THE tricks

Shredster · Post by **Shredster** » 06 Jul 2005 20:16

Heres something interesting. Suppose a trick is THE, either by dexing, ducking, etc.

Montage = Spinning DUCKING Paradox Symposium Whirl
If the duck is THE, is the trick a Whirlwind? Or is the trick totally missed?

Paradox Barrage
If the first or second dex is THE, is the trick a Paradox Mirage? Or total miss?

Paradon
First or second dex THE, is it a butterfly? What about when paradon is thought of as a "double butterfly?

professor · Post by **professor** » 06 Jul 2005 20:34

I think it is the lesser trick.

You totally missed the trick you wanted to hit, but you still dexed the bag so you should get some credit.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 06 Jul 2005 20:40

i feel that if you were aiming for say a paradon and miss the second dex, it's not a butterfly, you just missed the paradon. i'm going to say it's a complete miss, not a lesser variant of a more difficult trick.

professor · Post by **professor** » 06 Jul 2005 20:44

If you don't want to call it a butterfly you could call it an illusioning clipper.

You did the illusion dex and then clipper, whether you did an extra movement or not you still did both those components.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 06 Jul 2005 21:07

It`s definitely a missed trick.

On a slightly related note though, if I `the` a trick but the resulting move is 3 adds or higher, I will continue my string. If I miss the duck on ducking clipper, I will pass the bag. But yeah, if I missed the duck on montage, I wouldn`t feel comfortable saying I hit whirlwind.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 06 Jul 2005 21:21

Excelent topic!

You all need to watch the end of THE SICKENING!

hahahaha

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 06 Jul 2005 21:57

Option 3: It's garbage ;-]

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 07 Jul 2005 01:52

Look at Pdx Flail ;] You hit 4 add, or when you missed the dex you hit just a toe stall

I would just consider thed trick as thed trick. If you thed Montage, you hadn't hit Montage, or Whirlwind, or Spinning Ducking Clipper, or whatever... You just missed Montage, and you thed it. You haven't hit anything. You've hit THE trick...

Cod · Post by **Cod** » 07 Jul 2005 03:20

In my opinion, if you thed a move you simply hit a trick without thed element. If you hit in shred30: Butterfly > Spinning The Ducking Clipper > Butterfly > The Paradox Flail I'll count it as a: Butterfly > Spinning Clipper > Butterfly > ss Toe.

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 07 Jul 2005 04:52

shreddaily wrote:Excelent topic!

You all need to watch the end of THE SICKENING!

hahahaha

Hahahahaha oh god. I've never seen it but I heard about it a few years back. BIG controversy, lol.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 07 Jul 2005 06:05

It's just a missed trick, a the paradon isn't a butterfly, because it isn't a butterfly, it's a the paradon.

To me a the trick is still the trick, though. I'm not picky. I will probably catch the bag and pass it on, but I still consider the trick hit (unless maybe it's SUPER the). Am I the only one who is more lenient about thes? I also find calling thes, just like, "THE!!!" really rude. I call thes, like, "I think that last dex was the" -- politely after the run has finished (SOMEtimes while the run is still going).

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 07 Jul 2005 06:08

yeah a 'the' trick is definitly a missed trick. I don't count it at all. If somebody did it in a shred 30 I think it should be counted as a drop but as yet there are no rules for that kind of thing (so the judges can do what they want).

I agree that it's not neccessary to call it midstring - I tend to point it out to people after the run but it depends how they react. If they're negative towards me for calling it I stop calling 'the' tricks - it's their problem more than mine. If they don't want to know about it that's fine.

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 07 Jul 2005 06:09

I am the same as Erik. I think "THE!!!" in the middle of a run is really distracting and a little rude. You don't hear (American) football players saying "SHAKY!!!" when the Qback throws a pass that has a shitty spiral. I also, if I call a the, will say it at the end of the run, and in a polite way like "I think that was the." Erik, I think that has to do with our type of personality though, actually.

ted · Post by **ted** » 07 Jul 2005 07:11

Garbage. It's worse than nothing, it's ugly.

On a side note, I don't think calling stuff is neccessary except among players you play with consistently. They know your game and what you are working on and if you have trouble cleaning a certain element. I know what parts of my game are thin and I'd rather hear "clean" than "the".

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 07 Jul 2005 09:57

word chan. I use to hate guilts but I'm perfectly cool with them now. I used to be strickt about calling thes but now I ussualy don't say anything. Unless its james e in witch case I get as close to him as possible ane yell THE!!! and sometimes I'll punch him in the kidneys.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 07 Jul 2005 12:17

Cod wrote:In my opinion, if you thed a move you simply hit a trick without thed element. If you hit in shred30: Butterfly > Spinning The Ducking Clipper > Butterfly > The Paradox Flail I'll count it as a: Butterfly > Spinning Clipper > Butterfly > ss Toe.

Yeah.. In comp I would count it the same way. But I don't think all of us are talking about situation like shred30... I'm talking just about some circle shred, training session.

Oh.. and in comps like sick3 or BigOne I would count it like a missed trick. In these events everything should be hit cleanly... no matter how hard it is...

CIC flurry · Post by **CIC flurry** » 07 Jul 2005 23:24

wolfpac444 wrote:Option 3: It's garbage ;-]

LOL. Never gets old.

Jdigges · Post by **Jdigges** » 08 Aug 2005 09:58

I voted lesser, but now that i think about it i can't really go either way. If you hit a pdx barrage, and both dexes were "THE" then how would it be a pdx mirage? but if the second dex is "THE" that would be a wack looking pdx mirage. I believe that trick would be missed. and just as Ken said, if i missed the duck on Montage, i wouldn't feel comfortable saying i hit whirlwind, because it wouldn't be very clean. The set would end up being way high, and it would probably look iffy.

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 14 Aug 2005 19:14

It obviously depends on the trick.
A THE pdx illusion is just a toe stall. In which case it is really no trick at all. But if i THE a pixie paradon, i still hit the dimwalk, even if it looked like crap.

Are we talking about scoring in competion? How is a THE scored in shred 30 if the shredder still hit multiple adds in their sloppy trick? eg spinning ducking butterfly with a THE duck. DO they still get the four adds for the spinning butter?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 14 Aug 2005 19:29

There are currently no rules regarding "the" or sloppy tricks in competitions so it's up to the judges.

I guess the important thing to remember is that a lot of the judging should happen in real time - rather than on a video review - at least if the judges are experienced enough to give a score immediatly rather than having to wait (which I believe should definitly be a goal from judges). In this situation I would think they should give the player the benifit of the doubt regarding moves that look "thin" If you can't call it definitly "the" let it go.

It's obviously very tricky though with no official guidelines. I mean where is the cut off with a "the" duck? There are so many variables. Same with double downs. Of course the IFPA is kind of trying to resolve this problem but is caught up with various problems that are very frustrating but it seems like there is little that can be done about those problems.

Basically my opinion is that you have to realise how recent freestyle footbag is - modern freestyle really only happened after BAP - so a little over 10 years ago. I think we should look at current tournaments as a chance to work on the current judging systems and hopefully improve them but the results themselves are fairly illegitimate. There's just currently no uniformity or transparency in the judging systems. As we saw at worlds - the top 2 players in the world (and maybe more) thought the shred 30 system used was "stupid". I think the most important thing for issues like this is patience for the time being - I suck at patience but it's unlikely for anything significant to happen anytime soon.

modified

THE tricks

THE tricks:Lesser Trick or Total Miss

THE tricks