X > Pendulum, one trick?
And that trick is over once you set it, and does not continue on to the next trick. Further more, since you stopped, you don't get the two adds for a pendulum because you 'the'd the trick.Prenz wrote:WHO CARES IF THE INITIAL TOE CATCH HAD TO BE FANCY! You still just caught a toe stall with some fanciness, and then YOU SET IT!
The pendulum trick IS to catch the bag out of the air and in a continous motion carry it and release the bag behind you. If the motion stops, the trick is 'the' .
If you think it's cool to stop at a toe stall and then carry the bag to other positions, just accept the zero add embellishment and have fun with it. If you try claiming it's an extra add, your hunting. The bag never left the foot and it's not a trick. It's waiving your leg around with the bag on your foot.
I stated on page one that a Pendulum can be appended to a trick.
However, after rethinking and reading this thread, I'm with Prenz on this
one.
I've read this thread until the end of page 2, and concerning the
debate whether the "special" tricks like rake, pendulum and eclipse
fall under the same category, I do think they don't.
Pendulum is special in it's own.
Rake + Eclipse:
The position you're in when the bag leaves the foot are standard "trick start"
positions. Hence, the trick ends when the bag leaves the foot again.
Thus, both are a component which are done at the end of a trick.
Pendulum:
The position you're in when the bag leaves the foot is absolutely
unique, you set it behind you. Which leaves space for more components
to squeeze in before you stall the bag again.
The only problem is the definition of the time the bag is on the foot -
the time before the catch and the set - I think this is the problem
why Pendulum doesn't fit under any category. If you say the swing is
still part of the first trick, then you'd have a Pdx Mirage Pendulum.
If you count the swing as the beginning of the next move, you'd have
a Pdx Mirage>Pendulous anything. The pendulum starts in a normal toe
stall position and is then carried behind you. That's why Pendulum
is more of a set than an ending. A Rake, however, ends in the normal toe
stall/set position, AFTER the swing, making it a component that is done
at the end of the set, BEFORE you end in the basic end/start position.
Agree?
However, after rethinking and reading this thread, I'm with Prenz on this
one.
I've read this thread until the end of page 2, and concerning the
debate whether the "special" tricks like rake, pendulum and eclipse
fall under the same category, I do think they don't.
Pendulum is special in it's own.
Rake + Eclipse:
The position you're in when the bag leaves the foot are standard "trick start"
positions. Hence, the trick ends when the bag leaves the foot again.
Thus, both are a component which are done at the end of a trick.
Pendulum:
The position you're in when the bag leaves the foot is absolutely
unique, you set it behind you. Which leaves space for more components
to squeeze in before you stall the bag again.
The only problem is the definition of the time the bag is on the foot -
the time before the catch and the set - I think this is the problem
why Pendulum doesn't fit under any category. If you say the swing is
still part of the first trick, then you'd have a Pdx Mirage Pendulum.
If you count the swing as the beginning of the next move, you'd have
a Pdx Mirage>Pendulous anything. The pendulum starts in a normal toe
stall position and is then carried behind you. That's why Pendulum
is more of a set than an ending. A Rake, however, ends in the normal toe
stall/set position, AFTER the swing, making it a component that is done
at the end of the set, BEFORE you end in the basic end/start position.
Agree?
bjoern
Munich Footbag
Munich Footbag
I think that the first one who gets good at incorporating pendulums in their shred gets to decide the rules. 
But seriously, I disagree with your stance about treating pendulum as a special case, ebo. In a sentence, my argument is this: the way we define what is done with the bag during contact must be the same definition for all moves, and such things as the delay add, osis, and eclipse point directly at the "end of move" interpretation.
But seriously, I disagree with your stance about treating pendulum as a special case, ebo. In a sentence, my argument is this: the way we define what is done with the bag during contact must be the same definition for all moves, and such things as the delay add, osis, and eclipse point directly at the "end of move" interpretation.
chris dean
Okay....well I didn't read 99% of the replies, because holy crap -- four pages!!! Normally this is the sort of subject where I would be all like -- of course they're seperate moves -- it's a stepping set and then a pendulum (like what Jon said)...HOWEVER...if I recall, jobs for pendulum BEGINS with a stall.
Let's make a comparison. Pendulum begins in toe stall. Mirage begins in an in-to-out dexterity. All moves are, simply, intentional combinations of adds (move elements), and all moves can be adjusted, and added to, with the combination of other elements. A stepping set can be added to a pendulum just as easily as a stepping set can be added to a mirage. Pendulum is a very unique freestyle move in that it BEGINS with the element that most moves END in.
