Lavers VS Everything Else

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 14 Apr 2005 15:58

Since I've been shredding in my CT 420's exclusively it's got me thinking, why lavers??

I've used lavers ever since I learned what footbag was, a couple weeks ago I switched to New Balance CT 420's and the difference is PHENOMINAL!! I havent even touched my lavers since I bought the 420s for one sole reason.. the sole.

(well yea and the toes are huge and the walls are flat and very clippery, and the grip!!!!! AWESOME!)

Ok now I KNOW why lavers, flat sides, very thin, huge toes, but what about the lack of grip and sole? I really believe I was doing unneccisary damage to my legs by using them. The sole is almost not even there on lavers.

For those of you who are thinking stuff like "well it's enough sole if you are playing with proper form" or whatnot I disagree totally! Symp stuff is best with as much force absorbtion in your shoe as possible right? And those huge tricks you really have to jump for just to foot, drilling etc, the sport is getting more intense with every passing day too! FOOTBAG REQUIRES A MORE ADVANCED SHOE THAN THE CURRENT STANDARD!! This sport is hell on your lower body, the shoe we use should amply support all the force we subject our legs to.

I'm not trying to promote ct 420's, I'm trying to promote more expiramenting and searching. The laver is getting a little outdated. I would love to see a huge explosion of alternatives start to flood the scene.

Shoe technology has seen some huge progression in the last thirty years, why are we still relying on science from the 70's?

(sorry tom had to post this first(I win:D))

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 14 Apr 2005 16:31

Someone has 420 on their mind... I'm going to assume you meant 520.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 14 Apr 2005 16:38

what? huh?

itsanother · Post by **itsanother** » 14 Apr 2005 16:42

lavers. i think the shoes is preference. people can get there symp stuff just as good with lavers. prob just someting about the way you do it. (not saying ur doing it wrong...i cant even do it)

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 14 Apr 2005 16:44

There is no "New Balance CT 420"; the shoe you are talking about is the "New Balance CT 520".

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 14 Apr 2005 16:53

Mike you're crazy..

Tim, yea I understand they are still doable, I think you missed my point totally though, I want to converse about having an adequate sole to compensate for the action the freestyler is doing. I was just using symp as an obvious example.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 14 Apr 2005 17:04

You don't seriously have something called the ct420 do you ?

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 14 Apr 2005 17:07

well thats what my shoes tongue says (courtesy of a felt-tipped marker)

but seriously though, how long do you guys think the Adidas Rod Laver will be the shoe of choice for the avid freestyle footbagger?

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 14 Apr 2005 17:29

Whatever... I seriously think 420 is one of the stupidest, most sophomoric things I've ever heard. I cringe every time I hear anyone mention it.

On topic, I've never had any problem with the support in the Lavers. I've always played in the stock insoles and, on quite a few occaisons, without any insoles at all.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 14 Apr 2005 17:33

OK here is why I think this is such a big issue. I discovered when I switched from lavers to an alternative that I enjoyed a HUGE increase in my progression.
I now realise that I am able to play FAR better in my climas than I can in my Lavers and I feel bad for people who are having troubles with footbag that they don't realise may be related to their shoe choice.

Since Lavers have no grip I have no confidence in them and I don't feel nearly as in control while playing. It's a shame that some people (basically everyone) are unwilling to even try something else because they may find that another shoe works better for them.

I can imagine myself in a world where I hadn't tried a different shoe, I now know in which ways a laver holds me back but without the knowledge gained from trying something else I wouldn't have known to blame the shoe.

I am not going to preach in favor of any one shoe, I think that there are several that can work but it takes a little creative thinking and trial and error to find something that works for you.

If you try every shoe out there and still love the Lavers, GREAT!, but don't kick yourself in the balls by not giving open mindedness a chance when it comes to shoe selection.

itsanother · Post by **itsanother** » 14 Apr 2005 17:41

anybody have a link to a page about climas?
i dont even know about them?

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 14 Apr 2005 17:47

wolfpac444 wrote:Whatever... I seriously think 420 is one of the stupidest, most sophomoric things I've ever heard. I cringe every time I hear anyone mention it.

I'm sorry

release the hatred, embrace the love!! I love everything!

edit: for an athletic shoe the laver seems so mediocre, there has to be more shoes out there we don't know of.. I know prices are another issue but im totally willing to dish out a bit more cash to have a much better shoe.

HG · Post by HG » 14 Apr 2005 17:52

my CT 520's are way better for me than lavers. My knees and ankles hurt after every session, and now i can virtually play for as long as i please without any hurt.

Also, the toes are way better! They have tiny toe walls that dont get in the way at all, and its almost impossible to drop a toe stall on them.

