Philosophy

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 21 Apr 2005 05:47

carl winslow wrote:to all you money makin fat cats who dont believe in God-
What caused the big bang?
-the universe would have collapsed if the big bang exploded one trillionth of a percent more slowly, and if the universe exploded into existance one trillionth of a percent faster than the universe would have been so widely seperated nothing would have formed.
Everything sits in such a delicate ballance. Earth had to be the perfect size shape and distance from the sun... we took 15 billion years to get to where we are now.
if there is no God, how could all this happen?
BOOYAKASHA thats some food for thought!

What caused god? I mean, if the universe has been around for ever, like I believe, (see that Damon, I believe in something so don't kill me

) what/who created god? Did he just appear out of no were? Was he just chillin by himself untill he got bored and decided to make angels? After he got bored with the angels, did he decide to build a planet? After he built our planet (and everything on it) did he just go "Fuck all!!! These humans are gonna learn how to get into space one day, so I'm just gonna build an unlimited amount of other galaxies just to fuck with them."?

I know these questions are kind of hard for the believer, but don't worry, science will figure them out. Too bad you'll have gone through the food chain about a million time before that happens. But maybe, just maybe, your "soul" (were do you find that by the way, and why do only humans have one?) will be looking down from "heaven" when it happens.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 21 Apr 2005 06:13

FlexThis wrote:
Read closer, man was created in Gods image. Thus, God, assuming you're a Christian, has a nose, a mouth, ears, and two testicles.
No NO No

You're taking it literally. Image refers to compassion, caring, understanding, love, etc...

So how do you know that any of the bible is meant to be taken literally. Maybe it's all a series of moral lessons - trying to give you an understanding of why it's important to "Love Your Neighbor" and "Turn The Other Cheek" instead of killing and exploiting thousands of people every year. We live in a democracy - your nations actions are in your name.

And to the atheist calling me a moron. FU. Your ignorance breads anarchy. And yes I do lump atheists with terrorists.

Don't be ignorant - clearly not being a Christian doesn't make you a terrorist. Terrorism has no link with atheism - terrorism is about fighting against oppression in the only way they can. Clearly terrorism is effective. The extremists that organized the September 11 attacks on the US had no way of doing any kind of significant damage to the US and the cultural assimilation and oppression that is occurring in the middle east. They wanted to provoke you - isn't that obvious. By causing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq they have increased their support enormously - and will continue to do so until they either have the power to fight the US on even terms or can no longer convince people of your evil (because the US will have stopped oppressing people - wishful thinking...)

I am an atheist and a pacifist - I oppose all violence and I believe that there are always better solutions. I don't believe torture is ok like many Christians did in the past, I don't believe that I have the right to enforce my beliefs on other people like many Christians still believe, I don't believe that people from other religions will be tormented for eternity for being born in a non Christian country, and I don't believe that I should be good to people so that I can go to heaven - I believe in being good to people regardless of my personal consequences from the actions - I'm not good to people for selfish reasons - as it so easy to be as a Christian.

You can believe whatever you want. But if you can't back your beliefs up with anything other than I disagree with that. Then your beliefs are as believable as women should cover their faces all the time and be killed and controlled by men forever.

Do you honestly believe that Christianity is any more believable than Islam? Or that Christianity hasn't been responsible for a massive oppression of women in the past - or even now in the present? The fact is that 99% of religion is how you interpret the teachings. Many Christians believe that man is the dominant gender and that women are responsible for the downfall of human kind (eve). Many others believe that both genders are equal and should be treated equally. Do you really believe that Islam is any different to this? Are you really that ignorant of the rest of the world? Do you know what the word "Islam" means?

I don't repsect atheists because they lack any significant belief system at all. So your beliefs are none beliefs, and therefore are not valid to me and do not deserve my respect.

