Philosophy

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 13:26

Or myself for that matter

.

oops

- Sorry none believers, your not so secret secret is safe with me.

up up and away [he says as he flies around the earth reversing time to before this thread started]

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 13:30

What's crazy is as archeologists are out digging for bones, they have stumbled upon of all things the babylonian tower in Iraq.

There are many items that exist in Iraq that would support the Bible on many levels. Unfortunately Sadam and his muslim regime don't want you to have access to anything that might disprove Allah. So as we battle for freedom and spread Bushism around Iraq, we may indeed find more pieces of the biblical puzzle.

I refuse to give up on a book that has stood the test of time based on no belief system at all.

Show me how your way is better, morally sound, and ethical, and I might subscribe to your newsletter. Until then the Bible is the only way to go for me.

Thom · Post by **Thom** » 20 Apr 2005 13:44

The Bible isnt the only thing the christian faith is based on. There are teachings, promises, prophicies and only way to live your life is all contained in that book. And I believe and cherish them.

But my faith is also a real one. I know that God is working in my life and in others lifes. I have felt his power and I have heard his call. His Holy spirit is still living and around everyone of us right now.

By asking him into your heart and accepting him as Lord and saviour of your life is the only way to live.

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 20 Apr 2005 14:04

sen wrote:
ebo wrote:
Depends on how you define God. If you mean the religious
abstract thing, then no.
I rarely respond to religous things on the net, but this upset me enough that I have to.

"Abstract Thing"????? How can you call God an absract thing? Have you ever read any part of the Bible? If you've put any effort into reading the Bible or searching for answers about God you would never have said what you said because you would know it wasn't true and that God has a personality and is full of Love, Justice, Loyalty, Kindness, Rightgeuos Anger, ect.

No problem, but I also see that we are talking on different levels here.
I have read parts of the bible, yes. My best friend in school was a mormon. It's a matter of belief, it's as simple as that. This discussion
is forced to bring up some flaming, because intolerance is widespread
across organised religion. That's why I think every form of organised
religion is dangerous to say the least. See the history of the catholics,
all the wars in the name of faith, the countless slaughtering of whole
tribes etc.

Since you haven't looked into the Bible and learned these things you had no right to say to what you said anyway.

It's exactly that intolerance that I mean. I do tolerate you for your
beliefs, that's perfectly fine for me, but posts like this, and those by
others like Damon lead me to believe that you christians (no offense)
don't accept any alternate form of belief. Why do you consider it an insult
to you or to God if one thinks differently?

And what's so bad about calling God abstract? Isn't that what he is?
It doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't exist - he's simply not seizable,
nothing that you can see or touch.

edit: by the way, this topic has made an interesting metamorhposis -
orginally it was about philosophy

On-topic - I'm reading this very
interesting book called "The Simpsons and Philosophy" - highly
recommended! It has lots of essays by various philosophers on
the show - very entertaining read, there.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 14:15

I wasn't offended by the mention of abstraction. I rather agree with that.

It (Bible) never says God is a man. It never says God is anything. I think of God as everyone and everything. Like mano in that movie The Craft. He is the way, truth and the light.

My intolerance is warranted by my belief that atheism leads to anarchy. No rules and no consequences for your actions leads to sinful and shameful behavior.

I do indeed tolerate other religions that have not been bastardized by misinterpretation. An example would be the muslim faith, I respect it. However, I do not tolerate nor respect the twisting of islam to justify beheadings and jihad.

I also do not tolerate Christian Crusaders that try to cram religious dogma down your throat. Or that claim their sect is the only way to go.

If it were the only way to go, then it would truly be the only way available.

But taking a stand like, it is a bunch of stories from old dead people, or that God can't exist because man says so, is a thoughtless load of horse shit. And it sounds to me like you are making false claims out of laziness or rejection of someone or something that may have happened to you to make you feel that way.

full nelson · Post by **full nelson** » 20 Apr 2005 15:35

FlexThis wrote:The US govt. doesn't tolerate terrorism. So why the hell should I tolerate atheism?

My intolerance is warranted by my belief that atheism leads to anarchy. No rules and no consequences for your actions leads to sinful and shameful behavior.

You believe and yet, you're still an asshole. No rules and no consequences? What are you talking about? Ever heard of the law? Just because Atheists don't believe in any God must mean they're bad people. Maybe we can even have a righteous genocide to save society from those evil Atheists.

Congratulations, you're a bigot and a moron. I don't care that you believe in God. Why the hell do you care that I don't?

