improving my flipside is to try to become more aware of what my body is doing and try to notice the minute differences in what my muscles are doing between my strong side and flipside.

For example I've been practicing writing with my left hand. In classes where the teacher goes slow enough and I don't have to do any drawings I write with my left hand. I've been able to figure out a lot of things my body is doing while I write with my right hand I didn't realize before:

-When my right hand is relaxed my right palm faces up. This is so when I'm writing with the pen down I can quickly lift my hand off the paper by just relaxing my wrist. This allows me to write faster than if my right hand faced down and I had to lift the pen in some other fashion, such as with the muscles on the back of my forearm.

-I rest my weight on my left arm and shoulder. This takes weight off my right arm and shoulder and allows them to move more freely making it easier to write with my right hand.

After I figured these out and I applied them to writing with my left hand it got easier and felt more natural. These are all things that you can't really see, you have to learn to feel. This is what I do when I practice footbag and it's helped me make progress with my flipside.

I should stop writing now and get back to my homework. Maybe I'll add more later.

SlashC · Post by **SlashC** » 09 Apr 2005 14:19

I think that being one-sided is more likely to cause injury. Doing repititive actions over and over and over on just one side increases fatigue and strain and likehood of pulling a muscle/tweaking a joint. Also if something gets hurt on your strongside then you'll over compensate on flipside and end up hurting that side too. Example: When I was 9 I jumped into the wrong end of the pool and landed heavily on the heel of my right foot. For the next year I compensated with the injury by favoring my left foot. (I used to jump up and down constantly). Well the right foot healed but by then I had injured the left foot from overuse. This went back and forth until I just had to stop jumping.

I think the best way to avoid injury is to learn things bothsides simulateously. You never see people at gyms just working out their right bicep, or their left quadricep. It's all about balance. When I learn new tricks or concepts I will do 5-10 attempts on one side and then do the same flipside.

I think there's also some tricks/concepts in footbag that are more likely to cause injury just from the nature of the tricks and the different stresses that they put on the body. Atomic sets and whirls come to mind (reactor is the worse!

).

Shredfish · Post by **Shredfish** » 09 Apr 2005 15:19

When I started I was pretty much COMPLETELY single-sided. Quite a while ago it started to haunt me. My left leg would hurt even after a few mintues of shred. But a few months ago I was getting alot better at being both sided (plus i got insoles) This helped my legs ALOT!!! I love it now. I can shred pretty much all I want!!

both sided = good

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 09 Apr 2005 16:01

SlashC wrote:This went back and forth until I just had to stop jumping.

Atom · Post by **Atom** » 10 Apr 2005 14:14

Erik i have to say that my right leg has a quicker learning curve than my left, but that doesn't stop me from being more proficent (sp?) with my left leg....

for example i prefer mirage on my left side and illusion on my right, butterfly on my left side and clipper on my right, dada curve left side and drifter on my right. i do school both sides but these i can just hit consistenly in comparison to the opposite side.

(i think that is what you were asking about...)

professor · Post by **professor** » 10 Apr 2005 17:04

I find that the most tricks on my flipside, even though I can do them equally as well and consistently as my regular side, feel less natural/comfortable than my regular side. The unatural feeling of the flipside makes for a longer learning curve as Adam said. I also notice that a lot of the time the actual trick is not where the difference is, but it's the set after the trick that is less reliable.

So, I don't know if you can totally eliminate your flipside, but I do think you can significantly decrease the difference in consistency between your flip and normal side, but your flipside will always feel less natural. (assuming anything in footbag can feel "natural")

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 10 Apr 2005 17:56

I guess I have been pretty loud about this whole topic since I started.

I really truely think that humans are capable of complete ambidexterity, we are just lazy.

I think once a person starts out with a dominant side it can be very difficult to erradicate. I have worked hard from the beginning to not let anything get dominant. In the few cases where it happened I found that simply concentrating on the weak one alot more made it go away.

With the knowledge that I can overcome any weakness of that sort I feel pathetic when I think about the things I havn't put the effort into evening out.

Complete bothsidedness is achievable with the proper mentality AND desire to attain it.

I am not completely both sided, but I am working on it.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 11 Apr 2005 03:24

I'm been keeping my self both sided from the first day I kicked the bag very first time.

At the moment I'm so both sided that I'm not completely both sided anymore, well no-one else can't notice it than me I guess. I know it sounds weird. It's about technique and balance.
I start some tricks or sets in different balance or do the dexes with legs in different angles or something. Or maybe I'll start some set with other side so that my hand is in a bad position and it unbalances me... At this point it's all about those tiny differences. And yes, they all feel just about the same and look the same, but they really aren't...

footbinc · Post by **footbinc** » 11 Apr 2005 10:18

This is a topic ive never completely understood from freestylers. What is the monster deal with being both sided? Does Peyton Manning of Brett Favre throw with Both Hands? Does David Wells or Mariano (Yankees Closer?) Pitch with Both Hands? Does Beckham take free kicks with both feet? Have you ever heard a skateboarder tell his friend he is weak cause he cant flip ollie, but can kickflip 6 stairs?

Most Net PLayers dont spike with both feet.

Im not a pro freestyler by any means, but I would rather learn new tricks and be good at that then worry bout hitting PS Whirl on both feet. If I can, all the better, but this both sidedness (sic?) issue seems out of control, unless maybe someone can better explain the desire? Tom? you seem to be a huge proponent of BS.

Cheers

Ben

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 11 Apr 2005 10:55

footbinc wrote:This is a topic ive never completely understood from freestylers. What is the monster deal with being both sided? Does Peyton Manning of Brett Favre throw with Both Hands? Does David Wells or Mariano (Yankees Closer?) Pitch with Both Hands? Does Beckham take free kicks with both feet? Have you ever heard a skateboarder tell his friend he is weak cause he cant flip ollie, but can kickflip 6 stairs?

Most Net PLayers dont spike with both feet.

It's about style. It doesn't matter if Manning or Favre can throw with both hands (they probably can BTW) because their goal is to use the strongest arm to throw further and more accurately. Pitchers don't use both for the same reason. Most soccer players should be proficient with both feet, when I played soccer my coach always made sure we practiced kicking/passing with both feet. In skateboarding/agressive inline you don't need to use both feet but it's ten times sicker if you can. Switch is the shit. I've heard plenty of skaters bitch about not being able to do tricks switch (namely me with aggressive inline).

Hope it helped.

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 11 Apr 2005 11:21

delakong wrote:Pitchers don't use both for the same reason

I would think if a pitcher could throw with both arms reletively the same, he would pitch two nights in a row, dont you think?

jon · Post by **jon** » 11 Apr 2005 11:46

the reason it doesnt matter in soccer, baseball ect is because its the power/force that is the objective, the objective of footbag is too look cool, to look cool you need strings, they need to be long, they need to have nice links, to have nice links requires a lot of components on both sides

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 11 Apr 2005 16:07

footbinc wrote:This is a topic ive never completely understood from freestylers. What is the monster deal with being both sided? Does Peyton Manning of Brett Favre throw with Both Hands? Does David Wells or Mariano (Yankees Closer?) Pitch with Both Hands? Does Beckham take free kicks with both feet? Have you ever heard a skateboarder tell his friend he is weak cause he cant flip ollie, but can kickflip 6 stairs?

Most Net PLayers dont spike with both feet.

Ben

One of the things that makes the NBA player Steve Nash so good, is his ability to pass accurately with either hand, as well as his ability to shoot with either hand. In basketball, bothsidedness has distinct advantages. One of the reasons Amare Stoudamire wasn`t as effective in his first two years in the league was his inability to go left. People guarding him only had to work half as hard, and could direct where his offense would go. LeBron James is one of the best finishers in the lane because he can easily go either direction.

As for net players, it is generally accepted that if you can`t do outside kicks with both feet equally well, you will never even reach the level of a competent intermediate. If you show a weak side or a foto preference in Net, a good opponent will exploit the shit out of that.

I think one major advantage to both-sidedness in footbag, is that by learning how to do a move flip, you are forced to understand the theory behind it. Once you understand the mechanics of a trick (instead of just doing it instinctually on your strong side) then your strong side also becomes better, and it will require less energy and effort to execute on either side.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 11 Apr 2005 16:30

footbinc wrote:This is a topic ive never completely understood from freestylers. What is the monster deal with being both sided? Does Peyton Manning of Brett Favre throw with Both Hands? Does David Wells or Mariano (Yankees Closer?) Pitch with Both Hands? Does Beckham take free kicks with both feet? Have you ever heard a skateboarder tell his friend he is weak cause he cant flip ollie, but can kickflip 6 stairs?

Most Net PLayers dont spike with both feet.

Im not a pro freestyler by any means, but I would rather learn new tricks and be good at that then worry bout hitting PS Whirl on both feet. If I can, all the better, but this both sidedness (sic?) issue seems out of control, unless maybe someone can better explain the desire? Tom? you seem to be a huge proponent of BS.

Cheers

Ben

Peyton Manning and Brett Favre are able to complete their job by making use of only one arm.

Where as footbag is a beautiful medium where we have the wonderful *oppotunity* to make use of both sides.

In soccer you only have to use one foot to kick the ball each time, in writing you only need one hand to hold the pen but neither of those things indicates that humans are inherently one sided beings. I strongly believe dominant sides develop out of habit. Whichever side seems easier at first will logically be the one that you run with and then it starts the process.

Being bothsided in footbag increases the number of links you can make EXPONENTIALLY, not just double.
There is no denying that.

There is no reason to favor one side in footbag. It only hurts your game. It makes strings look lopsided and wierd.

I think being bothsided is something to be proud of.

Also, achieving both sidedness is not very difficult if it is the mentality that gets applied from the beginning.

Think about it - every trick is new to both sides, why not learn them at the same time??

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 12 Apr 2005 05:32

mosher wrote:Think about it - every trick is new to both sides, why not learn them at the same time??

Yeah. Join me and Tom in BSP (both sided posse)!!!

Atom · Post by **Atom** » 12 Apr 2005 09:57

i like to think of it this way.... consecutive infinities looks amazing compared to consecutive SS butterflies....who could disagree?

Darkshredder · Post by **Darkshredder** » 12 Apr 2005 10:40

I don't have a flipside stepping set. Both of them are equally tough. It was weird, though. I hit ripwalk for the first time on my flipside and it's easier to step with what should be my flipside. Then right after I hit it flip. Soo that was odd. And fun.

and yes. alternating infinities are definitely more impressive than ss butterflies. No matter who does them it looks effortless.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 12 Apr 2005 11:03

my pixies are one sided, my left pixie is decent but not as proficient as my right because I practiced dominantly my right side pixie and neglected my left. I learned stepping and atomic about the same time i made a mental decision to be as bothsided as possible, now I still have a dominant side for those sets, but I always forget which one is the stronger one they seem to change all the time.

and I hate to say it but my nuclear set is going to be super right side dominant, because that's the only one I practice... dammit, i even showed myself it's possible with my stepping and atomic to be totally both sided and i go and fuck up a sick set like nuclear. dammit.

quantums are going to be so both sided though.