X > Pendulum, one trick?

JoshMan01 · Post by **JoshMan01** » 15 Apr 2005 12:07

Not to me. A xbody pendulum set is more difficult than doing a clipper. I'm sure you noticed with your pendulum barfly. As a set it actually gives less adds than if it was separated. xbody pendulum > pdx mirage 3 > 3 then pendulum pdx mirage gives 4 total.... it isn't add hunting, calling it a separate move is though.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 15 Apr 2005 12:19

Prenz · Post by **Prenz** » 15 Apr 2005 14:15

Seriously it all comes down to this, plain and simple.

WHY IS A PENDULUM WORTH 2 ADDS??

One for the swing, and the final add is for the toe delay when you catch and seal the move. Whatever you do in between, adds to the move. You wanna catch ur pendulum in a legover? Good its 3 adds. You wanna spin before you toe delay it? 3 adds again.

Whoever said the pendulum ends when it leaves your foot... ridiculous. You tell me why it's worth 2 adds then. Obviously the first add aint for the initial catch. As everyone and their dog knows, that first catch contributed to the adds of the previous move.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 15 Apr 2005 14:20

Prenz · Post by **Prenz** » 15 Apr 2005 14:23

Flex: Yeah the 3>4 makes perfect sense.

Whether you let it fall over your head and do a move in front, or keep it in the back (i.e. setting crossbody), the pendulum is so obviously a set. It's a set worth one add much like a pixie or anything else.

Pixie: 2 add trick (because it implies you only do a toe stall after the pixie)
Pendulum: 2 add trick (because it ... after the pendulum)

Pixie legover: 3 adds
Pendulum legover: 3 adds

To people that STILL think the pendulum ends when you release it, rather than when you seal the move with the following delay, lets follow out ur logic.

If you swing a pendulum wildly and it goes flying into the next door neighbors yard, you just did a 2-add trick. Nice!

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 15 Apr 2005 14:32

JoshMan01 · Post by **JoshMan01** » 15 Apr 2005 14:43

More of a pendulum triple spinning toe. Assumming you didn't let it hit the ground.

Prenz · Post by **Prenz** » 15 Apr 2005 14:44

Ha... now you're talking.

Seriously does anybody out there still believe that a) a pendulum is not a set b) a pendulum can "finish" a move or c) a pendulum is 2 adds no matter what.

If so then let speak up, let me trace your logic to its ridiculous conclusions, and make fun of you.

If a pendulum can finish a move, then so can a wrap! (no)

If the pendulum aint a set, well what do you call something that launches a footbag into the air, and isn't worth a dime of adds until sealed with the end delay?

If a pendulum can only ever be a move in itself... please explain to me where the 2 adds in the trick come from. If you tell me its from the initial toe catch, you're contradicting footbag "rules" because you know that the intial delay counts towars the LAST move not the present one. If you tell me its for the catch at the end, you've just told me the pendulum was a set.

No offense to anybody by the way, I just have a pretty aggressive argumentative style. Go footbaggers.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 15 Apr 2005 14:57

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Apr 2005 15:03

I think pendulum can be tacked onto the end of a trick, but it is not a set.

[from footbag.org
Pendulum
2 adds /snip/ [del] [dex]
]
Once the bag leaves the foot, the next trick begins and you get your pendulum add tacked onto the first trick if there was a first trick,but not the next trick.

The smear example from damon, I see as 4 >3. Not 3>4.

Is eclipse a set ? it is the same for the purposes of this discussion because it moves the bag from point A to point B, tacks that add onto the trick, and once the bag leaves the foot, you have set your next trick.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Apr 2005 15:09

No really, is there anybody out there that think eclipse is a set, and if someone hits spinning eclipse, it's really a spinning inside delay and a set for the next trick ?

Pendulum does contradict the rules. It's an old school trick mashed into the add system. It's harder than a toe stall so they just gave it two adds.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 15 Apr 2005 15:14

Prenz · Post by **Prenz** » 15 Apr 2005 15:20

Tsiangkun wrote:I think pendulum can be tacked onto the end of a trick, but it is not a set.

Dude, so you must agree, according to ur logic, than if you wildly swing a pendulum and do not catch the bag, then it still counts for adds.

Ridiculous man.

What would you say if one were just holding a bag in the toe stall position, swings it back with a pendulum, and finally recatches the bag in the toe stall.

PLEASE tell me why that was a two-add trick. You're going to realize that you cannot and that you are wrong.

The second add comes from the final toe catch. That makes a pendulum a set. You can decide to do a legover instead of a basic toe catch and bang, 3 adds.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Apr 2005 15:23

I know you weren't around back in the day, but pendulum was originally a fancy pass.

It does not fit into the add system, it's goofy trick that just gets two adds because it's hard than the toe stall, but it does indeed derive it's add count from the initial contact and the follow through motion, IMO.

Yes Damon, it's damn near impossible to tack pendulum onto the end of tricks smoothly.

WHy does a walk over get two adds smarty pants ? huh ? huh ? oh, that's right, way back in the day it was just assigned two adds for no real reason other than it was a trick that needed to be mashed into the add networl.

Prenz · Post by **Prenz** » 15 Apr 2005 15:29

Here's the best way I can explain it.

Imagine viewing footbag moves as a collection of still photos. Whenever the still photo resembles a delay position (Clipper, inside, toe, whatever), a move has ended and one has begun.

That is why an ecplise is it's own move. If you were to examine the still photographs, you'd see an inside delay and a clipper delay. Hence the move is sealed.

A rake? The move cannot POSSIBLY end when you "touch" the rake, but rather when you complete it. Everybody agrees with this. That is because, looking at the still photographs, you would only see the toe stall position AFTER the rake. You couldn't POSSIBLY just chill in the "xbd toe catch" position.

Now a pendulum. MOVES END AND BEGIN WHEN A STILL PHOTOGRAPH WOULD REVEAL A TOE STALL!!! This is at the beginning of the move, not the end. Completely opposite of the rake. You could not possibly just chill with the bag delayed once it is behind you. There is no stall position. Hence the move continues and the pendulum is a set.

Do you really disagree that moves are divided at the toe stall position? You are trying to say that a move ends from a position where your foot is behind you, and you couldnt possibly stall the bag like that.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Apr 2005 15:34

The trick ends when the bag leaves the foot.

Eclipse, walk over, pendulum, rake . . . all the same in my eyes. The motion is continued and fluid, and so for historical reasons the trick isn't over until the bag is set in play again.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 15 Apr 2005 15:35

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Apr 2005 15:42

Prenz wrote:If you were to examine the still photographs, you'd see an inside delay and a clipper delay.

So it's a spinning inside stall (2adds) followed by a motion to a clipper stall (3 adds)

I just don't see it that way.

Prenz · Post by **Prenz** » 15 Apr 2005 15:42

I can't even believe this discussion is still going on.

You say the trick ends when the bag leaves your foot. Thats why the trick ends after a pixie set right? NO.

I really don't see how you think a pendulum set and a pixie set are all that different.

a) You can start from a standstill toe stall
b) You begin your leg rising and perform a dexterity
c) You release the bag on its way up.

No a rake is not in the same category because you cannot start from a standstill.