Online Shred30 and Routines on modifed.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 14 May 2005 17:33

I was talking to Jorden the other night and he expressed his intrest in having online shred30 and routine competitions like we do sick1 and sick3.

I would be happy to collect the entries and combine them into one big production video for easy of viewing but there are some issues i would like us to address as a comunity.

Routines
1. For 10 2min routines the file size would be over 100mb. This is a real pain for 56k users as they would have to leave it to download over night (if they have that option). Also takes ALOT of work to make a routine and then hit it perfect on camera, and then the judgeing process would take a long time, so it might be a good idea to only run this event once or twice a year?
2. How would we judge it? The comunity vote like we do for sick1&3 and rank the entrys 1 to n? Or have an educated judge who judges the routines properly? If we get the comunity to vote would we be doing justice to the carefully built routines? If we had it properly judged would be comunity really be involved?

Shred 30
Shred30 videos would be 35-40mb for 10 entrys, this is a pretty reasonable file size I think so perhaps the event could be run more often. Also judging would be easy, the current formula would be applied. There are however some issues that need to be discussed first.
1. Will we use x-dex.
2. What is unique? (eg are paradon barfly dod ddd the same move?)
3. Should it be 30contacts or 30seconds? Doing this online kind of take the urgency out of it with a time constraint because you get as many goes as you like to hit your shred30 dropless. On the other hand 30 seconds also means that tall players and those with slow/big styles will be disadvantaged, do we really want to force all the players to do fast moves and have a fast style? I dont know if that is what Shred30 is about.

Please cast your vote and give your opinion on these issues.
Also feel free to raise any other problems I have not thought of.

Thanks for your input!
Nic Bathgate
DFC

(I had just finnished typing out this whole post and then I closed the page accidentily so sorry if i've missed things in my haste to retype it)

enhancement · Post by **enhancement** » 14 May 2005 21:02

Glad to see you finished it Nic

. Not that I would be able to enter I think, but I would just go for shred 30, routines would be way to hard

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 14 May 2005 21:12

I think these would be really hard to do well.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 14 May 2005 22:08

mosher wrote:I think these would be really hard to do well.

Good to see that positive attitude showing through you hastled cole about so much man

Lol dont sweat it, I can handel these comps by myself if they go ahead ^_^.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 14 May 2005 22:21

We should brainstorm sometime.

I think there could be alot of good ideas ironed out.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 14 May 2005 22:56

Sick b2b Trick!!!

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 15 May 2005 14:21

Hmm well it seems that not all that many people are interested in this idea. I do agree that routines would be difficult to do but fun!
I really liked the idea of shred30, I would like to encourage people to hit long strings, not just 3 really hard moves in a row :p.

Anyway, this months sick3 and sick1 competition entrys will close at midnight on the last day of this month! So make sure I have a link to your video or the video itself by then so I can start editing stright away!

footjoe · Post by **footjoe** » 15 May 2005 14:30

The problem I have with this is that people can try as many times as they want to get the routine or shred 30 as perfect as they want to apposed to only one try at tournamanets and stuff so it wouldnt be like legit or somthing

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 15 May 2005 14:44

Think of it this way joe. When we go to a tornement, we dont get handed a bag and with no previous practice allowed be told to do a routine. We all practice long and hard at footbag, that is the secret to being good. Players practice their routines hundreds of times before an event so they can do it perfect when the event comes, doing a routine for camera is just like practicing your routine alot of times to get it perfect. Besides, can you give me one good reason not to encourage players (especially ones that cant attend tournements) to create and perfect routines, an integral part of footbag? I cant.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 15 May 2005 14:49

yeah, thats what i think as well...at VERY LEAST, these competitions are great motivation for kickers to practice hard and come up with kickass routines.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 15 May 2005 19:41

Hmm, firstly, while I probably won't enter in either - I think having either competition or both is a great idea so long as you can get enough numbers. I have some suggestions though.

Regarding judging - I think having everybody judge is the best way - otherwise it's not so much of a community event - I think the more people involved the better. I think it would be a great way to give people experience in judgine events. It would probably be necessary to get some guidlines for how events should be judged. It would also be good if everybody comments on why they came up with their results - and even argue with each other (in a civil manner) about why they have those results - I think this would really help people in judging further events.

Shred 30. I think x dex should definitly be counted - it's been counted at worlds for a few years now and it's accepted by over 50% of footbaggers as far as I know. I think it also undermines the purpose of the event if you don't count it - since it makes the add system less accurate - which makes you wonder what the point of using a point system is. I think the event should definitly be 30 seconds - regardless of how many tries you can have to hit your combo - I think we should go by the standard that happens in competition - thus giving the competitors some experience for when they do go to competitions.

Regarding what is unique in a shred 30 - these are the moves I think are not unique. Butterflies, osis, whirl, drifter, dlo, eggbeater, symp mirage, symp flail, symp whirl. (ie toe whirl and clip whirl are the same move) - basically if I missed any moves - I'm sure you can see where they're going. I think paradon, barfly, double over down and down double down are all definitly unique - Perhaps it would be ok to cut 2 out and say that paradon and barfly are the same move and double over down and down double down are the same move - but anything past that is not accurate. With whirls you can hit whirl and pdx whirl on both sides - and I think those two moves are unique (and the only uniques you can hit with whirls) - double downs should be similar.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 15 May 2005 21:11

Thank you Jeremy for providing the first real contribution to this discussion! You make some valid points, especially about x-dex and double downs.
If this goes ahead your opinion will definatly be considered

DoctorJay · Post by **DoctorJay** » 28 May 2005 10:15

hm
first of all nice idea.

in my opinion it is worth to do such an online comp.
for shred I guess I will definitely compete sometime.
In routines I guess it is too hard to compete without a digicam ( my girlfriend has this digital photo cam where you can save 30 sec vids).