I am a firm believer that lavers are one of the best for surfaces, but the absolute worst shoe for you and your body.

itsanother · Post by **itsanother** » 14 Apr 2005 17:58

wait the climas that mosher was talking about. are there really called climacools??? cause if they are then.. DAMN how do you play in those i just a pic and wth thats a bad footbag shoe isnt it? i dont relaly know but it didnt look too good.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 14 Apr 2005 18:02

itsanother wrote:wait the climas that mosher was talking about. are there really called climacools??? cause if they are then.. DAMN how do you play in those i just a pic and wth thats a bad footbag shoe isnt it? i dont relaly know but it didnt look too good.

There are like... 800 different models of Climacools out there.

798 of them are complete shit for footbag and should be avoided like the plague.

I play in a shoe that no one else is using yet, I think it's the best climacool after ALOT of modding, I definately don't recomend it.

The Climacool I (original) is the model that the players in Finland that play in Climas use. Most people fill in whatever gap there is in the arch with some sort of filler.

I used a wall of shoe goo on my first pair, it was stiff and resilient. I have silicone caulking as the arch filler in my current ones and that works dandy too, though its much rubberier.

Do a search for Climacool and there will be a bunch of threads.

I don't like recomending shoes to people anymore because then they go out and get the wrong pair or they get the right one and then don't know how to mod it and they don't have the right tools and blah blah blah.

Try the CT 520, you can shred in it box stock.

ShredOnLawn · Post by **ShredOnLawn** » 14 Apr 2005 18:42

New Balance gave me blisters all over and did not mold to my feet.

I too sometimes play in Lavers without any insoles at all and have no problems from it.

The BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD ALWAYS USES LAVERS!

JIM PENSKE even LIKES them, although I am routing for Tom Mosher to get that Shoe engineering job and be the first to create a new shoe for footbag that will be mass produced creating a sort of super hack players that learn on the right shoes in the day of Tomorrows Future.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 14 Apr 2005 20:06

Lon, thats comment is partially correct, I think all the best players have played in lavers, but Vasek atleast has used g-units and alot of good players have used other shoes.
Also if your one of the best player in the world then clearly you have been playing a while, and back when you started playing, lavers where all there was, and most of the older players are resisitant to changing to a new shoe, maybe lol.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 14 Apr 2005 20:15

The pains are caused by a lack of strength in the support muscles of your leg, not the shoe itself. A shoe with no cushioning could make this worse, but really if you have strong and coordinated enough muscles in your legs (AND the rest of your body), the kind of shoe you use shouldn't really make a difference. If all you do is play footbag, you're just working the same muscles over and over and over again. Definitely try crosstraining or working them out in a conventional way in addition to footbag.
Also, it's clearly not just the shoe at fault, so someone can lay off the Laver stake-burnings for a while. Do you see Vasek suffering from shin splints? Honza, Ales, Felix, Juho, Jim, Yves, Pete, or Dexter? (Actually, some of them might, so I'll stuff my foot in my mouth if they speak up). It's not the Lavers that are bad, it's the strength in your legs, which can be remedied by exercising something other than your technique a few times a week.

And Tom, about your playing worse in Lavers tirade, how often do you try to play in Lavers? Ever longer than an hour or so at a time? I think it's common knowledge that it would take a couple weeks to get used to such a drastic shoe change, at the least. It seems like the majority of the footbag population does just fine playing in Lavers, even with toe walls (Crazy Glue)!

Edit:

but Vasek atleast has used g-units and alot of good players have used other shoes.

Ehhh, I dunno, Vasek just used Eli's G-Units for like an hour, I don't know if that really counts. And maybe those Dunbar's he was seen in for a while (TCL), before I guess he realized they were crap or something? He always seems to go those original Lavers, because they're the most sweetly broken-in beauties every to grace our time.

itsanother · Post by **itsanother** » 14 Apr 2005 20:33

I am routing for Tom Mosher to get that Shoe engineering job and be the first to create a new shoe for footbag that will be mass produced creating a sort of super hack players that learn on the right shoes in the day of Tomorrows Future.

GO MOSHER!!!

and it kinda makes me jealous... cause i want to start right off with the greatest shoes haha.

oh yea i just thought if Mosher gets started on that project, doesnt the ceo of the company have to recieve like alot of people that want it (so he knows he'll make money). then we would all have to email him. So my point is... everyone better get ready to email. cause i think a big company like that would need a SHITload of people that want a certain shoe OR the person designing it (Mosher) just has to be fucking rich.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 14 Apr 2005 20:52

I swear I will make this happen. It is my destiny.