(The jobs for Pendulum is confusing, and possibly outdated, however it is common sense that the move begins with a toe stall. Footbag.org defines pendulum as a delay and then a dexterity, I believe pendulum and rake, both, USED to combine these two elements. I think the modern definition of pendulum may be the combination of a delay add and a body add. This is really irrelevant in this discussion, however I needed a concise definition of the move in order to continue with my example. Onward:)
Pendulum does not end until (by my revamped definition) the body add (reverse "rake" motion) is performed. Therefore any elements can be added before the initial stall, of the original pendulum move, to create a more complex pendulum move. A stepping set, added before the (initial element) in-to-out dexterity of an opposite mirage, is a stepping opposite mirage. A stepping set, before the (initial element) toe stall of an opposite pendulum, is a stepping opposite pendulum.
clip > op in [DEX] > op in [DEX] > op toe [DEL] = stepping opposite mirage
clip > op in [DEX] > op toe [DEL] > (pendulum) [BOD] = stepping opposite pendulum
Supplementally, pendulum is simply the reverse of a rake -- rake contains the same add combination, and virtually the same jobs. Rake begins with a toe stall. COUNTLESS moves have been adjusted to contain a rake after their initial jobs -- how is pendulum any different?
EDIT 2: Okay, I've skimmed most of the whole thread now. Joshman and Prenz, no offence, but those are some of the most nonsensical arguements I've read on this forum. Aren't you listening to what Tsiangkun is saying? Pendulum STARTS with a toe stall :p
Let's make a comparison. Pendulum begins in toe stall. Mirage begins in an in-to-out dexterity. All moves are, simply, intentional combinations of adds (move elements), and all moves can be adjusted, and added to, with the combination of other elements. A stepping set can be added to a pendulum just as easily as a stepping set can be added to a mirage. Pendulum is a very unique freestyle move in that it BEGINS with the element that most moves END in.
(The jobs for Pendulum is confusing, and possibly outdated, however it is common sense that the move begins with a toe stall. Footbag.org defines pendulum as a delay and then a dexterity, I believe pendulum and rake, both, USED to combine these two elements. I think the modern definition of pendulum may be the combination of a delay add and a body add. This is really irrelevant in this discussion, however I needed a concise definition of the move in order to continue with my example. Onward:)
Pendulum does not end until (by my revamped definition) the body add (reverse "rake" motion) is performed. Therefore any elements can be added before the initial stall, of the original pendulum move, to create a more complex pendulum move. A stepping set, added before the (initial element) in-to-out dexterity of an opposite mirage, is a stepping opposite mirage. A stepping set, before the (initial element) toe stall of an opposite pendulum, is a stepping opposite pendulum.
clip > op in [DEX] > op in [DEX] > op toe [DEL] = stepping opposite mirage
clip > op in [DEX] > op toe [DEL] > (pendulum) [BOD] = stepping opposite pendulum
Supplementally, pendulum is simply the reverse of a rake -- rake contains the same add combination, and virtually the same jobs. Rake begins with a toe stall. COUNTLESS moves have been adjusted to contain a rake after their initial jobs -- how is pendulum any different?
EDIT 2: Okay, I've skimmed most of the whole thread now. Joshman and Prenz, no offence, but those are some of the most nonsensical arguements I've read on this forum. Aren't you listening to what Tsiangkun is saying? Pendulum STARTS with a toe stall :p
Last edited by Muffinman on 16 Apr 2005 13:00, edited 2 times in total.
Everyone who disagrees with me is talking out my lack of consistency because I'm not grouping in pendulum with rakes and eclipses and all that.
Here's some consistency for you:
Every freestyle trick you can name "ENDS" in what could be a stall position. You tell me one that doesn't. Rakes end in the position that is a toe stall. Eclipses end in the position that is a clipper. Walk-over's end in a position that is a clipper. Reverse hop-overs cannot be a set because they've already ended in a position that COULD BE held still: an inside stall.
Similarly, when you do a pendulum, the previous move (i.e. stepping set followed by pendulum) could also END when your body is in a position that could be held as a stall: the toe stall. This is before the actual dexterity and set of the trick occurs.
Anyway its looking at 2 sides of the same coin. And no tsiang I don't actually interupt pendulums at the toe stall position... it's called the magical world of hypotheticality. Say it nice n' slow and clap out the syllables.
