Drug talk on Modified

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 04 May 2005 00:42

Recently there have been some topics on Modified that have been somewhat disturbing. The Salvia thread and the Morning Glory Seed thread being the two most recent.
Personally I thought it was a bit much to dedicate more than one thread to weed. As an online footbag community member I (and others) wonder to what extent drug topics should really be discussed.

I am by no means a prude and have done more than enough drugs to back it up. Even so, I consider there to be a line between what you do and how you present yourself. In the case of Modified, I consider it representing the larger community.

So what image do we as a community wish to present?

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 04 May 2005 07:20

We can only present our true image. If people want to keep starting threads about weed, then they will, unless you choose to become a strictor moderator. I don't think you should do this. But, starting a thread like this is a good idea. Still, there will be new players who don't use the search function.

It's okay. Even if there are 10 threads about weed, there are still hundreds about footbag.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 May 2005 07:31

I think it's pretty likely that having topics about drugs and other legal behaviour in the context that they are in on this forum does give footbag a slightly bad image. I think it would be very small - probably only 1 or 2 people have ever seen those topics and been put off by it - maybe even less.

However I'm also opposed to pretty much all censorship - unless you are censoring something that is really inappropriate and doesn't add anything to a discussion. So I don't want to see any topics about drugs locked - I just don't want people to start them - but if they do, I certainly won't do anything about it. I have used and still occasionally use some recreational drugs - I don't hide this fact. I just don't really think it should be discussed on this forum considering the ages of the people on the forum and the fact that there are lots of new people to footbag.

I think the image of footbag - especially in North America is one of stoner hippies. Talking about drugs does not help change this image and it's not the image I want for the sport.

james · Post by **james** » 04 May 2005 07:39

I say die and let die

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 04 May 2005 09:57

1. Splint and Jeremy are right about the "community image" thing.

Jeremy doesn't like the stoner hippie image of kickers in N.America, and I(and others) hate it also.

2. Censorship sucks, but I would suggest putting those threads and posts somewhere on Modified ,viewable or searchable, ONLY by registered or logged-in members.

Why have those discussions out in the open for all the world to see?

It could immediately taint the image of footbag for any person who finds Modified as their first "intro" to footbag.

3. It's best to self-censor when talking about these dope topics.

What if the brilliant politicians launch a new "Drug war"?

"Drugs fund terrorism", will be the mantra. Users will be charged under the Patriot Act for conspiracy.

-n

mc · Post by mc » 04 May 2005 10:29

i'm generally against censorship as well, but I locked morning glory and I hope that doesn't misrepresent the general opinion of the mods.

I'm in favor of good representation of footbag and the footbag community. If people want to post about their drug experiences, modified isn't the place to do it.

I'd hate to think that the parent of some younger player would get curious about what their kid is doing online, poke around modified, make one click on a sub forum, and then decide that their kid should not be involved with footbag or the footbag community because we are a bunch of drug using / encouraging / advocating hippies that are dangerous to their baby's wellbeing, just because it was so important for Kicker X to post a pic of his pipe. If people want to see and post drug pipes, they can see some of the most incredible art I've ever had the privelege of checking out for free at (www.glasspipes.org).

There are lots of great informational sites about drugs and drug use with plenty of places to read of or post your own experiences. (www.erowid.org) is the one I usually recommend, because it's comprehensive and I can remember the name.

If my parents had come online when I was a kid and read the kind of things we write in our drugs and drug use threads, I would have had to put up with a LOT more nonsense about being a footbag player and going to events than I already did in my teen years. I don't want that for anyone, and if that means someone has to go to a *more reputable, organized site intended for this type of discussion* to get their information or share their experiences, I can't say I feel too bad about that.

sen · Post by **sen** » 04 May 2005 12:05

i agree with Matt.

There are places to talk about drugs. Modified.ca shouldn't (imo) be one fo those places. this is a forum and community for footbag players and kids shouldn't have to worry about parent's reading stuff like this and getting them or the sport in trouble.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 04 May 2005 12:37

QuantumBalance wrote:We can only present our true image. If people want to keep starting threads about weed, then they will, unless you choose to become a strictor moderator.

There was more than one person who thought that this topic should be addressed. I voiced concern to Brad K. because I saw two people talking comfortably and openly about heroine in one of the drug threads, which I think is completely irresponsible and uncalled for on this forum. If it was decided that Modified as a whole would try to limit explicit drug topics, I think people would get the drift and respect it if they understood the reasons. We are all capable of change, especially if it is to help footbag as a whole.

