Shred 30 in Worlds 2005

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 18 Apr 2005 07:16

But Jon, couldn't the short players to the same trick you choose even faster than you? Shorter players have a faster contact rate than taller ones - it just makes sense.

I hadn't really thought of this before. Shred30 probably should be changed to mean 30 contacts rather than seconds, it'd be a more balanced competition. Is there a decent reason not to?

Air · Post by **Air** » 18 Apr 2005 07:22

Now I'm really confused about x-dex. Some people say it's official and some people say it's not. Could someone who knows for sure say that is it official or not and has it been used in Worlds ever?

Webslinger · Post by **Webslinger** » 18 Apr 2005 07:45

I think I know it because I asked Steve about it at Todexon. Maybe it was used at Worlds XX, but if so, it was a mistake.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 18 Apr 2005 07:55

Shorter players have a faster contact rate than taller ones - it just makes sense.

Newf, it SEEMS to make sense. That doesn't mean its universally true. There will always be differences between competitors. So and so is taller, shorter, faster, stronger, more flexible, or just more talented. We cannot iron out all these differences, its not possible to have a perfectly level playing field when we're talking about a collection of unique individuals (otherwise we'd have to handicap ourselves to match the abilities of the poorest player amoung us, for the sake of fairness). None-the-less, if one chooses to do so, they could employ strategy to make up for some physical disadvantage. I myself like to set my spins pretty high, often above my head. I am trying to learn to set them lower in order to save time, for the sake of shred30. When I'm not doing a shred contest, I still set them high. When I've got a clock running, I try to do them low. Its a matter of choice. If Lon chose to, he could do more tricks in shred 30 instead of complaining that its unfair (the guy who's won the Colorado Shred Symposium shred contest 3 consecutive times is complaining that the shred contest is unfair?).

ps. It is my belief that Mulroney's biggest advantage over the competition wasn't his size, but his fitness. Ryan was simply much more fit than just about anybody else, and simply doesn't get worn out by a few dozen tricks. I find shredding for two minutes consecutively very tiring. In fact, even after a good 30 second run I'll be breathing pretty hard, and find it increasingly difficult to keep the bag in the air. So, are longer contests unfair against the less fit? Should we make routines and shreds shorter to negate the advantage of the most physically fit among us? Or maybe we should just suck it up, quit smoking so much ganja, and try to get ourselves in better shape...

grek · Post by **grek** » 18 Apr 2005 09:04

Yves is definetly not short... but damn, he is one of the best shredderz in the world... also Honza... not to mention, u Lon...

so it not depends on, how tall u are, I think...

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 18 Apr 2005 09:24

The question isn't how good these players are, it's their ratio of contacts / second.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 18 Apr 2005 13:30

It seems very logical to replace 30 seconds with 30 contacts, it doesn't harm anything, rather it makes things more fair universally.

Shredfish · Post by **Shredfish** » 18 Apr 2005 17:18

So basically it'd be like Sick 3 just...longer?

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 18 Apr 2005 19:48

Marginally, if at all.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 18 Apr 2005 21:02

They don't shorten the track for the smaller stride athletes to have a 10000 step race.

ShredOnLawn · Post by **ShredOnLawn** » 07 May 2005 11:25

[(adds / contacts) x unique tricks] + adds = score

Actaully, I lost shred 30 against Vasek because I was too tall to hit 30 contacts and he beat me by 4 points.

Short people don't win the races at the olympics nor are they great basketball players.

Just like how TALL people don't win the Shred 30 at World Championships.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 07 May 2005 11:42

Sorry Lon, but I don't think that "I lost, because I'm too tall" is the right way of thinking.
You should be happy, that you were so close, and that you're able to beat him...
And maybe the reason is yours tricks repertoire? Maybe too much Ducks and Spins?

