Let`s start thinking about Footbag in the Olympics

[Seath]

tournament circuts. great idea... ottawa will be one host city haha.

[FootbagginBum]

It would help in getting more people for the canadian federation thing I bet.

One important note that removes a road block:

Shred 30 is calculated rather than judged. As can rippin run be if the official nitty gritty is always applied. This conquers the "don't want knew things to judge" attitude the olympic committee has supposedly expressed. Routines do epitomize freestyle, but I'm sure with time we could get a format to replace them without judgement calls. It would take trancending the add sysytem, which was supposedly something that was supposed to be already taking place, but I think we could work them back in in some form eventually. Does anyone want to comment on how Scott D.'s "Flow" format may fit? I do not know how it works, or if its judged, but thats one more format that has been tried out that I can't do the thinking on.

So it is still possible though; x games is not the highest goal, just a nice one in the middle.

2 more questions: Which (if any) sports are in both x games and olympics? Snowboarding is I believe...any others?

And, what about just trying to find ways to make our own tournaments bigger? Worlds this year will be bigger than ever. Won't it concievably have more than a thousand people attending soon? the growth rate only continues to increase, maybe if we can find sponsorship and spread the sport like we're talking about and get more people donating to the IFPA, we can get our current competitions big enough so we don't need outside help (even though olympic recognition is prestigious). Imagine, a week long 3 hour a day coverage of "THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS OF FOOTBAG" on espn? If we got our own good media coverage, would we be so in need of more than that? Then we could keep our formats and potheads could still play (for better or worse). And we'd get more camera time, which would lead to a faster growth rate of the sport, even if we got in on camera initally with less people than would be needed for x games or olympics.

And heres a last extra question (that some may not like): What about the idea of getting rid of open competition at worlds in its current form, and setting up a tier sytem like most sports that would mean there would have to be national tournaments and say the top 5 competitors from each country advance to Worlds. Anyone could still come, and have a great time, and we could leave some things like sick 3 open to all, but have official national champions competing against each other for the world title. This would give many more big tournaments for coverage (all the nationals) and then if people won nationals they could be sponsored to get to worlds. It would cost some up and comers more to get to both worlds and Nationals, but at least there'd be more tournaments than worlds that are big for sure. We wouldn't have to worry about turnout. Like Ithought there would be tons of people at CSS, but not so many this year; Nationals would always have a good turnout, and kids would be allowed to go to nationals, and if they won, their parents couldn't say, no you can't to worlds. I think making sure other events than worlds have a huge cooperative turnout is a necessary step to making the sport bigger, and in Worlds current form, there is no neccesity for this. (I understand the cons of this whole plan to, mostly money, but will let someone else comment on my ideas)

Wow do I ramble. Lets keep thinking about this stuff though. Later.
Bum

[footbinc]

loren,

I like the idea of the tiered entry system to certain tournaments!!!

Cheers

[Blackend]

Section 52 of the Charter, entitled "Admission of Sports, Disciplines, and Events". This is the section that lists the requirements that must be met before any sport can be considered for inclusion in the Olympic Games. I read this section very carefully, and it appears that these are the minimum requirements:


Minimum Requirements to Be An Olympic Sport


The Sport Must be Widely Practiced
"Only sports widely practiced by men in at least seventy-five countries and on four continents, and by women in at least forty countries and on three continents, may be included in the programme of the Games of the Olympiad." For Winter sports, the criteria is 25 countries on 3 continents.
(Olympic Charter Section 52, Paragraph 1.1.1)



The Sport Must Have International Standing
"To be included in the programme of the Olympic Games, events must have a recognized international standing both numerically and geographically, and have been included at least twice in world or continental championships."
(Olympic Charter Section 52, Paragraph 3.2)


There Must be Drug Testing
"Only sports that apply the Olympic Movement Anti-Doping Code and in particular perform out-of-competition testing in accordance with the rules of the World Anti-Doping Agency will be included in the programme of the Olympic Games."
(Olympic Charter Section 52, Paragraph 1.1.3)

It would be SICK if footbag were in the Olympics. Only problem for me is I'd never pass the drug testing, though.

[junkyardjew]

I still don't really think it's worth talking about getting into the olympics, but i DO think it's important to talk about how we can improve our own competitions, and the tiered entry idea is the best i've heard in a while.

Why don't we have national champions already? We only need one national event a year to decide who's the champion, or even a couple regionals. If the winner of the "east canada regional" heads to the "west canada regional" and wins that too, clearly he's the best player in canada, ergo the canadian champion. I think it would be good for everyone to have more role models with clearly defined placements in a national hierarchy. That way all the pressure to be 'the best' doesn't fall on one person (ie, vasek).