There are forums specifically dedicated to drugs for a reason. If a bunch of footbaggers decided to go to the same site, they would still be able to talk about it with their footbag friends. That way, they could do it in a safe, appropriate environment where people would have more experience/knowledge AND it wouldn't do anything negative to the image of footbag. I agree that the aim should be self-censorship (using one's own good judgment) but talking about hard drugs is completely inappropriate here.

That said, I also think talking about "the war on drugs," legalization (**seek decriminalization before legalization. remember, baby steps…**), etc. should be allowed in the appropriate area on Modified.

If we don't like it that the general population sees footbag and immediately thinks "Stoner Hippies," we should actively try change our image for the better, rather than let it get worse. Yeah, a lot of people on this forum do drugs, drink, whatever. But use some sense when deciding what to talk about.
______________
Emily Kulczyk

"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." --Thomas S. Szasz (Hungarian psychiatrist and professor of Psychiatry Emeritus at State University of New York Health Science Center in Syracuse, b.1920)

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 04 May 2005 13:52

Matt said:
-----------------------------------------
I'd hate to think that the parent of some younger player would get curious about what their kid is doing online, poke around modified, make one click on a sub forum, and then decide that their kid should not be involved with footbag or the footbag community (...........)
----------------------------------

This was one of my exact thoughts when composing my post. Congrats to Matt for the mind-read.

It's possible that the "image" will be endlessly re-enforced by the unskilled and unmotivated, as an excuse for why they could never do this difficult sport.

Typical bystander:

"Ah..... that's just a stoner game, there is no reason for me to ever try, or even think about performing at that level of intensity."

-n

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 04 May 2005 14:44

I'm in favor of good representation of footbag and the footbag community. If people want to post about their drug experiences, modified isn't the place to do it.

There are also a lot of political forums out there, does this mean that their should not be a discussion section here on modified?

I'd hate to think that the parent of some younger player would get curious about what their kid is doing online, poke around modified, make one click on a sub forum, and then decide that their kid should not be
involved with footbag or the footbag community because we are a bunch of drug using / encouraging / advocating hippies that are dangerous to their baby's wellbeing

I'd also hate to think that a parent of some younger player would look at one of Jeremy O'Wheel's posts in the discussion section and think their kid shouldn't be involved in footbag because the community is a bunch of terrorist loving, American hating Australians. Different things will be offensive to different people as Damon proved a week ago. Even if a thread has been reduced to mindless insults, it should not be locked. Locking threads is tantamount to saying "We want to maintain a false idea about the footbag community so that certain people wont be offended". In any community, their will be assholes and people who are assholes back to those assholes and so on, and this should not be hidden or deleted or locked or anything of the sort.

I voiced concern to Brad K. because I saw two people talking comfortably and openly about heroine in one of the drug threads, which I think is completely irresponsible and uncalled for on this forum.

Who cares if you find it irresponsible for someone to talk about heroine on this forum? A lot of people would say it is irresponsible for me to smoke weed in the privacy of my own home. What is deemed irresponible by you might be standard conversation for others, and you should respect that, whether they're talking about heroine or animal porn.

I'm in favor of good representation of footbag and the footbag community. If people want to post about their drug experiences, modified isn't the place to do it.

Technically, modified isn't the place for Fournier to post his poetry either, especially not in the Blog section.

I looked around at www.erowid.org to try and find a forum, but it was annoying to navigate and I couldn't find it. Regardless, I'm sure, assuming they do have a forum, they have sub-forums where people can post about things not pertaining to drugs. If I went in there and posted a message saying "He look at this cool video of Footbaging" I would hope people wouldn't redirect me to www.modified.ca, assuming I posted it in the correct sub-forum.

HG · Post by HG » 04 May 2005 15:55

Dan, that was one of the most ignorant posts ever.

You think that a parent reading a political debate would drive their kid away from footbag, just the same as reading a drug discussion?

That ridiculous. Dont use metaphors like that if you havent thought them out. Political debates, and discussions about drugs/heroine/pipes ARE NOT THE SAME THING! I am not a drug user, and hate reading about people who do them on Modified.

If you want to defend your drugs, go make a thread and make up some retarded arguments in there, not here

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 04 May 2005 16:21

18+ forum?

professor · Post by **professor** » 04 May 2005 16:24

I think this is even a much bigger problem than posting on a forum. IMO drugs are probably the biggest reason footbag has not been given deserved recognition as a sport.

People talk about getting footbag in the Olympics, but that will never happen if people in footbag do drugs and talk so openly about it, like it's a normal thing in footbag. I know some people who have quit footbag, most likely because of the drug issue; I was hesitant to join a club because of it.