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 20 Apr 2005 15:36

You guys are out of your minds.

Saying that life has no meaning is complete crap. Look at the birth of any child and then tell me life is meaningless.

Simply being here in the first place should give you some indication that someone or something else is in control.

Matter did not just appear one day. Space cannot be just a series of dirt bouncing off itself.

The brain has not even been fully explored. Nor the oceans for that matter. For all we know God lives at the bottom of the sea.

You none believers make me ill with your "I can't see it, therefore it must not be real" falacious arguments. You did not live in the time of Jesus or budda or any other diety of religous faith. So how can you sit there and type these none sensical explanations about religion?

Have some faith. I'll pray for your souls.

This is kind of simplistic, and I'm a Christian!

We're the fox. Hell, we're the chickens, it doesn't matter. The point is, the scientist knew enough about chickens and foxes to know that it wouldn't work, and shit was gonna hit the fan. Sure, the scientist could throw his hands in the air and say 'I didn't force the fox to tear up all those chickens! they could have had utopia!', but is that a realistic belief considering what we know about foxes and chickens?

If god's understanding of humans is as strong as our understanding of foxes and chickens (I'd suspect that it is), then god also knew it wouldn't work, and is to blame for the results, and looks just as ridiculas throwing his hands up saying that we could have had utopia.

I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to get at here as I will admit I only briefly read these posts. But if you're asking yourself why God created such fallible beings despite his being infallible? The answer comes from the fact that had God mad us totally rational, 100% peace loving creatures, then we would be living in a world of automatonic robots, who could not decide for themselves. The question for God was, "Do I give humans free will and thus let them create real love or real hate, or do I impose on them what I know is right and what is wrong." Honestly ask yourself if you would rather be living in the world we are currently living in (Which as everyone knows is fucked up), or if you would rather be living a world of automatonic, will-less robots. Sorry if that was not the point you were trying to get at, and if it was not I will delete this post.

It (Bible) never says God is a man. It never says God is anything.

Read closer, man was created in Gods image. Thus, God, assuming you're a Christian, has a nose, a mouth, ears, and two testicles.

The US govt. doesn't tolerate terrorism. So why the hell should I tolerate atheism?

Because Aethism, whether true or not, is trying to make a better world for all of Earth's inhabitants. Muslim terrorists are murdering people. I think you're thick if you do not see a striking difference. On a sidenote, why should Muslim's tolerate the West invading their culture and way of life with our values? You clearly don't like Islam being imposed on us (Which realistically, it isn't), so why don't you show sympathy for Muslims having Christianity (Modern Christianity being materialism) imposed on them.

don't support gay marrage. My religion says it is wrong. As wrong as killing another man over a loaf of bread.

Actually if you were a true Christian who did his homework, you'd realize that the only mention of homosexuality in the Bible is a result of mistranslations that have been made since the book was written in the first place. Modern homosexuality was not even a concept until recently, and the three languages that our modern bible translates from (Hebrew, Arabic, Greek) didn't even have a word for homosexuality until sometime in the 1800's.

And c'mon, the chapter of the Bible which says "Man shall not lie with man" is the same chapter that tells us not to eat pig or rabbit, which clearly we modern Christians do. Face it, the Bible you support is one filled with lies and mistranslations, and you are a disgrace to the name of true Christians who want to solve worldly problems, not create them.

I may not attend church and give to the poor, but I certainly know my place in life and that the miracles I see everyday like breathing, seeing light

Great, so you expect to say that you love Jesus, believe in God, yada yada yada and think you'll get into Heavan just for this. WRONG. You are a sinful person for your comparisions of our brothers the Aethists to Muslim Extremeists who murder innocents. You are are sinful person for your persecution (Whether by words or actions) of the Homosexual nature. I hope, and I really do hope, that you can come to understand Jesus in your time, otherwise, you will be left to rot in eternal damnation while Aethists who lived the Christ-life (Whether knowingly or not) look down upon you in hell.