[idain]

I know it may go against many people's sensibilities, but perhaps the best way to go about promoting footbag would be with a large corporate sponsor. Namely, Adidas. Adidas has the resources to promote the sport in a major way, and, by way of the Lavers, has a huge potential bonus should footbag catch on. Furthermore, should other companies see Adidas cashing in on Lavers for footbag, perhaps, say, Nike would put out a shoe specifically for footbag to compete with the Lavers. This would mean corporate competition, which would mean commercials, which would mean exposure.

This of course may not be feasible without a larger footbag base. I don't know, but it seems to me... Sponsorship = money = exposure = more footbaggers = more exposure = good.

[peanutbuterboy]

..and if they do that we get a better footbag shoe. Bitchen. Lets start

[professor]

I agree with David, this is what will have to happen for footbag to get even a little exposure in the media. It's sad, but nowadays you can't do much without $$$ and large corporations are the only place to get enough money.

Well I think whatever the decision(s) is(are) on how we can make footbag bigger we all need to get behind it. We won't be able to get anything done if we all want to do our own ideas, we all need to come to a decision and stand by it.

"We'll either stand together, or hang (a.k.a. shred forever in our garages) seperately."

[Seath]

I think some of you arent realizing certain things though. Yes we obviously need big name sponsors so that we can have funding to promote footbag more, but at this point in time nobody knows what a footbag is and no big name corporate sponsors are going to give us any money because it wont really result with a good ROI for them. We need to make people know about footbag. We are too small to impress big name sponsors with our advertising capability because nobody (exadgerating) pays attention to footbag except the players.. We need fans. We need exposure, footbag has a huuuuge long way to go..

I do 110% support a tiered world championships. We need to appear more professional and established.

We all need to start (or promote) local footbag clubs and advertise on our own budget and answer questions and show people how mind boggling footbag is. I've actually seen it start to break through around ottawa. Not that more people are wanting to play but way more people are starting to call it footbag just cuz that's how the schoolground talk is starting to sway.. I've had random strangers come up to me and ask if I was "that crazy guy" their friends saw.. I've even found out that there's pretty much a lineup of people waiting to by mr sandbags from this pot shop that I am selling sandbags to.. These are all good signs! I credit it to the fact that I tell everyone about footbag and I put up flyers and shit and play in public places and approach EVERYSINGLEFUCKINGHACKYSACKCIRCLE I SEE!

but ya.. We must spread the good word to EVERYONE.. NOW!! that'll solve so many sponsorship problems.. Why dont we loosely base footbag on a religion and force the believers (us) to spread the good word to every part of the globe!! THEN WE'LL HAVE POWER MUAHAHAHAHA.



train of thought derailed......

[FootbagginBum]

First, I demand this be made sticky; it CAN NOT be allowed to slip from our thoughts again.

I do use footbag as a religion: I do it more than anything else, I swear by it, and it brings me total bliss. I should right out some tenents and pass them on to Lon, Irish, and Kenny for review and edition.


I have figured out what our biggest roadblock is (not that it hasn't been mentioned before)...

We must get rid of FOOTBAG.COM

It sucks because the guy is so peaceful, but everything on that site is light years in the wrong direction... his extreme combos involve 2 adders.

How many of us found out about footbag through the web? I'd say more than half. So, taking into account that most people are stupid (average intelligence and below account for roughly 60%; thankfully the percentages of stupid footbaggers are much more lower) how many hackers (which are typically the stoned half of new recruits) do you figure thought "hmm, I wonder whats on footbag.com" and got stuck in a rut of thinking that rainbow jester was the hardest move, and never transcended hack when half of them would've had they seached google or typed .org instead of .com? Watching mulroney spin around a million times without dropping turns heads, but thinking the "tricks" you're already doing are the hardest just makes people think they're good and move on. WE MUST BE RID OF FOOTBAG.COM IF WE WISH TO SPREAD THE SPORT MORE. Now, no one should go hack the site or anything, the guy is all about peace and love, but we need to get Steve, Kenny, and/or John Stallburger to stand up for the sport in our names; they've been in it long enough to convince this guy that footbag is what we do more than what he does. He can keep his site, but he needs to be dethroned off his powerful urls.

For everyone who reads this, please make an effort to check this thread all the time, the more its on our thoughts, the more the footbag collective consciousness will push us in the right direction. I doubt that any of us can fully conceptualize what the power of large numbers working together an do...if anyone has specific documentary examples of this, please throw them in here to encourage the group to think about this postively on a consistant basis. I'm going to write a pleading email to steve and Kenny right now to take their precious time to read this whole thread and participate with us.

Thanks for reading, please don't ever skip things I write in important threads such as this. Peace.

Bum

[footbinc]

Granted, footbag.com isnt the greatest source of information for advanced or competitive footbag, but I think organization is still the greatest challenge we face.