I guess that you should do the routine comp a maximum of 2 times per year ( maybe with some prices)

the shred should be 30 secs because that is the official rule of this discipline.

would be cool if we have a combination discipline like in skiing one time a year, so maybe people get motivated to take part in all comps.

Your ideas really make me wondering if I should save for a digicam.

Now I have to call around if I can find somebody who will film me tomorrow to enter the sick1/3 comp this month.

great work tom and nic!
rock on

Asmus · Post by **Asmus** » 28 May 2005 11:56

I think there should be a one minute routine competition..
And creativity, originality and style should be more important than tenichal abillitys.. Cause that would make the competiteon more fun and more people could actually win!

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 28 May 2005 23:24

actually its really not the same as doing a routine at a tournament. You can't just get up there infront of the judges and try your routine for hours until you get it perfect and be like "oh thats the one I want you to judge"

If somehow you could get a mass online meeting where everyone could watch a *live routine to keep the you have to have hit it when the pressures on type feeling. Of course this would be impossible for myself and the rest of the diapists (mad coinage) Yet it would be soooo cool, any ideas for that anyone? Maybe elect a panel of judges capable of judging accurately (plus a broadband connection

) to do it.

Sorry for throwing ridiculous ideas out there, but this is pretty much the only way I would compete myself. I think routines done like this would be lame.

Wait, unless you were purely judged on difficulty and creativity of your routine and dropless was required. This way it doesn't matter how long you practice on cam because you have to do it perfectly how you want it anyways.

again, ridiculous

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 29 May 2005 02:13

BalinorNZ wrote:Think of it this way joe. When we go to a tornement, we dont get handed a bag and with no previous practice allowed be told to do a routine. We all practice long and hard at footbag, that is the secret to being good. Players practice their routines hundreds of times before an event so they can do it perfect when the event comes, doing a routine for camera is just like practicing your routine alot of times to get it perfect. Besides, can you give me one good reason not to encourage players (especially ones that cant attend tournements) to create and perfect routines, an integral part of footbag? I cant.

Did u read this post James? I think it applies to your arguments.

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 29 May 2005 09:44

habitat wrote:actually its really not the same as doing a routine at a tournament. You can't just get up there infront of the judges and try your routine for hours until you get it perfect and be like "oh thats the one I want you to judge"

did you read that post Nic? I'm sorry but to say that practicing a routine tons then doing it infront of judges 1 time is the same as trying a routine millions of times infront of a camera (judge) your pretty much 98.9% wrong

real routine = 1 time to do it right (no practicing infront of judges)
proposed camera routine = infinite times to get right (practicing infront of judges)

and if you don't get that, then seek help

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 29 May 2005 14:32

"Players practice their routines hundreds of times before an event so they can do it perfect when the event comes, doing a routine for camera is just like practicing your routine alot of times to get it perfect. Besides, can you give me one good reason not to encourage players (especially ones that cant attend tournements) to create and perfect routines, an integral part of footbag?"

Sorry this was the bit I was refering to. I am not saying that competitoin and camera routines are the same, I am saying that you practice for them the same way. People do their routines loads of times at home before an event, and they would need to do their routines loads at home infront of the camera. Camera events would be like real routines exept without be pressure of being judged and public performance (not saying that is a good though mind you).

The main point I want to emphisize is why should'nt we encourage players to create and perfect routines - an integral part of footbag?

Btw, props on sidewalk>ripwalk>repeat

that is hard.

FootbagginBum · Post by **FootbagginBum** » 06 Jun 2005 20:22

Ok first I'd like to say I'd compete in both of these.

Now, I have the same problem with the infinite try's, so I have a better solution.

3 comps added:

shred 30
1 minute routines (with rules similar to flow, giving lots of credit for style)

And this is the important one: I'd like to introduce the concept of a 3 minute routine. Lets push the envelope here on length, stamina, and creativity, and make it so its incredibly hard no matter how many trys you take. I think the reward for droplessness should be huge on this if we do it. I think that adds extra pizzaz to the online comps too if they house the hardest comp of all.

What do ya think?
Peace,
Bum

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 07 Jun 2005 02:14

That is a great idea Loren! I know I would take a crack at participating.
The trouble is any competition needs participants, and its hard enough to get people to participate in sick1 and sick3, and so far signups for sick15 are slim! Alot of players are not very enthusiastic

Competitoins I think should be aimed at being healthy for a players game, like sick15 will make people dial their runs and links a bit!
A petrol drinking contest would be an example of a comp that would not be good for a players game.

However, if the competition is too healthy then players will be scared to enter, alot of people have told me sick15 is too hard and they cant hit strings that long that are any good anymore, and dont want to participate because of this.

Personally I am all for new online comps! (thats why I am organising some lol), but the question is, who else is?

modified

Online Shred30 and Routines on modifed.

Should we have online Shred30 and Routines?

Online Shred30 and Routines on modifed.