So it's better to believe that you are better than particular other people than to believe that you are equal. The fact is that I respect your beliefs and all religious beliefs. I would never try and enforce my beliefs onto you. If you are opposed to gay marriage or other things that I support - there is a very easy solution. Damon, please, don't marry a man just because it's legal (if it becomes legal) - just because you can it doesn't mean you have to. You won't be happy if you do - so please remember that. However other people will be happy if they do and not only that but they won't hurt you in any kind of way at all by being happy. Why would you be opposed to something that makes people happy and doesn't hurt anybody at all. If that's the kind of morality that atheists are lacking - I'd much rather be an atheist.

It's like you are a little kid that refuses to eat brocolli simply cause it tastes funny. Atheists choose not to believe because it tastes funny to them. And when you lack a structural belief system, then you are a dangerous individual void of any real moral fiber. You are void of rules and ethics.

What are you trying to say Damon? That we should do what we're told - regardless of how we feel about it? Authority should be respected no matter what? That same attitude cost the lives of millions of people. Hooray for unquestioning support - it's what dictatorships are built on.

You obey mans laws for fear of jail and nothing more. You lack a soul and therfore belong to satans army.

Yes and your only motivation for obeying laws is so that good things happen to you. Personally I only obey the laws that I agree with - and I'm pretty sure that I've heard you talk about some particular laws you're happy to break too.

Sorry no sway here. Atheists are ignorant. Even the educated ones. Waking up every morning and looking out your own set of eyes should be enough for you to believe that you are not in control nor are any humans, and that someone or something greater than youself exists. You are nothing more than an egotist.

Being atheist is completely the opposite of being an egotist. In fact it means you have to understand that you are no more important than anybody else - your life is no more valuable or special than anything else. On the other hand - your religion teaches you that people have those beliefs are better than those that don't, that the whole universe revolves around humanity and that other life forms are insignificant in the course of our planet. Atheism is not ignorant – in fact it is taking into account the evidence and making a judgment on what we personally see - rather than what other people tell us we should see. Ignorance is believing in fairy tales...

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 21 Apr 2005 07:22

I'm an atheist - respect me - bah hum bug.

If you call yourself an atheist then you are a cop out period.

No more discussion from me. It seems you have your path laid out right in front of you and it isn't to serve God's will. So in my eyes that makes you a NON-Believer (excuse me mister panties in a wad), and not worthy of my admiration nor respect.

Have faith, or you are part of the problem. And by faith I mean admitting you are not the center of the universe and that something else is in control. Whether it be God, Allah, or some made up diety. I would tolerate acknowledgement of a higher power, but scoff at the idea of no higher power at all. To me that is atheism. A belief in nothing. You might as well be a moral vegetable.

And yes, I am flaming on you and yes I hope I have stepped on toes. My God is worthy of respect, a mere mortal who holds his morals true only to himself is a selfish individual and not worth a moments respect.

And I will not under any Politically Correct pressure, bend from my position on religious faith nor tolerate Atheism. You are blind to your own world by holding yourself accountable only to yourself. You are not in control and no amount of scientific evidence in your life time will prove otherwise.

This isn't the first time I have had to stand up against you people and fight for my beliefs, however far contrived from your non-beliefs.

~so there [sticking out tongue and laughing at the same time]

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 21 Apr 2005 07:25

FlexThis wrote:If you call yourself an atheist then you are a cop out period.

No more discussion from me.

Oh the irony of it all...

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 21 Apr 2005 07:34

FlexThis wrote:And I will not under any Politically Correct pressure, bend from my position on religious faith nor tolerate Atheism. You are blind to your own world by holding yourself accountable only to yourself. You are not in control and no amount of scientific evidence in your life time will prove otherwise.

To bad everybody else holds me acountable for my actions, huh? Reread that to yourself and think about it, really think about it. Do you think your god would embrace the hate you spew?

FlexThis wrote:This isn't the first time I have had to stand up against you people and fight for my beliefs, however far contrived from your non-beliefs.

You aren't standing up for your beliefs, you are attacking ours.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 21 Apr 2005 07:39

Satan's presence is tearing you all off course. I will not sit hear reading this none-existance propaganda and not fight and bash you for bashing God.