How many of you/us or your clubs are actual organizations? Registered societies, non profits, for profits, whatever? (Im not being condesending:)Alberta Footbag is a registered non-profit )

How many of you/us have approached large corporations about event sponsorships?

I see alot of talk and shit here about x-games this, x-games that, but we need to start alot smaller than that. Sure we have worlds and some big tournaments (mostly in europe) but the entire thing needs to be a coordinated effort. We have no ranking system except whoever wins worlds. Net kinda has a ranking system, but not enough people attend enough events or get the sanctioning. So, here is the challenge, Put on a big event. Get a Big Sponsor. Go to more events. I know we are all poor, but such is the life of a premier athlete . Missoula got Red Bull, props to them. Its a start. Now lets work on expanding on that effort for a nationwide/continentwide series of events, call your local papers, issue press releases, stop talking and start doing.

Im tired of ranting.

Cheers

[webmaster]

...I think organization is still the greatest challenge we face.

Here, here, Ben, thanks for being the only person on this thread to actually seem to know what you're talking about.

"Promotion is to professional sports as Organization is to amateur sports."

We don't need promotion. We need organization. Olympics is an amateur competition. We are desperately trying to have footbag recognized as a serious sport, which has to start with amateur before we even begin to consider sponsors, promotions, money, etc

The non-profit purposes of IFPA are exactly that -- a place for people to put their time and money to help ensure the organization and fostering of competition and international organization around the sport, to get it Olympic recognition as a real sport. The Worlds and footbag.org website are the two big areas we've carved out for the first few years of operation, but there's a road map (maybe someone should actually talk to Chris Ott and others on the IFPA board) for taking it further. The fact is we have already used IFPA to bolster the world-wide footbag scene into at least 12 nationally-recognized footbag organizations around the globe. That's a start! We need to all rally around the flagpole of IFPA, else start another organization that everyone can rebel against (err, rally around), to get anywhere. That's the whole point of all the work we've done to date, and how we manage to pour cash and time year after year into these efforts.

Note: The concept of "Olympic recognition" is actually what we're talking about, not being spotlighted in the Olympic Games (tm) as an actual event. That is a huge morass of politics and money we will never want to deal with. But the goal of Olympic recognition is the dream we all share, I think. Or at least, most of us.

Now, don't pick nits 'cause this is 3 years old, but here's an example of the energy I and many others have put into this cause. It should be obvious but for some reason it's an uphill battle just to get people to join in the effort:

Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:55:27 -0800
To: [email protected]
From: Steve Goldberg <[email protected]>
Subject: [announce] The Biggest News Yet in Footbag

Footbag friends, family, and aficionados:

It's with intense pride that I announce another major milestone in the development of the sport of footbag. I know this message is long, but if you are even somewhat interested, you may skim through by looking at the section headers and just reading 1-2 paragraphs per section. If you're really not interested, don't complain -- just hit delete now!

BACKGROUND:

As many of you know, last year we announced the new IFPA (International Footbag Players' Association), a membership-based international governing body for the sport of footbag. The ultimate goals of the IFPA are:

(1) to provide consistency in footbag competition around the world,
(2) to educate the public about footbag on a global scale,
(3) to provide centralized assistance to players and footbag event
organizers (of various forms, see below), and
(4) to obtain recognition of the sport of footbag by the Olympics
(some time in the distant future).

In short, IFPA hopes to be the International Governing Body (IGB) of the sport of footbag, with players overseeing the administration of the sport through periodic elections and committee participation.

The above-stated Olympic goal may cause many people to shrug their shoulders. But, to make a long story short, the founders of the IFPA spent almost 9 years working on creating this organization, and came to find in the process that the best way to demonstrate that footbag is a true, global sport, is for it to pass the muster of Olympic recognition. (Note: "recognition" by the Olympics does not assume inclusion in actual Winter/Summer Olympic Games competitions themselves.)

At this point, many of you are asking, "What benefits do I get by joining IFPA?" Well, I ask in response that you simply wait a bit longer (patience is a virtue -- it's been almost 9 years, a few more weeks can't hurt ) We are very close to articulating IFPA member benefits; but if I tried to include all that here, this e-mail would become longer than it already is. That said, you can infer a lot about the benefits IFPA brings the sport (and you) by reading this message.

When we announced IFPA last summer (it officially launched with Worlds 2001), we were hoping for sanctioning from the U.S. government as a public charity under IRS article 501(c)(3) of the tax code. Designing our non-profit corporation so that we would suit the U.S. Government's strict requirements for charitable status (as an international amateur sports organization) was a significant task. We would have loved to be able to announce this all together last summer, but unfortunately the IRS moves very slowly, and we were left in limbo for much longer than we had anticipated.