Flexthis, you and Christians like you are the modern day Pharisee's of Christ's time, and it will be you who is judged and sent to damnation, not the Aethists/Buddhists/Agnostics/Muslims.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 20 Apr 2005 15:55

I've read large parts of the Bible, and I will say, honestly, that the Bible truly is one of the funniest books I've ever read.
Right out of the gate it's funny! I mean, just the first six pages. I mean that shit is like the most D&D bullshit crazy shit... like, "And then the all powerful thing... swooped down and sent a plague of frogs upon all the heathens!" What? What are you talkin' about? "Let's give him more powers! Let's roll the die! Heeheehee. And he was dead for three days then ROOOSE UP TO HEAVEN!" That's total D&D nonsense.
Anyway, the bible's so crazy. I mean first of all, if you know the history of the bible, and how it was written in these dead languages and then translated and then retranslated into other languages and then retranslated by monarchs, based on their whims, and all this shit. And you know the people interpret it in their own way and you sit there and you still, after all that shit, and you realize that the bible was written thousands of years ago when people were even DUMBER than we are today. Think about that.
Go outside, wait till the bars empty out... fuckin' go home, watch FOX TV. And realize that, 'Wow, the bible was written by people even dumber than all these motherfuckers.' That's the bible you're reading, and has been read to you for generations. It's insane; it's.. it's absurd to believe in that shit.
Okay, let's forget that. Let's just look at Genesis, just as an example. Right off the bat, I swear the funniest six pages in literary history. God, this all-powerful God, decides he's gonna make Earth. It takes him six days to make Earth--there's all kinds of other crazy shit goin' on--but it takes him six days--six calendar days, I assume it's a Gregorian calendar--but, six days to make the earth, and then... he rests, on the 7th day, because he's exhausted. "Woo! Man, those rivers took a LOT outta me." IT'S FUCKING GOD! God gets tired? God needs a nap? This isn't the God I was made to understand exists, and, fuckin', rules all our lives. God... God gets tired after 6 days. "Ugghhh, man, I gotta crash, I gotta crash before I get up and do, I dunno, whatever I'm gonna do."
And then, so he makes this HUGE planet. Huge! Massive planet, takes him 6 fuckin' days, it's huge. I don't know if you've driven cross-country, but that's about this much of the planet (| |). He makes the polar ice caps, he makes Ecuador, he makes Bayonne, NJ, he makes this huge planet. And then he decides, "You know what? I'm gonna put one dude in there." One guy. One guy. So he makes Adam, and he goes, "Enjoy!" and leaves... to go make... Venus, I guess.
So he makes Adam, and then it occurs to him later when he checks back in on him, that, "Oh, Adam's lonely. Ah, shit, I forgot to make other people for him to hang out with. I thought he'd be able to commune with the sparrow, and the fuckin' lungfish, I thought that would work for him. But I guess... he's just sittin'... takin' a shit... and not knowing what to do. I didn't really have the foresight, well what the fuck do I know? I'm just GOD, I know everything." So when Adam's sleeping he takes a rib out and makes Eve for him. Alright, so then Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel, first of all there's the thing with the snake, and the tree. We all know that story, it's quite sad, I don't want to relay it right here, and bum everybody out. It is our original fall from grace.
So then Cain slays Abel, his brother, and then Cain's punishment is he's banished from Eden and he has to go to Nod... where God provides him with a wife.... So his punishment, is that he doesn't have to hang out with his parents anymore, and there's somebody he can fuck whenever he wants. That's his punishment. And he didn't even lose a rib for it!
But the best part, is after kinda page 2-6, when Cain was banished, and how they explain how from four people, they get to Noah's time where the Bible kinda kicks in again, and there's like 6 pages to get up to speed, how from 4 people there were like a million, without explaining, you know, evolution, or, you know, incest or anything like that. 'Cause there was a loooot of mother fuckin' going on there. Lotta mother fuckin', sister fuckin', daughter fuckin', father fuckin', niece fucking, cousin fucking, tons of fucking. Rampant, RAMPANT incest. Tons, man. Granddaughter fucking, grandSON fucking, tons, tons of incest. And to explain how they got from there to a million people without, you know, getting into that shit about evolution, which is a load 'a SHHHIT. Heh, come on, the scientists, with their "theories" and their "facts," you know... that's nonsense! Everybody knows it was a talking snake in a tree. We all know that. That's how the earth started. It wasn't this long, protracted, evolutionary process, it was a talking snake in a tree. Please, we all know that.
As I was saying, in order to explain how from four people there's like a million, in Noah's time, there's this long list of people. In Genesis, if you got it at home, look it up, it's right there, and if you don't have it, check into a fuckin' shitty cheesy motel for like 16 bucks, and just go steal the bible, and you know, leave and go home. Bible's worth 16 bucks, so everybody wins. And the gideons have something to do tomorrow.
But there's this long list of people who begat other people. It goes on for like 6 pages, just on and on and on. 'Bihad begat Jidah, and Jidah begat, you know, Jebediah, and Jebediah begat Ezekiel, and Ezekiel begat Hermaphrodite, and Hermaphrodite begat Michelin." And it just goes on and on and on. But the funniest thing is, they all grow up to be... eight hundred and forty years old. Nine hundred and ten years old, nine hundred and forty years old. For real. And you're reading this going, "What...?? Nine hundred and forty years old?? Oh my God!! Have you seen a Hundred-year-old? What the fuck? What kind of fuckin' god is making people be nine hundred and forty years old? Jesus, man, you're a hundred years old, you fuckin' fall down, break your hip, that's it. Wherever you fuckin' land, that is where you're gonna be for the next EIGHT. HUNDRED. motherfuckin' years. You are nothin' but a shit and piss factory, my friend. You stay right there and slowly deteriorate, and just fuckin' hope that a piece of fruit falls off a tree, so you can be like, "Aaaggghh!" You'll have somethin' to eat for once... just sitting there praying for death. What a wonderful way to spend your life, with no body else around. That's awesome.
And you know, my favorite thing about, like, really religious people [Damon] is when they tell me they're gonna pray for me. "I'm gonna pray for you so hard, I'm gonna pray for your soul. I'm just gonna spend the next three days just prayin' for your soul, praying for you." You know, and then I'm like, "...Cool. Heh, alright. Tha--really? That's awesome! Thank you! I--alright, I'm gonna, uh, fuckin, do some blow and then fuck that girl, cuz--but you got everything covered? Thank you very much. Thank you very very much. I do appreciate it."