Here's some consistency for you:
Every freestyle trick you can name "ENDS" in what could be a stall position. You tell me one that doesn't. Rakes end in the position that is a toe stall. Eclipses end in the position that is a clipper. Walk-over's end in a position that is a clipper. Reverse hop-overs cannot be a set because they've already ended in a position that COULD BE held still: an inside stall.
Similarly, when you do a pendulum, the previous move (i.e. stepping set followed by pendulum) could also END when your body is in a position that could be held as a stall: the toe stall. This is before the actual dexterity and set of the trick occurs.
Anyway its looking at 2 sides of the same coin. And no tsiang I don't actually interupt pendulums at the toe stall position... it's called the magical world of hypotheticality. Say it nice n' slow and clap out the syllables.
Craig Kowal- representin' Ivy League footbag baby. Right...
Okay, I see what you're saying. But by your logic, then, pendulum doesn't exist. Chris Dean's post, with all the bolds, a few posts up, pracitcally describes the reality of this dilemna. Pendulum doesn't exist because it lacks the consistency of practical jobs notation. Therefore the majority of our arguement here is irrelevant in the context of the initial question -- this is futile unless we FIX the definition of "pendulum".
Chad hits stepping chest bump on video, and it was most definately not a stall position.Prenz wrote:Every freestyle trick you can name "ENDS" in what could be a stall position.
I believe if you don't pull the bag out of the air and continue to perform the trick in one fluid motion, it is not a pendulum, and gets no adds. It's just a cool way to set the next trick if you start the motion from a toe stall, just like a gimp or a chest bump. I don't see anything involved with that set that takes any talent whatsoever. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, can hit that set if the bag is already on the foot. It's basically a non trick, and claiming it's a pendulum is fraudulent.
Just claim it as a zero add element like gimping and get on with it.
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JoshMan01
- Shredaholic
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- Joined: 26 Nov 2004 13:28
- Location: Painesville(near Cleveland), Ohio, USA
No, but it could be a stall. He said in what COULD be a stall position.Tsiangkun wrote:Chad hits stepping chest bump on video, and it was most definately not a stall position.Prenz wrote:Every freestyle trick you can name "ENDS" in what could be a stall position.
Just clarifying.
My original statement about pendulum being a set wasn't about whether it is or not, but that it should be.... being the reverse of a rake(which ends moves)
Edit: I've slightly changed my position. Pendulum should be a component in some way. I don't care if it's ending or set, but having it a trick ending like a rake seems to be more acceptable to everyone.
Josh Lewis
okay.
I just sessioned with my new ipod shuffle, and hit some pendulum tricks.
Stepping pendulum, atomic pendulum, shooting pendulum, pixie pendulum, and spinning pendulum... fogendulum was really hard to get the catch right, as was blurendulum and barragindingulum. Playing out of the pendulum , I hit whirl, butterflies, osis,DLO, and was close to torque.
I'm not a fan of these tricks, and probably wont ever play with the concept again. The moves just destroy the rhythm of a run,, both into and out of the trick. It's just a goofy concept. Maybe people who spin or duck would enjoy it more, since they do other tricks with higher sets.
I just sessioned with my new ipod shuffle, and hit some pendulum tricks.
Stepping pendulum, atomic pendulum, shooting pendulum, pixie pendulum, and spinning pendulum... fogendulum was really hard to get the catch right, as was blurendulum and barragindingulum. Playing out of the pendulum , I hit whirl, butterflies, osis,DLO, and was close to torque.
I'm not a fan of these tricks, and probably wont ever play with the concept again. The moves just destroy the rhythm of a run,, both into and out of the trick. It's just a goofy concept. Maybe people who spin or duck would enjoy it more, since they do other tricks with higher sets.
Good, so you'll be in a great position to answer this:
Did doing a pendulum make the "previous trick" more difficult, or the following trick?
The answer to this question should be enough proof as to why I think pendulum should be a set.
Whether you do a pendulum or just a toe stall at the end of a move, isn't it more or less the same difficulty providing you have your pendulums dialed?
But doing a trick out of a pendulum is TOUGH! Even a pendulum>mirage is much much harder than a toe set to mirage. The pendulum "SET" has made the mirage more difficult. In footbag in general, AFAIK, the previous move does NOT contribute to the difficulty of the move to follow. But a pendulum DOES, so it is NOT the previous move! It makes the move to follow HARDER, so its a set!
Still not convinced?