THE BIG NEWS:

So, what happened this month? Well, after just under 9 years of work by a group of dedicated individuals (listed at the end of this message), the IFPA was just granted 501(c)(3) "public charity" status as an "international amateur sports organization" by the U.S. Government. (!!)

This is a very big deal for at least four major reasons (I could go on and on, but I will stick to 4 reasons):

(1) The U.S. Government's requirements for this particular category
of tax exemption for a sports organization are *incredibly* difficult
to meet. Most requests are ultimately rejected, unless the
organization has lawyers who can expertly craft the wording
and deal with the follow-up questions. But we did it ourselves,
with help from our friends, for almost no hard costs. For now,
through this complex application process, we've been able to show
the government that our sport deserves this status, and we
are being given an opportunity to prove it during a 4-year
period (the clock started in July, 2001). (Among the many
requirements is that we demonstrate a membership that is global,
not just a few people in California. This is one of many reasons
that we hope everyone on this list will support us by joining
right away. http://www.footbag.org/ifpa/join )

(2) 501(c)(3) status is the absolute best financial benefit the U.S.
Government will give a sports organization. With this certification,
most if not all of IFPA's operations are *tax-free*, and not
only that, we are seen as "charitable" and therefore all
donations towards our non-profit purposes are *tax-deductible*!
This opens up a world of potential donations -- including from
large foundations that donate annually to various causes. But
what's more relevant, as the sport is still largely funded by
fellow players (with donations, booster clubs, etc.), most if
not all of those moneys will now be tax-deductible! So, if you
donate money to IFPA for a specific purpose, and if that purpose
is within the guidelines (which we'll help you understand),
you can deduct it from your taxes just like a donation to any
charity. This also goes for products, equipment, services, etc.
Suddenly, those of us pouring money into the sport can get a
tax break as a result!

(3) A wide range of products and services within the U.S. are offered
at discount -- even free in many cases -- to 501(c)(3) non-profit
groups. Leveraging our charitable status, the IFPA can qualify for
benefits and use of facilities that we never had a chance to use
before. See below for some ideas of how we can pass this on to
players and organizers.

(4) Sponsors and other benefactors are much more likely to help us out
with events (especially Worlds) if they can get a tax deduction
in the U.S. (and California). Basically, 501(c)(3) status opens
doors to funding for our sport from large and small benefactors
alike. In fact, if we can demonstrate a large membership in
IFPA, we are more likely to attract corporate donations to help
us further the goals of the organized sport around the world.

WHAT THIS REALLY MEANS TO YOU:

When you think of IFPA, don't think of it as being some big organization that's centrally controlled by one or two people. In fact, please think the exact opposite -- think of it as an umbrella (with financial resources and all of the benefits of public charitable status above) that *YOU* can take advantage of to help promote footbag in your area. And yes, I mean everywhere (not just North America).

IFPA is essentially a tool that you now have in your pocket, especially if you are an organizer (or would-be organizer) of footbag events (whether competitive or not). The basic rule of thumb is -- if you contribute to the IFPA's goals (by helping drive membership, by serving on committees for various projects, by subscribing to the IFPA's rule book and event guidelines, etc.) you will get back whatever the IFPA (and your fellow players and organizers who are also participating) can give you. (But, again, for more detail about what IFPA can do for you, wait for that next long e-mail.)

Here are just a few ideas we have about how IFPA can help tournament organizers and clubs who request sanctioning, given our new charitable status:

IFPA can (and hopes to):

- create a central fund (through donations and sponsorships) that can
be managed and allocated as needed to events or clubs that meet given
criteria (to be spelled out when we actually have money to give
away )

- negotiate deals on bulk purchases (for example: uniforms, t-shirts,
program printing, banners, etc.) and coordinate these on behalf of
clubs and sanctioned events (for example, your entire club could order
uniforms through the IFPA uniform program, once we have people to
help do the leg-work, and your club simply pays IFPA the "hard costs"
and you get to take advantage of IFPA's bulk discounts and possibly
other discounts as a result of our charitable status)

- be a central point of contact for event insurance (especially in
North America, but hopefully globally with support from local
organizations) so that we can have a very inexpensive event
insurance alternative (this is something the WFA used to offer;
we'd like to revisit it in hopes that our charitable status will
improve our ability to manage the program and costs)

- be the official business entity for any and all official business
needed by your club or sanctioned event -- in other words, if you
want to take advantage of our charitable status, or if you simply
need a formal business through which all of your major transactions
occur, IFPA can potentially be that business (on a case by case
basis) to funnel money through (to get tax advantages if you are
strictly adhering to IFPA's accounting requirements)

- provide benefits for member organizations (such as large sanctioned
clubs or associations) including discounted (or hopefully free)
web hosting and disk space on the IFPA's dedicated internet
server (which is what most people think of as footbag.org) and
related services

For example, think of the World Championships this year and last. It is only coincidence that the event is in the San Francisco area. No matter where Worlds goes, it will be the IFPA World Footbag Championships, and any organizing club that puts on Worlds will have the right to use IFPA's charitable status to solicit donations, sponsorships, etc., and to use IFPA's bank account to manage the finances of the event. Understand, this in no way means people have carte-blanche -- the IFPA is a formal corporation and must adhere strictly to accounting rules. But while IFPA is managed by a team of elected and appointed directors (see below), it is the players' organization. And you should not misunderstand its value to footbag event organizers.

