On Religion

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 28 Apr 2005 20:06

its obvious that there isnt actual certainty among a group of people if individual sub-groups dont agree whatsoever

that's a pretty falacious argument. i think it was pretty clear that what i was saying is that those "individual sub-groups" who don't agree whatsoever each believe with absolute certainty that they are right.

not to mention there is no such thing as too much certainty...its like too much death, or too pregnant, except this is a positive thing

I'm not sure why you would think this... Can you really think of no time at which too much certainty could be a bad thing? just to take one random example... when you're wrong?

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 29 Apr 2005 00:07

-> religious people tend to assimilate
->non-religious people tend to assimilate

if you want to investigate humans tendency to assimilate you should not only look at religion. Look at the best examples : Hitler, Stalin, Mao.
Assimilation ain't inherently religion-caused, it's just often an excuse for it

I think there is no real difference between our opinions, you just think I try to "defend" crusades of any kind and I say that crusades have not to be religious. You can talk for years about religious aggression without getting to any point, because it's not the religion that makes people do such shit. That's why I didn't say that I'm anti-christian up to know as it's more likely to be understood the wrong way. I'm not against christianity or any other big religion (well, maybe in a philosophic way) I'm against the way the majority interprets it.

Got my point ? If you do, tell me what you don't like

BrianP · Post by **BrianP** » 06 May 2005 23:24

There are a few main reasons I don't particularily like religion. First, religion as an explanitory tool is a relic from a time when science was unable to give us satisfactory answers to most questions about why our environment behaves the way it does, and now that we extremely well researched answers to most of these questions (or at least have some insight into how we can find the answers), people still cling to a system whereby they can avoid actually thinking about these kinds of things. Second, for those who do believe in some kind of God or creator or whatnot, most religions claim to have absolute answers towards what that creator/creative force wants. There are a crapload of religions and ALL of them were created by people. So though many good insights may be gained from the spiritual wisdom of one individual, it is severly narrow-minded to take the view that that individual or set of individuals offers the only way to a spiritual existance. Lastly, I was a double religion/philosophy major in college and it gave me multiple f-ing migraines. Peace out folks.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 17 May 2005 04:38

Tsiangkun wrote:Okay, so there is this omipotent God in space watching over his favorite creation, humans, and he see's them killing each other over minor differences in the scripture he gave each culture.

How come God doesn't care to inform the planet on which is the one true religion ?

If God himself doesn't care to come and clarify the minor differences, why does man think they are worth dying over ?

God does care enough to show us how we should live, he sent his son Jesus to live a perfect life so that we can learn from him. Maybe you should read the bible and you can see this for yourself?
The reason God does not simply stop the destruction on earth is because he has given us free will to decide for ourselves what we do.
Think of it this way, what would you rather have, a child who loves you dearly even though he has the ability not to, or a robot you have bulit to love you, which exibits all the signs of love but is not able to choose not to love you?

I have not read this whole topic, this post just stood out to me.

I think Ben Skaggs is right in everything he said.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 17 May 2005 08:13

the bible as much sense as any other document that has been translated dozens of times by man.

Why doesn't your God care enough to give you orders in your own language ?
Why did your God take the time to give the muslims a text in their native tonque ?
Why does your God force you to put complete faith in the abilities of man to translate archaic languages into modern languages without change in meaning ?

delakong · Post by **delakong** » 17 May 2005 09:08

Because god works i mysterious ways

or the other famous christian explination

No man can understand the workings of god

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 17 May 2005 09:29

BalinorNZ wrote: Think of it this way, what would you rather have, a child who loves you dearly even though he has the ability not to, or a robot you have bulit to love you, which exibits all the signs of love but is not able to choose not to love you?

Think of it this way, would you rather have a parent who never talks to you, never shows interest in you, and never interacts with you ; or would you rather have a parent that lets you know when they are pleased, when you have dissappointed them, and what they expect of you in an interactive format where you can express your point of view and get a response ?

I think it's foolish to expect a child to love a parent that has not been nurturing the childs development throughout their life.

*LINE*
<--- read here.
*LINE*

professor · Post by **professor** » 17 May 2005 12:06

Once again this is from the Bible not me.

Why doesn't your God care enough to give you orders in your own language ?

26 Then Eliakim, Shebna, and Joah told the official, "Speak Aramaic to us, sir. We understand it. Don't speak Hebrew; all the people on the wall are listening." 2 Kings 18:26

20 Many people read it, because the place where Jesus was crucified was not far from the city. The notice was written in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek. John 19:20

Ok simply, the old testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic because the people who wrote it spoke Hebrew and Aramaic. The new testament was written in Greek (+ quotes from Jesus in Aramaic) because the people who wrote it spoke Greek. It's as simple as that, not because God didn't care but because at that time that's what people spoke.

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Why did your God take the time to give the muslims a text in their native tonque ?

15 and you remember that ever since you were a child, you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living, 17 so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed. 2 Timothy 3:15-17

6 yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live. 1 Corinthians 8:6

The fact is that God did not give muslims a text. It says in 2 Timothy that the Scriptures give wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Jesus. The Quran, the text you are referring to, does not believe you should put faith in Jesus but only belive in allah and his apostles. (Quran 4:171) So by the definition of Scripture, the Quran is not Scripture.

