Philosophy

sen · Post by **sen** » 20 Apr 2005 11:26

Are you saying that we are just an experiment made by God? If so, I don't agree, but that's not the point here.

Your comparing us to what? The chicken? Or the Fox? I'm not sure. Either way God put us on the Earth and gave us EVERY possible chance to live a perfect life possible. Mankink messed that up, not GOD.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 20 Apr 2005 11:33

sen wrote:God didn't fail. Mankind Failed by not following the quildlines that God clearly set forth for us. If everyone in the world did follow his guildlines there would be NO problems.

When did "god" tell every one his guidelines? What about the people before the bible and the people that have never heard of the bible? Ignorance is not a defense to god. Why is it that religious people can explain away every fact that's given to them? The only facts from the bible are the people and what they did.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 20 Apr 2005 11:41

Our reality is a scenario created by god. Not unlike an experiment being a scenario created by a scientist.

We're the fox. Hell, we're the chickens, it doesn't matter. The point is, the scientist knew enough about chickens and foxes to know that it wouldn't work, and shit was gonna hit the fan. Sure, the scientist could throw his hands in the air and say 'I didn't force the fox to tear up all those chickens! they could have had utopia!', but is that a realistic belief considering what we know about foxes and chickens?

If god's understanding of humans is as strong as our understanding of foxes and chickens (I'd suspect that it is), then god also knew it wouldn't work, and is to blame for the results, and looks just as ridiculas throwing his hands up saying that we could have had utopia.

Anyways, I'm sorry to have started on this, it's a silly topic. People's beliefs are indoctrinated by the age of 6, and they spend the rest of their lives rationalising them, myself included. Believe what you want, just try not to hurt anyone on the way. I'm probably not doing well on that one today.

sen · Post by **sen** » 20 Apr 2005 11:44

delakong wrote:When did "god" tell every one his guidelines? What about the people before the bible and the people that have never heard of the bible? Ignorance is not a defense to god. Why is it that religious people can explain away every fact that's given to them? The only facts from the bible are the people and what they did.

God gave guildlines to Adam and he disobeyed them. The Bible isn't the only God could give guildlines. He spoke to humans on a number of occasions, and used prophets on many more.

You ask why religious people can't "explain away" every fact. The same could be asked of people who don't beleive in God. I have faith in God and his word, therefore I do not need to "explain away" every fact.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 20 Apr 2005 11:45

Damn, Colin. I think that's the most convincing argument I've ever heard. Kudos to you sir.

cd · Post by cd » 20 Apr 2005 11:46

I just don't get it.

How can so many people just decide to believe claims made in a book written by people thousands of years ago? Is it just because they really like this explanation and convince themselves it's true, or because its what their parents made them believe, or another similar reason that just amounts to nothing? Children believe in Santa because they really want some magical guy to give them presents (and they want to believe their parents' lies). Do people just pick to believe in their religion because they'd rather not believe that they just rot in the ground, and because they cannot create their own goals and find meaning for their own life?? What reason do you really have? I'm not trying to attack believers, I am honestly curious as to where your ideas come from.

And why follow this or that particular story book? It seems to me that if you are born in Europe or America (for example), chances are you're going to be Christian. If you're Middle Eastern, there's the overwhelming possibility you practice Islam. Any objective, rational look at this would be that all of this stuff is just myth and that God is just a creation of man.

The people who lived thousands of years ago were cavemen compared to us and what we've accomplished. If they could see us now, they'd think we have godly powers. In fact, read Freud's Future of an Illusion. I agree with his stance that this manmade concept of God only represents what man can become. Now isn't that encouraging? blah I want to type more but I'm out of time.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 20 Apr 2005 11:59

sen wrote:You ask why religious people can't "explain away" every fact. The same could be asked of people who don't beleive in God.

Facts are things that can be proven. You can't use this argument. We can't explain away any of the facts in the bible. Example:

Jesus existed=fact
Jesus is the son of god=opinion
god exist=opinion
I exist=fact
you exist=fact

sen wrote:I have faith in God and his word, therefore I do not need to "explain away" every fact.

That's good. If it makes you happy to believe in god, believe in god. Do what you want as long as you don't hurt other people.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 11:59

Chickens and foxes do not have a soul. Scientists can only experiment, that does not make it fact. Scientific explanations are changed every day. Why? Man is falable.

When was the BIBLE changed in recent times (recent being the present)??

It hasn't.

If you have not read the Bible then it would be all too easy for you to dismiss it as stories about old people. You're ignorant for making that statement. About as ignorant as an ignorant ass atheist.

Go to ???

Guess that doesn't apply to you.

The US govt. doesn't tolerate terrorism. So why the hell should I tolerate atheism?