Anyway I don't think there's anything "goofy" about a pendulum. It looks like a feat of physics everytime, and there is no awkwardness to the motion if done right. It is something that seems like you should do with a footbag.
Did doing a pendulum make the "previous trick" more difficult, or the following trick?
The answer to this question should be enough proof as to why I think pendulum should be a set.
Whether you do a pendulum or just a toe stall at the end of a move, isn't it more or less the same difficulty providing you have your pendulums dialed?
But doing a trick out of a pendulum is TOUGH! Even a pendulum>mirage is much much harder than a toe set to mirage. The pendulum "SET" has made the mirage more difficult. In footbag in general, AFAIK, the previous move does NOT contribute to the difficulty of the move to follow. But a pendulum DOES, so it is NOT the previous move! It makes the move to follow HARDER, so its a set!
Still not convinced?
Anyway I don't think there's anything "goofy" about a pendulum. It looks like a feat of physics everytime, and there is no awkwardness to the motion if done right. It is something that seems like you should do with a footbag.
Craig Kowal- representin' Ivy League footbag baby. Right...
Btw.. I'm talking about the full pendulum that goes over your head and back in front when I say something like pendulum>mirage.
Sure doing a pendulum at the end of a trick is slightly harder than just doing a toe stall... but this difficulty increase does not even compare to what it does to the move you do after.
To treat a mirage done out of a pendulum as only a two-add trick is ludacris. It is so much more intuitive to give that trick the [BOD] add for the set you have performed.
Sure doing a pendulum at the end of a trick is slightly harder than just doing a toe stall... but this difficulty increase does not even compare to what it does to the move you do after.
To treat a mirage done out of a pendulum as only a two-add trick is ludacris. It is so much more intuitive to give that trick the [BOD] add for the set you have performed.
Craig Kowal- representin' Ivy League footbag baby. Right...
I really don't like this comment. Providing you have ANYTHING dialed, it's not difficult anymore, period.The Freestyler Formerly Known as Prenz wrote:Whether you do a pendulum or just a toe stall at the end of a move, isn't it more or less the same difficulty providing you have your pendulums dialed?
That's like saying, "Well, Smear is no harder than Mirage, providing you have your pixie set dialed." For me, that is definitely true. I guess Smear is only 2-adds.
So since Pendulum is clearly ONLY a pendulum if the bag comes up and over your head from behind you, what do you call all th shit that Evan Lovely does, setting it cross-body. Essentially, a xbd-rake in reverse. Is that not a pendulum anymore? ...Because Pendulous Far Legover is just as easy as Clipper set Far Legover. Well, providing you have your pendulums dialed.
And if you're talking strictly "the height of the set makes the trick harder", should we implement a system where if you set the bag over 6 feet high, you get another add?
Toe > 6 feet high (HGT) >> Op in-out (DEX) > Op Toe (DEL) = Up High Mirage. 3 adds.
That would be the most convoluted scoring system imaginable.
And by the way, I clapped out maybe two syllables before I realized it wasn't even a word.
- Kevin R.
F = G*((m1*m2)/r^2)
Know thy enemy.
F = G*((m1*m2)/r^2)
Know thy enemy.
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JoshMan01
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That's nice... you say no offense then follow it up directly with something that can only be taken as an insult. You're suppose to say something potentially offensive that has some other reason for being there. You should've just cut straight to aren't you listening etc.Erik Chan wrote:Joshman and Prenz, no offence, but those are some of the most nonsensical arguements I've read on this forum. Aren't you listening to what Tsiangkun is saying? Pendulum STARTS with a toe stall :p
Anyway... i wasn't argueing what a pendulum is but about what it should be and that it would start after the toe stall. I'm not going to just go "Oh Tsiangkun said blah blah, so it has to be that way now" I recently changed my mind decided it should be a trick ending much like a rake is. Also that you need to catch it far enough in front to count in the same way you need to catch a rake far enough back. I think i agree with Tsiangkun now, if he said it could be an ending... I'm not reading all that crap again.
Josh Lewis
It's really about the same either way. It's really hard to snag the pendulum, although after a few tries I figured out the sweet spot. It's also different to play out of, cause the bag just come sailing into view.
When I was trying them, it felt like it wasn't part of the tricks. Maybe it's a two no matter what and can't be linked, like jon said he heard a long while ago.
When I was trying them, it felt like it wasn't part of the tricks. Maybe it's a two no matter what and can't be linked, like jon said he heard a long while ago.