And... of course, continues into more irrelevant stuff.

Thank you, David Cross, and thank you Damon Mathews for telling me how to live my life. I do appreciate it.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 20 Apr 2005 16:00

FlexThis wrote: There are many items that exist in Iraq that would support the Bible on many levels. Unfortunately Sadam and his muslim regime don't want you to have access to anything that might disprove Allah. So as we battle for freedom and spread Bushism around Iraq, we may indeed find more pieces of the biblical puzzle.

Actually under sadaam, Iraq had the worlds best collection of archived and catelogued artifacts from the ancient world. Anyone could get a permit to excavate in Iraq or to go through the museum collections, and anything discovered on diggs in Iraq had to be added to the collection and curated.

Remember when those damn ignornant liberals were wining about the looting of the museums . . . and you war heads said you have to break eggs to make an ommlette ?

Well your ommlette destroyed a large portion of mankinds common history. The muslims already know Allah and the Christian God are the same . . it's explicit about this in the Koran.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 20 Apr 2005 16:01

Read closer, man was created in Gods image. Thus, God, assuming you're a Christian, has a nose, a mouth, ears, and two testicles.

No NO No

You're taking it literally. Image refers to compassion, caring, understanding, love, etc...

Not literally 2 eyes a nose and a mouth. You don't really believe that do you???

And to the atheist calling me a moron. FU. Your ignorance breads anarchy. And yes I do lump atheists with terrorists. You can believe whatever you want. But if you can't back your beliefs up with anything other than I disagree with that. Then your beliefs are as believable as women should cover their faces all the time and be killed and controlled by men forever.

I don't repsect atheists because they lack any significant belief system at all. So your beliefs are none beliefs, and therefore are not valid to me and do not deserve my respect.

It's like you are a little kid that refuses to eat brocolli simply cause it tastes funny. Atheists choose not to believe because it tastes funny to them. And when you lack a structural belief system, then you are a dangerous individual void of any real moral fiber. You are void of rules and ethics.

You obey mans laws for fear of jail and nothing more. You lack a soul and therfore belong to satans army.

Sorry no sway here. Atheists are ignorant. Even the educated ones. Waking up every morning and looking out your own set of eyes should be enough for you to believe that you are not in control nor are any humans, and that someone or something greater than youself exists. You are nothing more than an egotist.

Put down the crack pipe.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 20 Apr 2005 16:09

*More passing judgements of damnation added to my original post

full nelson · Post by **full nelson** » 20 Apr 2005 16:16

FlexThis wrote:And to the atheist calling me a moron. FU. Your ignorance breads anarchy. And yes I do lump atheists with terrorists. You can believe whatever you want. But if you can't back your beliefs up with anything other than I disagree with that. Then your beliefs are as believable as women should cover their faces all the time and be killed and controlled by men forever.

I don't repsect atheists because they lack any significant belief system at all. So your beliefs are none beliefs, and therefore are not valid to me and do not deserve my respect.

It's like you are a little kid that refuses to eat brocolli simply cause it tastes funny. Atheists choose not to believe because it tastes funny to them. And when you lack a structural belief system, then you are a dangerous individual void of any real moral fiber. You are void of rules and ethics.

