Shoes
Shoes
I've been playing footbag for about a month now, and in about another month my birthday is coming up. I figured i would ask for some footbag shoes for my birthday. I was just curious however, which shoes are good? I've been reading the Bags and Equipment forum and i see all these pics of lavers and climacools and CT 700's or stuff like that. I was just wondering if someone could explain to me why these shoes are good. If one is better than the others which one. Thanks.
Who, in the rainbow, can draw the line where the purple hue ends and the orange hue begins? Same with sanity and insanity.
Resident Footbag Nub
Stephen Bishop
Resident Footbag Nub
Stephen Bishop
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shreddaily
- Flower Child
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- Joined: 03 Sep 2003 16:56
I'll make this as consise as possible
lavers; + classic tried and true. - Not much support
new balance; + lots of support. -bulky
g units/climacools +light and new - expensive
If you're a heavy set dude or just tall new balance is the way to go. If you've got some money or are good at finding deals g units and clima cools seem to be "in" right now. Lavers are a safe bet either way.
lavers; + classic tried and true. - Not much support
new balance; + lots of support. -bulky
g units/climacools +light and new - expensive
If you're a heavy set dude or just tall new balance is the way to go. If you've got some money or are good at finding deals g units and clima cools seem to be "in" right now. Lavers are a safe bet either way.
If your getting lavers make sure they're mesh ones, not leather.
Youll find with these trainers that the toe bit is mesh and has a big surface area. Plus a good flat inside surface. The shoes mentioned have all of these and like shreddaily said good support and balance. A shoe with all of those is considered a good kicking shoe.
Youll find with these trainers that the toe bit is mesh and has a big surface area. Plus a good flat inside surface. The shoes mentioned have all of these and like shreddaily said good support and balance. A shoe with all of those is considered a good kicking shoe.
Well my understanding of the whole thing is that Lavers are the overall favorite and climacools are the new trend. Im not planning on modding my shoes right at first, so going with the climacools is already out of the picture. So i gotta decide between the new balance CT whatevers and Lavers. Should i just go on looks and pick one? What are the pros and cons to the Lavers and New Balance ones?
Who, in the rainbow, can draw the line where the purple hue ends and the orange hue begins? Same with sanity and insanity.
Resident Footbag Nub
Stephen Bishop
Resident Footbag Nub
Stephen Bishop
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hacksterbator
- Washed-Up Child Star
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that's the common misconception. every one seems to think you need to modify climacools for them to be shreddable, but this is not the case. i use mine right out of the box and i seem to do okay in them. no mods what so ever.Bishop wrote: Im not planning on modding my shoes right at first, so going with the climacools is already out of the picture.
i would say in the non-mod area climacools take first with lavers second. newbalance i have never played in so i can't say, but at the very least i think they need a toe box mod. the new ct-600's i hear need a clipper rail, but i am sure you can get away with out one.
lavers you need to atleast do the toe box mod, or cut off your side walls, and puchase new insoles. then there is the issue of canvas, taking it out is a pain, but totally not need. so lavers need at least 2 mods where as climas don't need any, but there are some that can be done to help you out.
the only issue with climas is price, the 001's are rare and expensive. new balance are easily bought at your local running store. in winnipeg, where i know you live, lavers can't be found except on the internet.
either way i suggest you start with lavers. if you find you get knee, joint, back pain, maybe try something else next time you buy footbag shoes.
A.G.
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freestyler4life
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Outsider
- Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah
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- Location: Bridgewater, New Jersey
I think that the question being asked really is "what kinds of qualities of a shoe make it good for freestyle?"
I play in Rod Lavers. I have never used Climacools or CTs. I am not going to try to compare these shoes to one-another here, just to describe the qualities that I think generally make a shoe good for freestyle, so you know what NOT to get to play in.
