Hip Hop Culture

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 16 Mar 2005 16:56

I'm terribly sorry, but this issue has gone 'un-fixed' for too long, and it's not just being dimissed as 'not a big deal.' I didn't want to fuck with the CSS6 Video thread anymore, so it's moved here.

Nagasake wrote:
Stephen Barnes wrote:Rap is hip hop, but hip hop is not rap. HipHop is a culture, a movement, of which Rap is a musical outlet. HipHop encompasses other things, such as graffiti, breakdancing, and scratching. I don't know why people have become infatuated with comparing Rap and HipHop as two different kinds of music, because HipHop is not music specifically. If it's rap, it's just rap.
When people make this comparison, they're usually calling bloated, corporate rap 'rap' and underground and alternative rap 'hip-hop'. There's a big difference between the two.

Rap is a style of vocalization, which both "bloated, corporate rap" and "underground and alternative rap" have in common, and it's not really necessary to misuse other terms in order to differentiate between the two. Hoity-toity white guys who like rap that they deem "intelligent" (I'm assuming because they have boring beats and mediocre lyrics with muddy flow) want to differentiate between the two, because they don't want to be confused with the "other" rap fans. The other rap fans who listen to music deemed "unintelligent" by pompous white boys, because it raps about the streets, about HipHop culture.
FACT (as in, "This is not up for debate, because it is the absolute truth."):
Hip Hop - A name for the culture of inner-city black youth in the late 70's, the elements of which include turntablism, graffiti, emceeing (RAPPING), and breakdancing.
Rap - A musical outlet of this culture.

"Rap is something you do; Hip Hop is something you live."
-KRS One

However, I think you were probably well aware of what James was trying to communicate and just used it as an opening to cite some unimportant differentiation over nomenclature of all things.

Of course I know what he meant, but he's wrong--not to rag on James. This isn't "some unimportant differentiation over nomenclature." These terms have specific definitions; they mean two very different things. I'm sick of people misusing the term 'Hip Hop' to mean the kind of rap music they like, when, in reality, there is no genre of music called Hip Hop.
It's all rap music, so get over yourselves and your holier-than-thou attitudes.

I agree with James that there's a big difference between 'rap' and 'hip-hop'

Yes, there is. "Rap is something you do; Hip Hop is something you live."

and that 'hip-hop' can be fantastic for shred videos, as shown by... 90% of Evan Lovely's videos?

Now this just doesn't make any sense. They're all beats, man, the "positive, enlightening" lyrics shouldn't make any difference. Shit, polka and funk are both pretty good for shred videos, too.

Stephen

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 16 Mar 2005 19:08

Yikes, I'm reading this a few hours later and it sounds really harsh. I wrote it after coming home from school, so I was probably pissed off or aggravated about something (like my current footbag game).
Yeah, it's not really a big deal, but come on, be reasonable with your vocabulary.

Stephen

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 16 Mar 2005 19:10

I don't really care to talk about hip hop culture, as it's not something I've experienced, and it's not something I believe I have any right to talk as if I know something about it. Frankly, I don't think anyone here cares enough or is of the point of view to argue the points you've made. I find it kind of obscene that you've made a topic of your own to try and shred an argument I made to pieces instead of just PMing me.

However, your last two comment I will address. How does what I said not make sense? James was saying that he tends to like this type of hip hop paired up with shred videos versus the top 40 variety. I agree with him. I cited Evan Lovely's videos as an example of why I think this. Does this mean that I don't like any other music with shred videos? No, not all. The best two videos music-wise I've seen were the FFO warm-up and final shred videos, of which went from turntablism to rock to Finnish folk music to something else (can't remember what). When trying to rip apart someone's argument you don't really need to touch on EVERYTHING, there is a point of excess.

Oh, also,

Yes, there is. "Rap is something you do; Hip Hop is something you live."

Please reread my comment and acknowledge the quotations around rap and hip-hop.

Peace,[/quote]

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 16 Mar 2005 19:15

edit: I see no reason as to why I was being unreasonable with my vocabulary in the post you quoted. I explicitly stated that I was not talking about hip-hop culture and don't care to. Maybe I just wasn't clear enough to keep self-righteous posters off my ass. Next time I'll watch it more carefully, thanks Stephen.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I really don't appreciate this type of post.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 16 Mar 2005 19:15

So wait... Sam hates black people?

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 16 Mar 2005 19:18

Nagasake wrote:edit: I see no reason as to why I was being unreasonable with my vocabulary in the post you quoted. I explicitly stated that I was not talking about hip-hop culture and don't care to. Maybe I just wasn't clear enough to keep self-righteous posters off my ass. Next time I'll watch it more carefully, thanks Stephen.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I really don't appreciate this type of post.

Euhm... thanks for accepting my apology.

So wait... Sam hates black people?

Hmm?

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 16 Mar 2005 19:30

Apology accepted.

What... Stephen Barnes thinks he has the grounds to talk about hip hop culture because he listens to hip hop?