Again, IFPA's value to players (if not inferred from the long e-mail above) will be articulated in a later mailing.

WHO MADE THIS HAPPEN?

Well, a lot of people have helped with the development of the sport of footbag to get it to this point. Far more than I would possibly have time to mention here. But I'll do my best to list the people below who have contributed the most in the last few years to the formation of the IFPA itself, and to its attaining 501(c)(3) status, paving the way to what I hope will be a completely self-supporting organization.

Clearly, the IFPA would never have even had a chance without the World Footbag Association, and specifically Bruce Guettich. He and the WFA have created a complimentary organization for the players without which would make the IFPA's charter entirely unattainable. The WFA provides a single, consistent, public face to footbag... A point of contact (with a voice on the other end of the phone) for all things footbag-related. The WFA provides most of the promotional aspects of footbag that are simply not within the purview of the IFPA -- such as grass-roots touring teams, school demonstrations and PE classes, and more. In addition, WFA already has a sophisticated catalog of products that are available to footbag players, and which are now offered to IFPA members at reduced prices as well. Think of IFPA and WFA as sister organizations that each focus on a different set of services and functions for players of footbag around the world.

Next, the founding members of the IFPA. Obviously from my long, rambling e-mails, I'm one of the people who's driven the creation of this organization, but I'm in *no* way acting alone. In fact, I'd say far too little credit goes to the rest of the core founding members, so I want to emphasize here that they have done in many cases *much* more work than me in making this a reality. With much help and vision from Jim Curtis, I created the footbag.org website at the very start of this project, as a core component of what we all envisioned as a global information service for footbag fans and players. Footbag WorldWide is the on-line face of IFPA to the public (and players).

Julie Symons has worked diligently for the last 9 years to first create the corporation, then to do both the California and Federal income taxes *every* year since (that's a lot of work by itself!), to manage the bank account since we bankrolled the '94 and '95 World Championships, up through today as we are still unwinding from the 2001 Worlds and preparing to take on the 2002 Worlds, etc. Julie is *the* person who has contributed the most to IFPA's creation (and I bow to her now ).

The other core founders, Brent Welch and david Butcher, have provided incredible insight and direction, helped fill out many forms, wrote justifications and other background information for our applications and corporate documentation, helped draft, edit, and finalize our bylaws and articles of incorporation, and have each written a large amount of IFPA software (often overlooked but representing hundreds of hours of work!).

Julie's mom (Nancy Symons) really helped us out in the early phases of incorporating and dealing with tons of paperwork.

Recently, Tina Lewis has been providing invaluable assistance in interpreting legal requirements, helping us get better organized, driving some of the processes to get us fully up and running, and of course agreeing to take on the job of IFPA secretary.

And nobody can thank Eric Cote enough for his wonderful graphic design help -- he created the IFPA logo (which I think is awesome), designed the IFPA T-shirt, created and implemented most of the graphic design of footbag.org (the website of IFPA), as well as the online edition of the IFC rulebook, and much more.

Finally, of course, are all of the people who contributed in one way or another directly or indirectly to IFPA (whether they know it or not). They include: Johnny Stalberger, Arthur Coddington, Chris Ott, Dan Roddick, Ray Ferris, Lisa McDaniel, Constance and ET Constable, Jody Welch, Vince Bradley, PT Lovern, Derrick Fogle, Edmund La Macchia, Allan Haggett, Yves Archambault, Scott Davidson, Jan Zimmermann, Chris Eddicott, Justin Sexton, Jan Struz, Martin Cote, Casey Jones, Juliet Pendray, Sam Conlon, Eric Cokee, Matthew Quint, Yacine Merzouk, Derric Scalf, Tricia George, Eric Wulff, Scot Hansen, Becca English-Ross, Brian Kimball, Stan Sagalovskiy, James Holkko, The First Family (including Sunil ), Cory Current, and I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot more. (Whew.)

I personally want to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has contributed, whether directly or indirectly, and especially those who will contribute now that we have a framework in place and a better context in which more people can step up to the plate and help out.

WHO IS IFPA TODAY?

Well, we are about to begin our formal membership drive. Until now, we've only had a few people join aside from the original membership of around 150 people who signed up at the 2001 Worlds (the inaugural event). Our first annual elections were concluded before the new year, and our final appointed directors have just been named and approved by the elected board (per the by-laws of the corporation).