One things you want in a good freestyle shoe are relatively flat surfaces, especially on the toe and instep (though I also insist on nice flat outsides too
). Some more modern athletic shoes have very rounded surfaces. That just makes it much harder to catch stuff on your feet. A special little feature of some shoes, like the Lavers, is what we call a "Toe-box"; the re-enforced part of the top of the shoe which contains the eyelets (the holes that your laces are threaded through) extend down towards the toe on either side of the flat toe area. These strips of material are sewn down to the material, but we cut these threads and laces the shoes in such a way that these strips are pulled upwards, making little walls on either side of the toe. These walls make toe-stalls (and any moves that end with a toe stall) much easier early on when you haven't yet been doing them for years. Lots of early basic moves to learn involve a toe stall, and those little walls make learning these tricks much easier. Many shredders cut these walls off now, since they feel that they get in the way of some more advanced tricks, like pixie sets, where you must flick the footbag off your toe quickly while your foot starts to move sideways to circle bag. The walls can make the bag stick to your toe when you don't want it to.
Many shoes have an instep that sort of cuts away under the arch of your foot. This is generally very undesireable in a freestyle shoe. You want a nice even surface to catch the bag with on that instep, since so many moves start or finish (or both) there. For sports like running or basketball, you don't really need alot of sole underneath the arch of your foot, and it makes sense that they don't bother putting alot of unnecessary extra rubber there. Footbag is different.
A lightweight shoe is pretty essential. We have to move our feet quickly in many directions to circle around a little bag while it travels through the air. Extra weight is bad. Also, we have to be able to feel the bag on our foot with a high degree of sensitivity, so extra padding of the shoe's upper (upper = basically, all the material of the shoe other than the sole) is counter-productive. Take a skateboarding shoe, for example: they often have a very good shape for freestyle footbag (nice flat sides), but they have alot of extra padding to protect the feet, and simply because manipulating a skateboard with your feet tends to tear up the shoes. Thus, you'd have decreased sensitivity to feeling the bag on your foot, and all that extra padding makes those kinds of shoes pretty heavy too.
One other quality that I can think of right now is support. When people say support, I generally just think of this as cushioning between your feet and the ground. Sometimes when people talk about "support" they mean a shoe that would keep your ankle from twisting too much, protecting your from spraining it (like a hiking boot). But we need to be able to flex our ankles around alot for footbag, so thats not the kind of support we mean. We stomp around on our feet alot, jumping up and down and such. Thin, non-squishy soles can leave your feet hurting very badly. Lavers have plenty of cushioning for me, being a bit below average height and weight for American men. Some bigger guys complain that Lavers don't have enough support. I think they mean that they don't have enough cushioning in the soles. I'm not certain. Anyway, when the soles of my shoes start to get worn down, I replace them because otherwise I suffer extra irritation to my feet that I just don't need. I go through about two pairs of Lavers a year. Some go through shoes much faster, some players don't seem to wear down the soles of their Lavers at all. It depends on how they play, and I can't really tell you exactly what people do that makes shoes wear down or not.
Converse All-Stars (Chuck Taylors?) seem to have some good qualities for freestyle, but like the skateboarding shoes they have some fatal flaws. They have pretty flat surfaces, they aren't too heavy, and they have relatively thin material for sensitivity. They even have a potential toe-box. But they have VERY poor cushioning. This is a problem in another way too. The soles of those shoes are so thin that they greatly reduce the amount of usable footbag-catching surface on the instep. Lavers have a more substantial sole, and that sole provides just about the right amount of flattened area on the instep to do alot of the work of catching or kicking the bag (though I don't really catch the bag entirely on the sole, without it that bag would roll off my foot ALOT).
One last thing, related to the padded uppers, is that a non-bulky shoe is very desireable. Alot of freestyle involves circling your legs and feet around the bag while its in the air. Shoes that are wider than necessary could simply give you less available space to do all those bag-circling manuevers. You can just think of this as being related to pants. You don't see many good footbag players playing in long baggy pants, because those things would simply get in the way of circling your legs around the bag. They would cut down on the available space between your legs for the bag to move through. Same thing with bulky shoes. A sleeker profile means that you're less likely to hit the bag with your shoe when you don't want to.
I'd say that covers most of the qualities that make a shoe good or bad for freestyle. If anybody wants to add anything or correct me, please go right ahead.
I play in Rod Lavers. I have never used Climacools or CTs. I am not going to try to compare these shoes to one-another here, just to describe the qualities that I think generally make a shoe good for freestyle, so you know what NOT to get to play in.
