I see this discussion is actually about the unfair sentence given to the guy, while the 'mother' gets off light. I don't see this as a debate about abortion. I believe there's already a thread started about that.Badnfluenc wrote:I think its ridiculous he is getting life when the mother of the 'twins' is protected under abortion rights. She should get prosecuted too imo. Its ridiculous that she just didnt have the babies and put them up for adoption to the millions who wish they could conceive a child. It makes me sick!
http://www.channel3000.com/news/4577721/detail.html
Teen gets Life for helping teenage g/f end pregnancy
-
NotHisRealName
- Post Master General
- Posts: 2527
- Joined: 26 Oct 2002 03:43
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Teen gets Life for helping teenage g/f end pregnancy
scary, a girlfriend of mine induced her self to have a miscarage at 3 months of pregnancey. i felt really strange about it but in all onestly i didnt want a child. she did it by punching her self she said she wouldnt take it back if she could an is glad she did it. so down the toliet it went. my life could have been turned up side down had that child been born. but i feel its very wrong in some ways too. this story really is sad. poor guy.
All I have to say is the whole thing is bunko. A lot of things in the system are wrong to me and I don't like it, but I guess until something new happens I'm just going to have to go with it.
Sam Mayer
"Son, a woman is like a beer. They smell good, they look good, you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" - Homer Simpson
"Son, a woman is like a beer. They smell good, they look good, you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" - Homer Simpson
I don't think he should have received life. If anything he should be charged with domestic abuse with intent to do harm. In many states nowadays the state takes over prosecuting even when the spouse or domestic partner doesn't seek to press charges. Most of those cases get thrown out or are pleaded way down. The reality is that he did attack his girlfriend with the intent to give her an abortion which is a physically dibilitating act.
If he appeals on up to the Supreme Court it is likely to be overturned.
I find it funny (not haha) that people always argue about "When life begins". I just don't see it that way and here's why. Since so many people are fond of dictionary definitions here's one from dictionary.com that encompasses all or most of the definitions from several dictionaries:
By this and several other definitions it would be just as arguable to say that life exists in almost all things and therefore we shouldn't kill anything. Essentially, Rocks are except and we can destroy as many of them as we see fit.
Seriously though, plants are living things. Dogs, horses, cats, mice, kangaroos etc.... So what is it that actually sets them apart from us. Why do we find it acceptable as civilized nations to support the mass killing and often hunting of these living beings.
Consciousness! Not just consicousness, but higher consciousness with the ability of higher reason. Not just higher consciousness and higher reason, but GOOD higher consciousness and higher reason. Who decides what is Higher and Consciousness and Reason and Good? Why, we do of course.
So what about fetii and babies? It's pretty obvious that they have no higher consciousness that we can discern by any method. Nor do they have the ability to "reason" before or even immediately after birth. They do however have two things going for them. 1) They have the potential for all of those things. 2) They look just like us.
1) Reason is something that is learned. Dogs are capable of reason, but only up to a point. You can only teach them so much and then they reach their limit. Babies are the same way only they have the latent ability to transcend the reasoning power of dogs. However, if left unattended and uneducated they will not achieve those higher levels. They will remain at the level of whatever animal or social group they exist in. There are rare cases when a very gifted individual rises above the level they grow up in and go beyond anything that could possibly be expected given their situation. Even so, this is most often do to some outside influence differentiated from the natural surroundings the person grew up in.
2) We have a biblical nature not to kill our own. When the commandment said "Though Shalt Not Kill" it obviously wasn't talking about all of those Canaanites the Hebrews ran down and killed shortly thereafter. It really meant not to kill our own.
What about the question of "Goodness" or should I really say "Innocence"? I find it interesting that this article took place in Texas, as did the impetus for Roe v. Wade. Texas has the highest Death Penalty rate in the US. So what's the story with that? They don't want people to abort a fetus because it has the potential for goodness and is thus presumed innocent. On the other hand if that little sucker grows up to rape and murder someone then we can fry the bastard and it's okay. So it's really a matter of faith, and not even faith in God. It's faith that we can raise people to become good little civilians and not murderers. I have to say that per capita we have a fairly decent record, but the reasoning still isn't there to support the death penalty and not abortion. "Innocent until proven guilty" ummm... not usually. Media had taken care of that little myth for us.
If he appeals on up to the Supreme Court it is likely to be overturned.
I find it funny (not haha) that people always argue about "When life begins". I just don't see it that way and here's why. Since so many people are fond of dictionary definitions here's one from dictionary.com that encompasses all or most of the definitions from several dictionaries:
Dictionary.com wrote:life ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lf)
n. pl. lives (lvz)
The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
The characteristic state or condition of a living organism.
Living organisms considered as a group: plant life; marine life.
A living being, especially a person: an earthquake that claimed hundreds of lives.
The physical, mental, and spiritual experiences that constitute existence: the artistic life of a writer.
The interval of time between birth and death: She led a good, long life.
The interval of time between one's birth and the present: has had hay fever all his life.
A particular segment of one's life: my adolescent life.