So, as of today, we have around 175 members in 6 countries, and our board of directors for 2002 is:

Executive Director: Steve Goldberg (USA)
Treasurer: Julie Symons (USA)
Secretary: Tina Lewis (USA)
Membership Director: Derrick Fogle (USA)
Communication Editor: Allan Haggett (CANADA)
Rules Director: david Butcher (USA)
Education Director: Scott Davidson (USA)
Marketing Director: Chris Ott (USA)
Assoc. Mktg. Director: Lisa McDaniel (USA)
Sanctioning Director: Chard Cook (CANADA)
Statisticians: John Leys (USA) & Vince Bradley (USA)

WHAT NEXT?

I'd love it if you joined us now. The first step is easy. Membership is only $10 (US) and a T-shirt is only $10 extra. So, $20 gets you a one-year membership w/T-shirt. You can pay online or via check or (int'l) money order with a mail-in certificate by going to http://www.footbag.org/ifpa/join

Your membership dues will go to help us get started with all of the great ideas we have (some of which are above). Without income, we cannot provide very much. So, your first reason to join (more in a later message) is to support the IFPA by simply sending in $10 (or $20 if you want a T-shirt). It's not so much to ask.

If you're interested in volunteering, or if something above inspired you to want to take advantage of the benefits of being under the IFPA umbrella, let us know how you want to hook yourself in. Some things will have to wait until we get enough critical mass, but other things may be just waiting for *you* to make them happen.

Thanks for reading this far. I'm very excited for the future of our sport, and I hope you all share in my hope for the continued global development of footbag.

Steve

Hope this is helpful. Recognizing much of the information above is now out of date, please don't bother correcting me.

Steve Goldberg

[FootbagginBum]

Thank you Steve (Told ya I'd get him )

I agree about the organization aspect as well, but thats already underway, and while we still have more to go, we're still losing about half our new recruits because .com is what people type when they look for a web page without searching, and maybe we could buy hackysack.com since it's unused atm, but still, footbag.com being an arrow in the right direction would give us many more people.

Now, will the most informed person please give me the details about Red Bull? I have had them talking to me for a long while making big statements but getting sidetracked, and I have a new shredder who worksfor them too, and although he's at the bottom, he may be of help. I need to be able to tell the head local guy what went down there, how great it was, and how much better it could be here due to the close proximity to Cali and Vegas appeal. If we all rallied around a single sponsored event, we could get media coverage that would draw in many people, and if we get some vocal camera time talking about organization, growth, and goals of the sport to the masses, it would break through the hackysack barrier in many peoples minds. I know the effects of this wouldn't be to widespread, but Europes moving on its own, and Australia and Japan have had better sponsorship and media coverage than America at this point. We need to get all the embers in this country (our hacky sackers, which I think outnumber any other countries) stoked into a full blaze. That will get everyone movig towards organization and promotion as a unit, and attract financial help with which to assist. Sponsors could mean the ifpa could focus its money on Worlds, and if we got coverage leading up to the biggest worlds, there'd be coverage OF the biggest worlds, and its just and exponential cycle. So, anyway, details of Red Bulls participation?

[webmaster]

we're still losing about half our new recruits because .com is what people type

Heh heh. You'll notice I distinctly didn't address your assertions that give footbag.com way more power and value than they merit. Don't waste your time worrying about footbag.com. Trust me -- we get far more traffic and are far better positioned to recruit and educate about footbag than footbag.com, and despite the small percentage of people who fall into that pit, we have are doing very well on the public education front. I mean, do you realize that we have literally hundreds of thousands of unique users per year on footbag.org alone? This is no small potatoes.

when they look for a web page without searching, and maybe we could buy hackysack.com since it's unused atm, but still, footbag.com being an arrow in the right direction would give us many more people.

First of all, hackysack.com is a registered trademark of Wham-O and we can't have it, even if we want it. I actually reserved this name back in the day and gave it to Wham-O when they were finally ready for it. So much for that. But we don't have rights to it.

Secondly, you have to agree, that 99.9% of all interested parties in footbag do a Google search first -- they wouldn't necessarily think to type footbag.com knowing that footbag is not always the most common name. Type hacky sack into Google. I just haven't heard that many anedcotes that people who eventually found "us" (though "we" are still split pretty sadly into two or three camps, even within the "non-footbag.com" community) and who said they had been stuck in the tarpit of footbag.com for any length of time beforehand.

Let's just not give footbag.com any credence -- even as an evil villain in this saga -- and try to avoid as a rule the basic problem in these online communities of scapegoating and conspiracy theories.

Now, will the most informed person please give me the details about Red Bull?

