About tiltless/guiltless etc.

Juker · Post by **Juker** » 11 Apr 2005 12:57

Ok, so here's what I've always wondered. When trying to go tiltless, would it count if you did something like: Clipper> toe stall to pixie> butterfly> inside stall to legover - etc etc. Or would the toe stall leading up to the pixie, or the inside leading to the legover ruin the tiltless? As you can tell, I'm pretty new to freestyle. I started actual freestyle about 3 or 4 months ago. I've been circle kicking since about 4 years ago, but just started getting into freestyle. I decided to look one day into some tricks and ran across flipsider - it changed everything. Any help would be great, thanks.

Shredfish · Post by **Shredfish** » 11 Apr 2005 13:03

It's always nice to see new people come to footbag! (not that i've been in it very long). Welcome.

Doing toes and inside does ruin tiltless. Doing tiltless is like: mirage> clipper> far legover> illusion> ducking toe> legover> pixie...you get the idea. You can do bigger add tricks too though. But you can't go lower. And a toe stall, for example, is 1 add. I hope that solves things!

Juker · Post by **Juker** » 11 Apr 2005 13:09

Thanks a ton, and thanks for the welcome also. I was pretty sure that's how it was, I was just double checking if the clipper (2 add) counted still for when it landed on you toe and one trick. Then when you'd set it up for the mirage or whatever, if it was like doing another trick. Meaning the toe stall was just the end of the clipper and the start of the next trick instead of being on it's own in between. But thank you for clearing that up. I have a tough time with this, but can still do it barely. I'm lucky to have some friends to practice with also, at my same skill level.

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 11 Apr 2005 13:11

I interpreted the the question in an other way.
That's something I was asking myself too :

you can for example take mirage> magellan

you can do the pixie set directly out of the ending toe stall of the mirage OR you can do the ending toe stall, throwing the bag up and THEN pixie legover. It's taken like the ending toe stall is a part of the mirage and the initial toe stall following that is a part of the magellan, so you still do mirage > magellan. Got it ?

I'd peronally say this ain't guiltless.

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 11 Apr 2005 13:46

Juker wrote:Meaning the toe stall was just the end of the clipper and the start of the next trick instead of being on it's own in between.

The clipper move starts right after your last trick, when you set the bag
up again. Then you stall it in clipper position, and this is technically
the end of the trick. After that, you start the next one, which, in your
case, is a simple toe stall, which is a one add, and thereby ruins the
tiltless run. Welcome to the board!

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 11 Apr 2005 13:50

comastalker wrote:It's taken like the ending toe stall is a part of the mirage and the initial toe stall following that is a part of the magellan, so you still do mirage > magellan.

No, because there's a difference between mirage>magellan and mirage>toe stall>magellan. Every move starts with the bag rising
and ends with a stall/kick. So after the mirage, which ends on a toe,
you lift the bag up again (and this is where the new move starts), catch
it on toe again (this is where the move ends), and then do the pixie legover. How can this be the same?

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 11 Apr 2005 13:53

that's clear for me, but the description of job's notation ain't that clear on this (it looks like a move consists of set->...->stall)

Juker · Post by **Juker** » 11 Apr 2005 19:37

Thanks everyone, oh btw, I wasn't saying it was guiltless, just tiltless. Only used guiltless as an example for the subject. My actual question I was giving an example of tiltless.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 11 Apr 2005 21:34

Generally moves in footbag are like this:

set > dex/bod/symp components > delay

Where you set the bag from does not matter, where you set the bag from has nothing to do with the add value of a move.

For instance, the notation for magellan is:

toe set [in-dexterity] > same leg [out-dexterity] > same toe [delay]

The parts in the [ ] are where adds are givin, notice that 'set' is not in brackets, but 'delay' is. Therefore where the bag is set from is irrelevant, but where it is delayed is not.

So clipper>toe>dimwalk is not tiltless but clipper>pdx mirage>dimwalk is (because it has no 1add moves but does have a 2add).

Lol sorry that was damn confusing, its ok jobs notation is hard to get used to and is disliked by alot of people because it is a bad way of defining the difficulty of a move, it only really is good for grouping moves into 'general' difficulty levels and for discribing how a move is performed in text.

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 12 Apr 2005 00:28

I'd say it this way :

Don'T give a shit about ****less.
Look for a fluid game and don't worry if you have bails in it.