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 17 Mar 2005 02:15

Listen.. people be askin me all the time,
'Yo Mos, what's gettin ready to happen with Hip-Hop?'
(Where do you think Hip-Hop is goin?)
I tell em, 'You know what's gonna happen with Hip-Hop?
Whatever's happening with us'
If we smoked out, Hip-Hop is gonna be smoked out
If we doin alright, Hip-Hop is gonna be doin alright
People talk about Hip-Hop like it's some giant livin in the
hillside
comin down to visit the townspeople
We *are* Hip-Hop
Me, you, everybody, we are Hip-Hop
So Hip-Hop is goin where we goin
So the next time you ask yourself where Hip-Hop is goin
ask yourself.. where am I goin? How am I doin?
Til you get a clear idea
So.. if Hip-Hop is about the people
and the.. Hip-Hop won't get better until the people get better
then how do people get better? (Hmmmm...)

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 17 Mar 2005 13:09

"I guess at this critical juncture, y'all are expecting some answers to a few pertinent and burning questions.
You know.. what's getting ready to happen with hip hop Lou?
Yo Lou what's getting ready to happen with hip hop man? What's gettin ready?
So I tell em, You know what's gonna happen with hiphop? You know what's going to happen? Yea I'll tell em, whatever the FUCK i say."

-Lous Logic

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 28 Apr 2005 18:10

(I'm assuming because they have boring beats and mediocre lyrics with muddy flow)

What artists are you referring to?

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 28 Apr 2005 18:27

Aesop Rock/Cannibal Ox/El-P/Blockhead, Sage Francis (though he seems more like a spoken word artist than a rapper, in my opinion), all that.
I actually don't mind them much, but you really can't compare them to artists such as Mos Def, Jay-Z, Nas, Biggie, T. Kweli, Eminem, Wu-Tang, etc.

And don't get me wrong, I respect them as artists, it's just a lot of their fans I know who flaunt the fact that they listen to "Underground Hip Hop" because they don't rap about booze, beer, and bitches, as if they evoke some kind of profound (and elite) spiritual understanding by listening to these "intelligent" rappers.

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 28 Apr 2005 18:47

I'm sort of surprised that you would group Talib Kweli and Mos Def in with Jay-Z instead of Aesop Rock and Sage Francis. I know they're big and mainstream, but their sound has a lot more in common with the "underground" musicians.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 28 Apr 2005 18:54

I know what you mean, but I think those two--Mos Def especially--have seriously sick beats and very intriguing lyrical content. They also put together very sweet albums that are good for listening to all in one session rather than a few hit singles (i.e. Black Star, Black on Both Sides, Reflection Eternal).

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 28 Apr 2005 20:11

but I think those two--Mos Def especially--have seriously sick beats and very intriguing lyrical content

woah woah now! are you saying that sage francis and aesop rock don't have sick beats and intriguing lyrical content, and Jay-Z does? 99 Problems Jay-Z? (not that that's a bad song, or album, but please...).

One of the thing I like most about underground hiphop is that their beats are different and their lyrics are intelligent and interesting. I'd rather listen to any Buck 65 album (even though his new stuff sorta bugs me for some reason) than any Wu-Tang album (even though their shit was "the bomb" in terms of intensity).

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 28 Apr 2005 20:22

junkyardjew wrote:
but I think those two--Mos Def especially--have seriously sick beats and very intriguing lyrical content
woah woah now! are you saying that sage francis and aesop rock don't have sick beats and intriguing lyrical content, and Jay-Z does?

Yes. Aesop Rock has muddy boring beats and lazy, sloppy lyrical flow. I can appreciate the messages he's trying to convey (to some extent), but I don't enjoy listening to him mumble along his verse.

99 Problems Jay-Z?

Have you ever listened to The Blueprint?

One of the thing I like most about underground hiphop is that their beats are different and their lyrics are intelligent and interesting.

Yeah, seriously, but intelligent and interesting lyrics don't mean anything when you have no interesting beats or flow to your rhymes.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 28 Apr 2005 22:08

Have you ever listened to The Blueprint?

Just sounds stupid When KRS already made an album called Blueprint

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 29 Apr 2005 04:19

BainbridgeShred wrote:KRS already made an album called Blueprint

You sure about that?

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 29 Apr 2005 05:23

KRS-One has an album titled, "Ghetto Music: The Blueprint of Hip Hop."

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 29 Apr 2005 11:05

I'm a big fan of real music, unfortunately most of the mainstream stuff is too focused on money making and has been changed into more of a product than an artform.

I just feel that the underground scene has more real serious artists than money makers. I would never say I like "underground" better than "mainstream" because Im a big fan of NOT generalizing music. I can say though that one "genre" (uggh) has more emotion, and character than the other.

I also tend to lean towards music I can relate to, and as much as I love BIG, Jay-z, tupac, Nas, wu tang, and other artists who grew up in the ghetto and made it big when rap took off, I can't relate to them as much as some twentysomething party kids who get hammered and smoke pot and contemplate life. haha it's the sad sad truth.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 29 Apr 2005 11:11

Also I'd like to point out that the new Atmosphere album se7en headshots is very good! It comes with a bonus disc of a bunch of kickass atmosphere tracks from the last ten years. It's good to hear slug focus more on having fun on his album rather than ego stroking or whining over a girl hehe.