I will fight to the death for religious freedom, but that does not include abstaining from it (Atheism).

Atheism is not a religion, it is a cop out. You are willing choosing nothingness. I find that lazy and void of morals, not matter who is holding you accountable. In the end (death) you have nothing to look forward to nor anything to be accountable for. How can I live side by side with you knowing you have no belief system at all???

I simply cannot. Sorry

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 21 Apr 2005 07:41

By bashing God you are empowering terrorists, you are empowering the wicked, and you are serving Satan.

footbinc · Post by **footbinc** » 21 Apr 2005 08:03

Sorry no sway here. Atheists are ignorant. Even the educated ones. Waking up every morning and looking out your own set of eyes should be enough for you to believe that you are not in control nor are any humans, and that someone or something greater than youself exists. You are nothing more than an egotist.

Im glad im seeing the real world for the first time. Now that Im unhooked from the machines, I can really make a difference.

Neo

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 21 Apr 2005 08:07

I think it's probably unfair to say that atheism has no belief system. I have some very strong beliefs that I try my best to adhere to.

I believe that it is wrong to harm other people.

There are all different kinds of ways you can harm people. Sometimes when a person is dieing - you will cause more harm by letting them die. Forcing your will onto somebody else can harm them - but sometimes it can also help them. Different situations require different solutions and the right answer is often not clear.

Atheism is a very broad term. It's like dividing the world into all people who believe in something supernatural and all those who don't. I think it would be very unfair of me to compare you to somebody like Osama Bin Ladin - clearly you have different beliefs to him. In the same way - there are all kinds of different atheists. Atheism can breed materialism. It can also bring about nihilism which in my case has led me to believe that material possessions are worthless. Clearly my views are completely contradictorily to that of a materialist.

I understand how you feel and sympathize with it. I think you will continue to feel anger on this topic until you learn that you can't control how other people think and there will always be people who don't think about issues in the same way that you do.

Imagine how boring life would be if everybody believed exactly the same stuff. I couldn't live in such an environment.

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 21 Apr 2005 08:07

FlexThis wrote:In the end (death) you have nothing to look forward to nor anything to be accountable for. How can I live side by side with you knowing you have no belief system at all???

I don't need to worry about what happens in the end. I worry (don't worry, really) about what's happening now. In the end I knw the nutrients from by body will provide nurishment (sp?) for some other form of life. I'm very content to know I will be helping in the life of something else after I pass.

As for a belief system, I really don't understand why our views on one particular subject would prevent you from peacefully living side by side with us. The attorney I work for is VERY religious and we get along perfectly fine. She knows my belief and I (obviously) know hers.

If it makes you more comfortable to think I/we have a belief system (I can't speak for everybody) consider mine science.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 21 Apr 2005 08:16

By having such a broad belief structure or lack thereof, you might as well be a politican. You can pick and choose what is right or wrong on a whem.

No discipline - no coherence. That doesn't sustain you as a people, it divides you.

You can live how ever you want, I will still lump you into a catergory I'd rather do without. That doesn't make me Hitler, it makes me aware of your non-awareness which guides me around your obstacles. I will simply side step your position and advance my own. I don't want any converts, just stop bashing my God by calling the bible Fairy tales [Jeremy, looking in your direction].

Mother goose is a fairy tale. Little Jack Horner, now there's a story worth believing

.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 21 Apr 2005 08:29

Here's my philosophy: you're born, you live, and you die. Don't be an asshole to others inbetween birth and death (unless you have to). I think this quote should do it:

"Be excellent to each other...dude."

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 21 Apr 2005 08:31

FlexThis wrote:You guys are a bunch of sensitive pansy ass whiners.

So in my eyes that makes you a NON-Believer (excuse me mister panties in a wad), and not worthy of my admiration nor respect.

You might as well be a moral vegetable.

yes I hope I have stepped on toes.

a mere mortal who holds his morals true only to himself is a selfish individual and not worth a moments respect.