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Why does your God force you to put complete faith in the abilities of man to translate archaic languages into modern languages without change in meaning ?

God does not force anyone to put complete faith in man's translation. The reason is, if I wanted to I can go out and learn Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. I can then go and read the original language of the Bible. But I chose to trust that the translations are correct. Since all the true translations are essentially the same I can trust that they are correctly and accurately translated

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Think of it this way, would you rather have a parent who never talks to you, never shows interest in you, and never interacts with you ; or would you rather have a parent that lets you know when they are pleased, when you have dissappointed them, and what they expect of you in an interactive format where you can express your point of view and get a response ?

I think it's foolish to expect a child to love a parent that has not been nurturing the childs development throughout their life.

1 "So please, Job, hear me out, honor me by listening to me. 2 What I'm about to say has been carefully thought out. 3 I have no ulterior motives in this; I'm speaking honestly from my heart. 4 The Spirit of God made me what I am, the breath of God Almighty gave me life! God Always Answers, One Way or Another 5 "And if you think you can prove me wrong, do it. Lay out your arguments. Stand up for yourself! 6 Look, I'm human - no better than you; we're both made of the same kind of mud. 7 So let's work this through together; don't let my aggressiveness overwhelm you.

8 "Here's what you said. I heard you say it with my own ears. 9 You said, 'I'm pure - I've done nothing wrong. Believe me, I'm clean - my conscience is clear. 10 But God keeps picking on me; he treats me like I'm his enemy. 11 He's thrown me in jail; he keeps me under constant surveillance.' 12 "But let me tell you, Job, you're wrong, dead wrong! God is far greater than any human. 13 So how dare you haul him into court, and then complain that he won't answer your charges?

14 God always answers, one way or another, even when people don't recognize his presence. 15 "In a dream, for instance, a vision at night, when men and women are deep in sleep, fast asleep in their beds - 16 God opens their ears and impresses them with warnings 17 To turn them back from something bad they're planning, from some reckless choice, 18 And keep them from an early grave, from the river of no return.

19 "Or, God might get their attention through pain, by throwing them on a bed of suffering, 20 So they can't stand the sight of food, have no appetite for their favorite treats. 21 They lose weight, wasting away to nothing, reduced to a bag of bones. 22 They hang on the cliff-edge of death, knowing the next breath may be their last. 23 "But even then an angel could come, a champion - there are thousands of them! - to take up your cause, 24 A messenger who would mercifully intervene, canceling the death sentence with the words: 'I've come up with the ransom!' 25 Before you know it, you're healed, the very picture of health! 26 "Or, you may fall on your knees and pray - to God's delight! You'll see God's smile and celebrate, finding yourself set right with God. 27 You'll sing God's praises to everyone you meet, testifying, 'I messed up my life - and let me tell you, it wasn't worth it. 28 But God stepped in and saved me from certain death. I'm alive again! Once more I see the light!'

29 "This is the way God works. Over and over again 30 He pulls our souls back from certain destruction so we'll see the light - and live in the light! Job 33:1-30

4 It is clear to us, friends, that God not only loves you very much but also has put his hand on you for something special. 1 Thessalonians 1:4

34 "The One that God sent speaks God's words. And don't think he rations out the Spirit in bits and pieces. 35 The Father loves the Son extravagantly. He turned everything over to him so he could give it away - a lavish distribution of gifts. 36 That is why whoever accepts and trusts the Son gets in on everything, life complete and forever! And that is also why the person who avoids and distrusts the Son is in the dark and doesn't see life. All he experiences of God is darkness, and an angry darkness at that." John 3:34-36

I was very sad to read this post. God loves each of us more than we can imagine. We could never love God or anyone else more than God loves us. God is involved in our lives everyday, it's just that sometimes we don't see it. If you look for God you will find him working in more ways than you could dream. God speaks to us through Christ and the Bible. He doesn't ignore us, he gave us the best example of how to live; Christ. The Bible is our handbook for life. It tells us everything we need to know inorder to live our lives the best way. So I'm sorry if you feel God has not been there for you in your life, but I promise you he has and he would never leave.

5 ...God assured us, "I'll never let you down, never walk off and leave you," Hebrews 13:5

idain · Post by **idain** » 17 May 2005 12:42

Regarding religion:

1) I don't see why a "perfect creator" is necessary for the universe to exist. It seems much simpler to me to cut out the middle-man.

2) I take a sort of Ayn Randian view when it comes to religion: why should I look for meaning somewhere else, when I can be my own means and my own end?

3) As an atheist, I don't have any uncertainty about life-after-death - there is none. I don't have to worry about heaven or hell. It makes things simpler.

4) I don't have to worry about why an all-perfect creator allows there to be misery in the world. There just is, as a byproduct of our actions or of nature.

5) If being a religious person isn't necessary to be a good person, and religious people can also be bad people, religious isn't necessarily a root to morality. Therefore: what's the point?

6) If I can have religious friends, but be an atheist still, and they don't hold it against me, I don't need religion to feel community.

7) It's much easier to believe in myself because I know I exist, than to believe in something that was written well-over 2000 years ago (old testament) and has undergone numerous translations.

Furthermore: regarding the accuracy of original language texts - unless you find an absolutely original new testament written in greek by the original author (probably very rare if they even still exist), it's unlikely that you can have absolute certainty that it was transcribed accurately.

btw Ben - Your sig is great.