The period from an occurrence until death: elected for life; paralyzed for life.
Slang. A sentence of imprisonment lasting till death.
The time for which something exists or functions: the useful life of a car.
A spiritual state regarded as a transcending of corporeal death.
An account of a person's life; a biography.
Human existence, relationships, or activity in general: real life; everyday life.
A manner of living: led a hard life.
A specific, characteristic manner of existence. Used of inanimate objects: “Great institutions seem to have a life of their own, independent of those who run them” (New Republic).
The activities and interests of a particular area or realm: musical life in New York.
A source of vitality; an animating force: She's the life of the show.
Liveliness or vitality; animation: a face that is full of life.
Something that actually exists regarded as a subject for an artist: painted from life.
Actual environment or reality; nature.
By this and several other definitions it would be just as arguable to say that life exists in almost all things and therefore we shouldn't kill anything. Essentially, Rocks are except and we can destroy as many of them as we see fit.
Seriously though, plants are living things. Dogs, horses, cats, mice, kangaroos etc.... So what is it that actually sets them apart from us. Why do we find it acceptable as civilized nations to support the mass killing and often hunting of these living beings.
Consciousness! Not just consicousness, but higher consciousness with the ability of higher reason. Not just higher consciousness and higher reason, but GOOD higher consciousness and higher reason. Who decides what is Higher and Consciousness and Reason and Good? Why, we do of course.
So what about fetii and babies? It's pretty obvious that they have no higher consciousness that we can discern by any method. Nor do they have the ability to "reason" before or even immediately after birth. They do however have two things going for them. 1) They have the potential for all of those things. 2) They look just like us.
1) Reason is something that is learned. Dogs are capable of reason, but only up to a point. You can only teach them so much and then they reach their limit. Babies are the same way only they have the latent ability to transcend the reasoning power of dogs. However, if left unattended and uneducated they will not achieve those higher levels. They will remain at the level of whatever animal or social group they exist in. There are rare cases when a very gifted individual rises above the level they grow up in and go beyond anything that could possibly be expected given their situation. Even so, this is most often do to some outside influence differentiated from the natural surroundings the person grew up in.
2) We have a biblical nature not to kill our own. When the commandment said "Though Shalt Not Kill" it obviously wasn't talking about all of those Canaanites the Hebrews ran down and killed shortly thereafter. It really meant not to kill our own.
What about the question of "Goodness" or should I really say "Innocence"? I find it interesting that this article took place in Texas, as did the impetus for Roe v. Wade. Texas has the highest Death Penalty rate in the US. So what's the story with that? They don't want people to abort a fetus because it has the potential for goodness and is thus presumed innocent. On the other hand if that little sucker grows up to rape and murder someone then we can fry the bastard and it's okay. So it's really a matter of faith, and not even faith in God. It's faith that we can raise people to become good little civilians and not murderers. I have to say that per capita we have a fairly decent record, but the reasoning still isn't there to support the death penalty and not abortion. "Innocent until proven guilty" ummm... not usually. Media had taken care of that little myth for us.
Old Skool
Aw man, this is a hard debate to enter into. Check it out. Okay, if iI'm remembering straight, the girl got the "other haff of the DNA" (since father COULD NOT AND SHOULD NOT be used in this situation) to jump on her stomach to kill the (don't know what to say to keep my side p/c) sperm and egg mixture, right? If anything the state should not have the right to punish.
This basically comes down to "right of State" and "right of Citizen" kinda matter. Abortion is not illegal in the US. Why the fuck does it matter if it's preformed by a license doctor? If oyu're trying to mak sure that something doesn't suffer.....no worries, a "sperm/egg coupling) meen nothing. OKay, I'm a little tipsy and want to start a new, oh so contriversial (sp?) topic.
ABOUT THIS TOPIC
Basically , dude budy shouldn't have been charged with anything. His girl wanted him to kill "the baby". She gets charged with murder and she get off like she had nothing to do with it? Fuck that!
This basically comes down to "right of State" and "right of Citizen" kinda matter. Abortion is not illegal in the US. Why the fuck does it matter if it's preformed by a license doctor? If oyu're trying to mak sure that something doesn't suffer.....no worries, a "sperm/egg coupling) meen nothing. OKay, I'm a little tipsy and want to start a new, oh so contriversial (sp?) topic.
ABOUT THIS TOPIC
Basically , dude budy shouldn't have been charged with anything. His girl wanted him to kill "the baby". She gets charged with murder and she get off like she had nothing to do with it? Fuck that!
Joshua Annis
"Don't Panic..."
"I woke wanting nothing more than a box of Gushers....
DENIED
I shake my first at the sky."-Matt Cross
"Yeah, seriously! When I got back into my cubicle Jazz started throwing dimes at me. What an asshole."-David Wilder
"Don't Panic..."
"I woke wanting nothing more than a box of Gushers....
DENIED
I shake my first at the sky."-Matt Cross
"Yeah, seriously! When I got back into my cubicle Jazz started throwing dimes at me. What an asshole."-David Wilder