By bashing God you are empowering terrorists, you are empowering the wicked, and you are serving Satan.

I don't want any converts, just stop bashing my God by calling the bible Fairy tales [Jeremy, looking in your direction].

I'm sorry you found my reference to fairy tales offensive. I'm not sorry I said it - that's how I feel about the bible - that they are mythology - possibly very loosely based on some real events. If you find my opinion offensive that is indeed a shame and something to sympathise with. Personally I rather enjoyed reading your comments that I've quoted - although I can't say that I agree with them. I think this discussion has shown that different people have different opinions. I think I probably already knew that...

sen · Post by **sen** » 21 Apr 2005 08:39

As you may of noticed I quit discussing this sometime yesterday.
Mostly because I had no acsess to the net over night and becasue I realized it was pointless to try and argue with people who do not want to see my side of things and whose views I obviously don't agree with. It's pointless to sit here and argue. Last night I did, however, look up some information on the Ark and the Flood to answer the questions posed by someone in a link (sorry I forget who it was). If anyone would like to see them just let me know.

Edit: I would also like to say that I am sorry if I offended anyone and that it was not my intention to push my views and beliefs on anyone, even if that is the way it it seemed.

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 21 Apr 2005 08:49

FlexThis wrote:My intolerance is warranted by my belief that atheism leads to anarchy.

That's really bullshit.
Please do me the favor and define anarchy without looking into an encyclopedia !

Yesterday I've seen a movie about religous people in combucha who aren't going to a doctor because they had to ask the ghosts and they told them not to go. dozens died in that doc.

Hope that shit (self-limiting, riskful belief) ends some day and people aren't dying because of ignorance or faith (which often is the same imo)

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 21 Apr 2005 08:53

Flex,

You need to actually study atheist beliefs and philosophies, the United States is founded upon them. Lack of God is not the same thing as lack of morality. Much the same as belief in God does not create morality as if evident from the crimes committed in the name of God from the middle ages to modern times.

I can think of examples of Christians terrorist, Hindu terrorist, Muslim terrorists, and Bhuddist terrorist . . . . I can't think of an example of an atheist terrorist.

Can You ?

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 21 Apr 2005 09:02

Now now Cameron I never said religion wasn't flawed.

I am simply stating Atheism is a cop out, and that choosing not to believe is a crock of crap. Atheism is wrong and I don't need a book or a research paper on the subject to change my mind.

So to answer your responce.

a... no I will not research atheism that would be pointless. What devine spirtual enlightment could possible come from nothingness???

~I'm done arguing with you people - may God have mercy on your souls, or lack thereof.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 21 Apr 2005 09:06

Sorry no sway here. Atheists are ignorant. Even the educated ones. Waking up every morning and looking out your own set of eyes should be enough for you to believe that you are not in control nor are any humans, and that someone or something greater than youself exists. You are nothing more than an egotist.

You are personifying others beliefs to be your own true fears. Don't take your insecurity out on others.

Intolerance is the last defense of the insecure.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 21 Apr 2005 09:14

FlexThis wrote:What devine spirtual enlightment could possible come from nothingness???

There is a whole lot of texts on the importance of nothingness, I would suggest you read some. These texts do not intefere with my belief that there is no concious god, and they won't interfere with your biblical beliefs either.

I've selected mostly comic books and easy reading so you won't have to spend a lot fo time getting to understand the value of nothingness.

Shouts of Nothingness -- TSAI CHIH CHUNG, BRIAN BRUYA (Translator)
The Tao of Pooh, and The Te of Piglet --Benjamin Hoff
Zhuangzi Speaks --SAI CHIH CHUNG, BRIAN BRUYA (Translator)
The Tao Speaks : Lao-Tzu's Whispers of Wisdom -- SAI CHIH CHUNG, BRIAN BRUYA (Translator)

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 21 Apr 2005 09:18

No thanks! I only need book, I think you know which one.