I don't. Bottom line. Just like I don't support gay marrage. My religion says it is wrong. As wrong as killing another man over a loaf of bread.

Colin the reason you are full of shit, is because God did not give animals free will. He gave humans free will. We are free to choose. Without that option you couldn't be an atheist, you'd be a dumbass chicken.

Go read the Bible bro. Save the world, not political banter.

EDIT:

And if you had read the bible you would know that before Jesus, man suffered in limbo. It wasn't until Jesus died on the cross that the gates of heaven were open and man was given a choice. Those who believed were rewarded in heaven. Those who didn't were banished to hell.

Like I said, read the BIBLE before you stick your foot in your mouth.

sen · Post by **sen** » 20 Apr 2005 12:00

Something you might find interesting and might explain why I believe in the Bible and in God.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 20 Apr 2005 12:03

Something you might find interesting on just one of the many reasons that I know god doesn't exist.

http://www.skepticreport.com/creationism/sillyflood.htm

Thanks to qphox (I think) for that one.

sen · Post by **sen** » 20 Apr 2005 12:07

Wow, your a fast reader to have read that article in such a short time.

I haven't read yours yet but I will.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 12:08

Many scientists openly profess belief in a Creator. Granted, they may not believe in a personal God or in the Bible. Yet, they are convinced that the design evident in nature requires an intelligent Designer.

Thanks Tony!

I may not attend church and give to the poor, but I certainly know my place in life and that the miracles I see everyday like breathing, seeing light, feeling the pressure of a touch, etc... Are all too well connected for it to have just spontaneously happened. Those of you who believe that the world just happened, happen to be WRONG.

Would a gasoline powered automobile spontaneously occur? No stupid. You need an engineer to design the thing, troubleshoot, manufacturers to assemble it, dealers to distribute it, and sales men to take you for a ride.

Why then would you believe that a human, the most complex creature on the planet, would have spontaneously happened?

[Flames a blazin']

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 12:10

Keep in mind none believer that the bible too was written by man, who is falable.

If you were to see a rocket ship blast off for the first time ever and didn't know what you were seeing, how would you describe it?

You can't say well this part is a stretch of truth, therefore it is all wrong.

footbinc · Post by **footbinc** » 20 Apr 2005 12:14

Technology will be the second coming

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 12:22

Something else I'd like to point out.

When scientists first discovered the atom they thought they had hit the end of the road. Ultimately what they thought they found was the link between perpetual bigness and perpetual smallness. They were hoping for a model that would help explain the existance of the universe, of the atom, and of life itself.

What they found when the split the atom, was a whole bunch of quarks. Quarks??? WTF??? This threw off their model completely. They were now back to square one with all their precious theories proved false as false can be.

Then again, they thought, well now the quark, that is the end of the road. Until they cracked that open too and found an infinite supply of shit they don't even know what it is.

And to this day still do not.

In the Bible man tried to get close to God and God smitted them to the grave.

Today scientists are trying to smit God and are failing miserably. With every turn they run into something else unexplainable. Which is why many of them DO believe in God.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 20 Apr 2005 12:22

sen wrote:Wow, your a fast reader to have read that article in such a short time.

I haven't read yours yet but I will.

I haven't read it yet. I thought you had a good idea with that, so I sent you an address to. I probably won't be able to read it untill about five. I'm just popping in here when ever I finish typing a letter to a client. I still have like twenty to go. I'm gonna read it though, I promise. I like seeing other people's perspective on things like this.

FlexThis wrote:In the Bible man tried to get close to God and God smitted them to the grave.

That is easily disproven. The people of that day and age did not have that ability to build structures of that nature.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 12:24

I like flaming on hell bound souls.

A little heat before the fire.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 12:52

That is easily disproven. The people of that day and age did not have that ability to build structures of that nature.

Not only did they build them, they are still standing. Can you say Pyramid???

Geees bro

Your argument is falling apart faster than a sand castle during a tsunami.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 20 Apr 2005 13:21

Newf wrote:Believe what you want, just try not to hurt anyone on the way. I'm probably not doing well on that one today.

Yah, I guess not. My apologies, didn't mean to upset anyone.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 20 Apr 2005 13:25

FlexThis wrote:
That is easily disproven. The people of that day and age did not have that ability to build structures of that nature.
Damn you're stupid...

Not only did they build them, they are still standing. Can you say Pyramid???

Geees bro Your argument is falling apart faster than a sand castle during a tsunami.

I'm stupid? I don't believe the top of a pyramid is the equivalent to the height of heaven. I know the whole stupid babel tower story. It's retarded to even think that that could/would happen. A bunch a people building a tower to heaven then getting their language changed as punishment. That's so dumb. The great flood, dumb. The magic man in the sky creating things on a whim, dumb as shit.