You obey mans laws for fear of jail and nothing more. You lack a soul and therfore belong to satans army.

Sorry no sway here. Atheists are ignorant. Even the educated ones. Waking up every morning and looking out your own set of eyes should be enough for you to believe that you are not in control nor are any humans, and that someone or something greater than youself exists. You are nothing more than an egotist.

Put down the crack pipe.

Are you serious? I'm not even going to respond to this garbage. I don't believe you're this blind, not of your faith in God, but your faith in people. If you're not saying this to fuel an arguement which you're known for, you're unbelievably stupid.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 20 Apr 2005 16:20

FlexThis wrote: It's like you are a little kid that refuses to eat brocolli simply cause it tastes funny. Atheists choose not to believe because it tastes funny to them. And when you lack a structural belief system, then you are a dangerous individual void of any real moral fiber. You are void of rules and ethics.

You obey mans laws for fear of jail and nothing more. You lack a soul and therfore belong to satans army.

You know what? Fuck you!

Okay, first of all, it's NON. NON-beliefs, NON-believer. Not NONE.

And further, fuck you for calling me monster, lacking any sort of morals. I'm sorry that I don't copy my way of life from a fictional story, okay? I don't need a higher power or a set of rules to tell me how to live my life. I observe and I learn, and I do what I believe is right, which has been doing good thus far.

Congratulations, asshole. You believe in an invisible man in the sky, and worship a dead guy on a stick.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 20 Apr 2005 16:32

Aethiesm doesn't lead to anarchy, it leads to inventions like the hubble space telescope, vaccinations against polio, and airbags in your truck. It leads to science that allows satellites to remain stationary so that your GPS system can work. Without atheist questioning religion, the earth would still be the centre of the universe and the sun would revolve around a flat earth.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 20 Apr 2005 17:28

FlexThis wrote:It's like you are a little kid that refuses to eat brocolli simply cause it tastes funny. .

Whoa! Was that a really clever reference to Bush Sr.`s press conference back in the day? If so, doesn`t that shoot your argument in the foot?

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 20 Apr 2005 21:00

And when you lack a structural belief system, then you are a dangerous individual void of any real moral fiber. You are void of rules and ethics.

I was an aethist for a long time before I "found God", and I can fairly say that I was a very good, moral human being. I can say that I would rather have the Aethist's on this board running the world as opposed to the average America Christian, they're generally more moral and far more intelligent.

carl winslow · Post by **carl winslow** » 20 Apr 2005 22:01

to all you money makin fat cats who dont believe in God-
What caused the big bang?
-the universe would have collapsed if the big bang exploded one trillionth of a percent more slowly, and if the universe exploded into existance one trillionth of a percent faster than the universe would have been so widely seperated nothing would have formed.
Everything sits in such a delicate ballance. Earth had to be the perfect size shape and distance from the sun... we took 15 billion years to get to where we are now.
if there is no God, how could all this happen?
BOOYAKASHA thats some food for thought!

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 20 Apr 2005 23:15

Everybody should chill out. After all, this topic is going nowhere, because
each side has it's beliefs, and they differ so much from each other, that
discussion (as demonstrated here) is pointless.

Although I enjoyed Stephen's highly cynical post, I still think it makes no
sense trying to convince anybody that god doesn't exist.
God being non-existant is what many of us believe, but we should respect
those who do believe in him, even though many of them (Damon, amongst
others) don't seem to respect or tolerate us. Well. If you want to
compare us to terrorists, I feel sorry for you and your narrow-minded
world view. Open up.

carl winslow wrote: to all you money makin fat cats who dont believe in God-
What caused the big bang?
...
if there is no God, how could all this happen?

Have you ever considered there might be things in our universe that we
just don't know/understand YET? Not many centuries ago, mankind
thought of a solar eclipse as a big miracle, because they didn't know
YET. People always want to know everything, and if they can't explain
it, then they use the common explanation - god.
And I'm not trying to convince you to not believe in god - I'm just trying
to make you see there may be different views and accept it for mankind's
sake.

But back to the original topic:

Heidegger vs Schopenauer - who wins?

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 21 Apr 2005 04:05

Mmm, yes, I should probably also add that I really don't have a problem with Christians. Most of my friends are Christian, and so is my mother. It was indeed Damon specifically who infuriated me.

Asmus · Post by **Asmus** » 21 Apr 2005 04:49

I did not want to start an religious debat.. Buts as darwin said "Things Evolve".. Or Something..

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