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 07 May 2005 12:13

I also think that height doesn't have anything to do with shred30 results.. it's the components you use.
Spinning and Ducking need more time than shuffle.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 07 May 2005 12:42

A shitty ripwalk can be done in about two thirds the time as a proper ripwalk. So, players shouldn't try to do proper ripwalks in shred 30 competition. This is a problem, isn't it?

I don't see how people don't understand this, a short player takes less time to do same tricks as a tall player, simple as that. Short shuffle is faster than tall shuffle, short ducking is faster than tall ducking, short anything is faster than tall anything. Do you disagree?

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 07 May 2005 19:36

A fellow up above wrote:And maybe the reason is yours tricks repertoire? Maybe too much Ducks and Spins?

I really, *really* don't like this standpoint.

I've got a feeling that shred will get very boring when everyone realises that spinning and ducking is a waste of time.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 07 May 2005 20:29

I definitly think x dex should be used in shred 30 and I'm glad it has been in the past. Yes there are lots of moves that are hard and don't fall under it - but using the add system for shred 30 is meant to represent the difficulty of the moves - ie the higher the adds the harder the move - otherwise why is it used? All the cheap moves for any add rating do not involve x dex - there are no cheap x dex moves in my opinion. What's easier - ripwalk or atomsmsher? Blurry whirl or dominatrix? If you don't make every effort to have the add system being representative of difficulty what does the shred 30 decide? It doesn't show the technically best shredder, maybe it shows the best add hunter? - the person who does the easiest moves for the highest adds. I was always under the impression that being an add hunter was a bad thing - something we should encourage people not to do.

bob · Post by **bob** » 07 May 2005 21:03

Webslinger wrote:IFPA has never accepted xdex, so it is not official.

can someone verify this? I've talked to many people in the IFPA that do think this is accepted. I'm damn near positive that it was accepted in 2002. IFPA?

ps- in my opinion, shred 30 needs some help. 30 contacts is way better than 30 seconds, it just makes it more fair. Xdex should be added. All double downs are the same.

WV Crew agrees and when it hold events, this will be the way it will be. However, i really wish that the IFPA would step in and regulate this. It's ridiculous we have national competitions where the rules change from year to year. I can't think of any other sport where that happens.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 07 May 2005 22:08

Footbag is a new developing sport, of course it changes year to year.

One thing shred30 does not allow for is style.
Lon has a slow style, ryan has a fast style.
Lon is forced to do his tricks faster in competition and is not able to do his ducks/spins which he is famous for.
Ryan is much quicker and does not delay his clippers as much, he is used to doing a lot of very quick moves, very quickly.

If shred30 where contacts instead of seconds it would allow for styles of any pace. Obviously this is a good change.

Jon Schneider you are normally right, this time however I think not. One of the major problems with sprinting and other sports like it is that body type has so much to do with performance in high level competition. Because of the nature of the sport all the runners run exactly the same and train similarly. This IMO is what sets footbag apart from other sports.

In footbag you can have your own style and you can be good no matter your body shape. Sure you cant iron out all the differences in individuals, but why not try to iron out as many as posible? You cant change your height, but height wouldent matter if it was 30 moves. You can change how strong and fit and fast and flexible you are though and the thing you can change the most is how good you are, so your comment "(otherwise we'd have to handicap ourselves to match the abilities of the poorest player amoung us, for the sake of fairness)" is totaly unwarrented.

One purpose of competition is to encourage people to imrpove, 30seconds encourages people to try to be shorter and have a fast style, even if you like a slow style, sounds pretty silly to me. 30moves on the other hand encourages all the things we should strive for: speed, strength, fittness, flexability, fat/muscle ratio and most of all being the best using your own style.

The aim is to find the best player of any style, not the player with the fastest style.

This is afterall freestyle.

I vote 30 moves.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 07 May 2005 22:11

This is a sub-topic of the main topic and I believe it is very important. I am going to make a poll about it in General Footbag so everyone can participate.

DoctorJay · Post by **DoctorJay** » 08 Jul 2005 09:02

ok how many unique tricks are magellan>pixie op legover > magellan> pixie op legover in helsinki?