I'll tell you that "we" have done deals with literally hundreds of big companies through the years. They never pan out and actually help us longer term. Flashes in the pan happen all the time. I honestly don't think any of us should be wasting our precious time trying to get money out of big corporations just to show we're somehow bigger than we really are. We know how big we are -- and I personally believe that it's not money but quality of the package we put together that will ultimately "sell" us to players and to the large amateur sports bodies of the world (IOC included).

You need money for your event? Don't ask Red Bull for it. Ask me. I'd rather sponsor your tournament myself (and I know a lot of others, too) and/or run the funds through IFPA than to watch you go down yet another rathole. And deals are only words until they are signed. Most deals (I mean, by a wide margin, most deals) don't actually get executed. You put so much effort and time into having the discussions, going back and forth, and in the end it's all wasted. You could've used that time to do other great things, like actually plan a schedule and/or make killer T-shirts and/or convince a Casino to let you have your finals in their main arena.

If we all rallied around a single sponsored event, we could get media coverage that would draw in many people,

I know exactly how you feel, but I've tried this (as have many others) and it simply doesn't work. We're mostly volunteers, still, today. And I argue the sport really is and should be an "amateur" competition. Other professional opportunities will come out of it (and have in the past), but we need to stick to our guns and just put on great events in their own right -- not with the intention of somehow "going platinum" and signing our souls away to some big evil corporation.

Also, we do have an annual showcase event where we try to put most if not all of our promotional energy. Most specifically, Worlds. (Finland is going to be insane.) But you have to understand, any big name sponsorships they get will really just be local -- even if the names associated with them are well-known big international brands. Nothing is truly managed by a "central office" (okay, most things aren't), and so when you hear names of big sponsors like Pepsi, Red Bull, Nike, etc., you're not hearing that the whole company is somehow behind the event, but usually that the regional office is using some of its marketing funds and/or free product budget to do some local marketing. Not a multi-year contract for footbag around the world (though some day, this could happen, once we have a well-defined international governing body that can adminster such).

Europes moving on its own

What exactly do you mean? I keep hearing this negative undertone about how Europe is somehow completely separate and different from North America. You guys need to stop whining and just put on events. Europe doesn't have any more money, sponsors, media, or players than North America. But they have a good attitude -- they cooperate, hold committee meetings, and participate fully in the IFPA. I think somehow us finally getting over the hump and getting Europe "on board" has back-fired and now everyone has this huge concern that Europe is going its own way -- just when the problem is that the U.S., specifically, is losing organizers to fatigue and old age. You young whipper-snappers just need to organize more events -- FORGET THE BIG NAME MULTINATIONAL SPONSORSHIPS -- get the players and it will happen.

Steve Goldberg

[footbinc]

Steve,

You are like a mini-buddha (you gonna be at the green cup?)

I agree with you on Europe, they havent gone on their own, they have gone and done what we here should have been doing.

Things are slow here. Tourney's are small (for the most part) and they arent really tourney's at all, but informal jams and get togethers.

Falling back on net which has a bit more structure than freestyle, its starting to get back on track here. THe Green Cup is on, the US Open, Vancouver Open, Montreal Internation, Quebec City, and next year, we are having the canada cup here in deadmonton (im stealing the cup thing from oakland), we almost have a circuit in net But its what we need, we need the same core players going to all the events they can, which in turn will allow us to develop new players in all the varied markets we are in. it wouldnt be hard for freestyle to do the same thing, but the small time, lets shred in a church has to go.

Im not rapping on the event organizers who get all the respect I have for actually doing it, but we need to think bigger. We NEED to get out to the large events. Maybe im completly wrong about all this. I dont go to alot of freestyle events, but this is the impression I have of our fine game.

To reiterate (I just re-read this, and its kinda mumbo jumbo), we need to be more organized to put on the better show. Like steve said, its not about having Nike throw money at it, its the exposure, the killer venue, the awesome promotion, that will lead to greatness.

Anyone still interested in setting up the canadian federation? Its an insane amount of work (I checked ) but im in if others are.

Cheers

[FootbagginBum]

Next time I have a date in mind for an event that won't mess up or get messed up by other events, YOU'RE talking to the casinos Steve. I tried. Thats EXPENSIVE shit. Like $700 an hour for 1 of 20 ballrooms...let alone main stage... However, if we could ever get worlds here (down the road...in the next 5 years or so) and have finals on a main casino stage, we could charge less than usual and get a thousand people in the audience from a few well placed signs. There's nothing to do on the strip for less than $35, and TONS of tourists are looking.

I dropped the footbag.com rant for a year or so, so I'll do it again, but don't think I'll forget about it... in a couple years we'll see what we can do about it.

About hackysack.com...I went there to see if whamo had any links to us, and the site doesn't even exist right now, thats why I said we need it. Not to take it from them, just to make it SOMETHING more than an autosearch.