One things you want in a good freestyle shoe are relatively flat surfaces, especially on the toe and instep (though I also insist on nice flat outsides too
). Some more modern athletic shoes have very rounded surfaces. That just makes it much harder to catch stuff on your feet. A special little feature of some shoes, like the Lavers, is what we call a "Toe-box"; the re-enforced part of the top of the shoe which contains the eyelets (the holes that your laces are threaded through) extend down towards the toe on either side of the flat toe area. These strips of material are sewn down to the material, but we cut these threads and laces the shoes in such a way that these strips are pulled upwards, making little walls on either side of the toe. These walls make toe-stalls (and any moves that end with a toe stall) much easier early on when you haven't yet been doing them for years. Lots of early basic moves to learn involve a toe stall, and those little walls make learning these tricks much easier. Many shredders cut these walls off now, since they feel that they get in the way of some more advanced tricks, like pixie sets, where you must flick the footbag off your toe quickly while your foot starts to move sideways to circle bag. The walls can make the bag stick to your toe when you don't want it to. Many shoes have an instep that sort of cuts away under the arch of your foot. This is generally very undesireable in a freestyle shoe. You want a nice even surface to catch the bag with on that instep, since so many moves start or finish (or both) there. For sports like running or basketball, you don't really need alot of sole underneath the arch of your foot, and it makes sense that they don't bother putting alot of unnecessary extra rubber there. Footbag is different.
A lightweight shoe is pretty essential. We have to move our feet quickly in many directions to circle around a little bag while it travels through the air. Extra weight is bad. Also, we have to be able to feel the bag on our foot with a high degree of sensitivity, so extra padding of the shoe's upper (upper = basically, all the material of the shoe other than the sole) is counter-productive. Take a skateboarding shoe, for example: they often have a very good shape for freestyle footbag (nice flat sides), but they have alot of extra padding to protect the feet, and simply because manipulating a skateboard with your feet tends to tear up the shoes. Thus, you'd have decreased sensitivity to feeling the bag on your foot, and all that extra padding makes those kinds of shoes pretty heavy too.
One other quality that I can think of right now is support. When people say support, I generally just think of this as cushioning between your feet and the ground. Sometimes when people talk about "support" they mean a shoe that would keep your ankle from twisting too much, protecting your from spraining it (like a hiking boot). But we need to be able to flex our ankles around alot for footbag, so thats not the kind of support we mean. We stomp around on our feet alot, jumping up and down and such. Thin, non-squishy soles can leave your feet hurting very badly. Lavers have plenty of cushioning for me, being a bit below average height and weight for American men. Some bigger guys complain that Lavers don't have enough support. I think they mean that they don't have enough cushioning in the soles. I'm not certain. Anyway, when the soles of my shoes start to get worn down, I replace them because otherwise I suffer extra irritation to my feet that I just don't need. I go through about two pairs of Lavers a year. Some go through shoes much faster, some players don't seem to wear down the soles of their Lavers at all. It depends on how they play, and I can't really tell you exactly what people do that makes shoes wear down or not.
Converse All-Stars (Chuck Taylors?) seem to have some good qualities for freestyle, but like the skateboarding shoes they have some fatal flaws. They have pretty flat surfaces, they aren't too heavy, and they have relatively thin material for sensitivity. They even have a potential toe-box. But they have VERY poor cushioning. This is a problem in another way too. The soles of those shoes are so thin that they greatly reduce the amount of usable footbag-catching surface on the instep. Lavers have a more substantial sole, and that sole provides just about the right amount of flattened area on the instep to do alot of the work of catching or kicking the bag (though I don't really catch the bag entirely on the sole, without it that bag would roll off my foot ALOT).
One last thing, related to the padded uppers, is that a non-bulky shoe is very desireable. Alot of freestyle involves circling your legs and feet around the bag while its in the air. Shoes that are wider than necessary could simply give you less available space to do all those bag-circling manuevers. You can just think of this as being related to pants. You don't see many good footbag players playing in long baggy pants, because those things would simply get in the way of circling your legs around the bag. They would cut down on the available space between your legs for the bag to move through. Same thing with bulky shoes. A sleeker profile means that you're less likely to hit the bag with your shoe when you don't want to.
I'd say that covers most of the qualities that make a shoe good or bad for freestyle. If anybody wants to add anything or correct me, please go right ahead.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
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freestyler4life
- BSOS Beast
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- Joined: 15 Jun 2005 10:16
- Location: Land of Rednecks
Sort of off topic, but I motion that we need to have a sticky on this thread that basically says what Jonathan said above. So that all the shoe questions can be answered in one thread once and for all.