I feel if you want to do drugs on your own time then do that, but doing it at competitions, shred sessions, and talking about it online can't be a good thing for the sport.

If you disagree then I would like to hear one good thing that drugs have done to improve footbag as a whole.

cd · Post by cd » 04 May 2005 16:28

Although I think that certain things should be censored, Dan made some very good points. The only real objection most people have with drug talk on modified is that it will give us a bad image. Ideally, we should be able to talk about whatever we want and not worry about the consequences.

However this is a public forum so it should be restricted to whatever's generally found acceptible in public places. If certain forums were made private then things would be different. In that case, I'd then like to see a sub-forum where nothing is censored by mods, at least to see how well it would work.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 04 May 2005 16:53

This is getting way off topic, but...

professor wrote:I think this is even a much bigger problem than posting on a forum. IMO drugs are probably the biggest reason footbag has not been given deserved recognition as a sport.

Snowboarding is an Olympic sport. Skateboarding is on TV all the time and has produced household names. Do you think they have less of a drug image than we do? Hell, a gold medal winner in snowboarding tested positive for MJ a few years back. Ross Rebagliatti or something? There was a little hoopla, but it pretty well ended with 'so what?'. He kept his medal and life went on.

professor wrote:like it's a normal thing in footbag

It's a normal thing everywhere. Do you believe that a greater number of footbaggers are drug users than some random selection from the same demographic? (16 - 24 ish males) I doubt it. You find me a high school sports team that doesn't have its share of stoners and I'll buy you a drink. Find me a College sports team that doesn't have at least one cokehead and a load of stoners then I'll buy you a dozen drinks.

professor wrote:I know some people who have quit footbag, most likely because of the drug issue; I was hesitant to join a club because of it.

Aren't you glad you did? Don't those who quit look silly to you now? Do these people know that there are LOADS of stoners that go to their high school? You should probably let them know, they might want to quit that too. (Ok, that was stupid)

professor wrote:I feel if you want to do drugs on your own time then do that, but doing it at competitions, shred sessions, and talking about it online can't be a good thing for the sport.

Well, I don't really disagree with this. I'm all about letting people live their lives how they want, but there's a lot to be said for good manners.

professor wrote:If you disagree then I would like to hear one good thing that drugs have done to improve footbag as a whole.

Simlpe answer: same thing they do for anything - they're fun. If you don't like that answer, fine, that won't make it less true.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 04 May 2005 16:58

Henry, I find you calling my points "ignorant" and "retarded" to be offensive, irresponsible, and uncalled for. Thus, I have sent a PM to Comrade Kaplan urging him to delete your post, lock this thread immideatly, and ban your account from modified indefinetly. I hope this will show you that your opinions are not tolerated here, as this forum is an ideal representation of everything right with humanit, and that we intend to keep it that way. However, I will address your valid, opinionated points below, although it is possible you will be banned before you have the chance to read them.

You think that a parent reading a political debate would drive their kid away from footbag, just the same as reading a drug discussion?

Matt brang up the idea of "reductio ad absurdum" during one of the recent flame wars with Damon, and clearly this is what I was doing here. Do I think many parents would actually tell their child they couldn't play footbag as a result of Jeremy's political beleifs, no probably not. But I also don't think many parents read modified as a result of seeing their children on it. Assuming their ever was a parent who did see modified, they'd probably be impressed by the maturity of the majority of the community. So basically, it is possible that a parent who is afraid of their kids becoming Liberals would stop their kid from veiwing modified, and it is also possible a parent afraid of their kids becoming junkies would stop their kids from veiwing modified. Is either of them likely? Absolutely not. Thus we shouldn't get bogged down in moot points.

That ridiculous. Dont use metaphors like that if you havent thought them out. Political debates, and discussions about drugs/heroine/pipes ARE NOT THE SAME THING! I am not a drug user, and hate reading about people who do them on Modified.

First of all, it seems you don't know what a metaphor is, so I'll say don't use words like that if you haven't the slightest idea what they mean. Secondly, I realize topics on politics and drugs are not the same, but both should be tolerated with the same respect. I have yet to see a modified user tell another used that "Crank is the shit and you should go out and buy some". Seeing as this is the case, topics on crank should bother you as much as topics differing from your political views. I'm sure a lot of slave owners hating reading textes about abolition, but it doesn't mean these stated textes were wrong.

Henry, the fact is, posts calling other peoples posts "ignorant" and "retarded" are much worse for our sport and community than posts about smoking weed. So if you don't have anything sensible to say, "you can go" post in this http://modified.ca/footbag/viewtopic.ph ... highlight= thread, which it turns out you created.

IMO drugs are probably the biggest reason footbag has not been given deserved recognition as a sport.

Saying this is the biggest reason footbag isn't recognized as a sport is very simplistic and is much a cop out. Footbag isn't recognized because it isn't competetive by nature, and take a long time to get good at. Drugs have very, very, very little to do with it, as most of the major sports have just as big drug problems as Footbag.

I know some people who have quit footbag, most likely because of the drug issue; I was hesitant to join a club because of it.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone quit footbag because of drugs, and it seems you do too with the "most likely" sidenote. And why would you be hesitant to join club because of drugs, afraid you'd bail on a PS Whirl and fall on a needle? C'mon, if you don't want to do drugs, don't do them, no one will care. You should have enough confidence to know you have the restraint not to shoot up during a session. The only reason I can conjure up that you wouldn't want to join a club because of drugs is because you could possibly have the false impression of drug users as being bad people, and you can thank Ronald Reagan for that impression.

If you disagree then I would like to hear one good thing that drugs have done to improve footbag as a whole.

Nothing really, but can you name one good thing censoring drug related topics would to improve footbag as a whole? Your answer will probably be similiar to mine.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 May 2005 17:03

I think the key issue here is that the countries that most of the people on this forum live in - probably all the countries - have outlawed the usage of most recreational drugs.

Is this a good law? I don't really think so - and have no problem discussing it. However to show complete disrespect for those laws definitly creates a bad image. Laws tend to reflect the general views of societies - I think we all live in democracies - if our society didn't think the laws were right they would change them (unless they didn't care).

I'd also hate to think that a parent of some younger player would look at one of Jeremy O'Wheel's posts in the discussion section and think their kid shouldn't be involved in footbag because the community is a bunch of terrorist loving, American hating Australians.

If they choose to interpret my criticism for US foreign policy for "terrorist loving" that's really their problem. I don't believe I've ever encouraged terrorism or any kind of violence for that matter. Certainly I sympathise with the causes of some terrorists but I have always felt that violence does not help their cause and am disgusted by violence torwards anybody. If we were discussing the legalisation of drugs that would be a different matter - any parent who didn't like their children playing a sport where people discussed issues like that would probably be a parent who wouldn't let their children play footbag anyway and I see their is little we can do about it.

As I said - I don't think it's neccessary for the detailed discussion of drug use - or any other illegal behaviour to occur on the forum. This is because I love footbag and care image of the sport. But who am I to decide what is right and wrong - my opinions are just as valid as anybody elses - that's why I won't lock any topics on drugs - however I'll fully support the decisions of any moderators if they do (at least publically). I'm sure there are plenty of forums out there that are dedicated to drug use. You could also discuss footbag at those forums and maybe convert a few people!

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 04 May 2005 17:06

I am not a drug user, and hate reading about people who do them on Modified.

One last thing, I can understand why you wouldn't like reading about people who do drugs, but no one forces you to read the threads. I'm sure a lot of people don't like reading posts about you trying to wipe your ass from back to front or whatever it was you did, and smearing shit on your arm.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 04 May 2005 17:12

If they choose to interpret my criticism for US foreign policy for "terrorist loving" that's really their problem. I don't believe I've ever encouraged terrorism or any kind of violence for that matter. Certainly I sympathise with the causes of some terrorists but I have always felt that violence does not help their cause and am disgusted by violence torwards anybody

Sidenote: I clearly don't view your opinion this way and it would be "their problem". But it would be just as much their problem for thinking that Footbag would be the only way their kids would hear about drugs, in the same way it'd be their problem if they thought modified was the only way they'd hear view points shunning US foriegn policy.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 04 May 2005 17:15

whoa. i agree with dan.
haha, and i understood his use of a metaphor, and found it to be appropriate and accurate. i honestly think things arent too bad as they are right now in terms of innappropriate discussions. the balance we have now seems ok, where we have some discussion of drug use which is ok, and on the other side are the mods deleting posts and locking threads where people go to far. the people posting about drugs know what they are doing, and are aware of the risks of using and/or discussing drugs, and the other people do not have to read a thread if they dont want to (henry). if you see the title of the thread is "my experiences using drugs" and are offended by such talk, DONT CLICK ON IT. as i said, i think the balance we currently have is ok, but if people think it should be changed, then i think sub-forums, or an 18+ rule would work as well, though impractical. it would solve your problem, wouldnt it hen?