I wonder how many more IFPA members you could get if you offered a free sandbag for the "next 50 members" periodically? I'm sure Daryl would help support this cause. That would help get more funds.

just when the problem is that the U.S., specifically, is losing organizers to fatigue and old age. You young whipper-snappers just need to organize more events

I'm so down to help replace the tired folks, and I'm good at organization, its just hard to find a time to hold a tourney in Vegas that doesn't have another big event going on or 100+ weather. But the first Vegas Jam I put on I didn't know you and could have gotten much more help I bet, and if we could actually secure an indoor spot, summer wouldn't be a prob. I've been working really hard all year to meet the University's requirements, and I have finally completed that task, so once everything is finalized there, I will have much cheaper indoor possibilities, but I still need a good date that doesn't conflict with an event itself or with people saving up for one. Give me that (even if its 06) and I'll get the ball rolling. But i still don't think there needs to be "more" events, they just need better organization, like you have repeatedly said. Then they'd get bigger turnouts automatically. (But since I can't organize other's events, I'm doing everything I can to get them here...but not until I can guaruntee all the requirements for a HUGE turnout).

And I didn't mean to sound like I was picking on Europe, I love that its going there, and I know that you higher ups are working hard to make sure of that, I was just pointing out that they are indeed growing rapidly, while our hacky slacker mindset is still dominant here. (Hence my wish to get take over those URLS) IFPA used to be mainly american, but now it seems that all the little americans don't pay attn to it. Maybe you could send out some kind of email to the leaders of all the little hack clubs trying to inspire something. (I'll help if you want) Even if we started fostering monthly local comps, regional hack groups would show interest and learn a thing or two and turn more towards real freestyle and net (and then they'd go ifpa). I've finally got more than 8 regulars here again, (and am having a 10+ person meeting tomorrow with net too) but its a big con to have lost more than half the group simply because they're too stupid, lazy, or old to feel capable of learning anything (this amounts to 3 tiltless and 3 guiltless players). I work so hard on a small level and finally have a strong group, but have lost so much that I put so much effort into. like Evan...

Anyway, sorry to have hijacked the thread to a degree, but at least I'm trying to do what I can...if everyone were as stoked about making footbag huge as me I think we'd have the olympic requirements met in a year. Then we could be in the games by 2016. Let me know if there's anything I can do. Peace.

Bum

Oh, and steve, please talk about the tiered nationals concepts, and potential smaller tier systems.

[BrianP]

Man, I'm all for footbag in the olympics or the X-Games (who cares if it's not extreme IF they would ever let us in, it's publicity), but seriously, we do not have enough players. Sorry for reiterating, but getting a lot more players is absolutly key. That being said, a bunch of the ideas on this topic are on point; getting someone shreding at halftime during a big european soccer game would be huge! I have no idea how this would get done, as huge soccer games are (I'm assuming) like the superbowl or final four here. It costs a shitload of money to get any advertising at all during those kind of games. But seriously, if anyone has an idea of how this could be done it's a great idea. Also, I would assume that the X-games guys (whomever they may be) are quite up on what sports are out there and what they are interested in. It might be possible (IF they think it would draw a crowd) they they would allow a Vasek and some of the best players to do a demo; again, even though it is not extreme the sport would probably sit well with a lot of the people at the X-games. Other than that, just try to bring people in, promote in your areas, and the sport will grow. It's a ton of fun, it's really good exercise, and it's inexpensive; of course people will keep playing if there is a community to play in.

[Omen]

I don't know, I think vasek is pretty extream and so is footbag as a sport.

It does belong in the x games, now, some people might flip the channel after a few minutes saying, "they are just doing the same stuff" but a lot will be glued to the TV and would be willing to give it a shot. This is our audience, and even if half give up because its too hard, the other half will still be there.

I say we invite some of the best players for a demo THIS SUMMER, and have them kick in the crowds at the X games, they would get a good audience and lots of coverage I am sure. Be like "yo homies, we just trying to get in the x games is all".

I think its too much money to try to get events like the superbowl, especially since it wouldn't be as effective as we would all like. The main target audience for the superbowl is middle aged men but for some stupid reason they put Nelly and Justin Timberlake on the half time show.

[webmaster]

Guys, get off your X Games kick. We've done demos at most of the last few X Games. We've had discussions with them directly, too, about whether footbag is a "fit". They think it's not extreme enough -- they basically only like insane aerial sports and sports with wheels where the players move around the place. They don't like players just staying in one place. Forget X Games. Focus, people!

Steve

[ptaku]

[this isn't 100% serious]
Maybe Gravity Games? We fight with gravity, don't we?
[/this isn't 100% serious]

But what everyone should do is making their local scene bigger. And try to found some official clubs with some local sport and culture centre...