Ben Skaggs
Amateurs practice until they can get it right.
Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
No, I don't play soccer. Yes, there are competitions. 4 years. Lots of practice.
Amateurs practice until they can get it right.
Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
No, I don't play soccer. Yes, there are competitions. 4 years. Lots of practice.
Hey people 
Im new to those forums too, and pretty much new to footbag!
I need shoes badly too, im playing with skate shoes and they are way too heavy. I want shoes that i dont have to modify, just like the mesh lavers. Unfortunately tough, as you guys may be aware of, they are unavailable to canada unless bought from the internet. a good model i found on the net is this one, and id like to know if any of you as them, and if they require mods :
Tyvm 4 your great help
Im new to those forums too, and pretty much new to footbag!
I need shoes badly too, im playing with skate shoes and they are way too heavy. I want shoes that i dont have to modify, just like the mesh lavers. Unfortunately tough, as you guys may be aware of, they are unavailable to canada unless bought from the internet. a good model i found on the net is this one, and id like to know if any of you as them, and if they require mods :
Tyvm 4 your great help
-
travismontoya
- BSOS Beast
- Posts: 356
- Joined: 28 May 2005 21:00
Heh, Those are teh twill lavers, and you can still cut out the insides to mod them if you like... Dont have to be done now, and considering your new to footbag I doubt you need to do it quiet yet... But they are good I have a pair of green ones and my friend loren (Footbagginbum) has a pair and he loves them to! So IMHO they are good Cant go wrong with lavers!
Cant go wrong with lavers!So if i've decided to get Lavers, where on the net would i find them? Also, my understanding of Lavers is that there are many different kinds of them but only like one style is good for shredding. Which one?
Also thanks for everyone for answering my questions.
Also thanks for everyone for answering my questions.
Who, in the rainbow, can draw the line where the purple hue ends and the orange hue begins? Same with sanity and insanity.
Resident Footbag Nub
Stephen Bishop
Resident Footbag Nub
Stephen Bishop
-
travismontoya
- BSOS Beast
- Posts: 356
- Joined: 28 May 2005 21:00
Eh... I personally wouldnt get the "leather" ones I think they look retarded and suck.... But the twill and the regular ones are great... You can get them at worldfootbag.com or search google or ebay for them... I wouldnt pay more then however much they are at footbag.org... Or maybe someone on modified is selling them?
peaz man
peaz man
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travismontoya
- BSOS Beast
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Um, judging from the context, i think your getting the instep and inside of the foot mixed up.Many shoes have an instep that sort of cuts away under the arch of your foot. This is generally very undesireable in a freestyle shoe. You want a nice even surface to catch the bag with on that instep, since so many moves start or finish (or both) there. For sports like running or basketball, you don't really need alot of sole underneath the arch of your foot, and it makes sense that they don't bother putting alot of unnecessary extra rubber there. Footbag is different.
The instep is the area of the foot above your toes, Where your laces are.
Just thought id let you know. It confused me to say the least.
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Outsider
- Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah
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- Joined: 21 May 2003 21:30
- Location: Bridgewater, New Jersey
Webster's Dictionary says:
Instep: 1. the arched upper surface of the foot between the toes and the ankle. 2. the part of the shoe covering the instep.
Hmm, I guess you're right, Jamo. Who would have thought... I just call that part of the shoe "the laces", or that part of my foot "the top". Well, you learn something new every day. Sorry for the confusion. I'll edit my previous entry later.
But now I'm confused: why on earth would the top of your foot between your ankle and toes be called the "instep" ? Who came up with that? What were they thinking? Damn it, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?!?
Instep: 1. the arched upper surface of the foot between the toes and the ankle. 2. the part of the shoe covering the instep.
Hmm, I guess you're right, Jamo. Who would have thought... I just call that part of the shoe "the laces", or that part of my foot "the top". Well, you learn something new every day. Sorry for the confusion. I'll edit my previous entry later.
But now I'm confused: why on earth would the top of your foot between your ankle and toes be called the "instep" ? Who came up with that? What were they thinking? Damn it, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?!?
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP