Locked out

General footbag-related topics that don't fit elsewhere go in here.
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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

I have to say that personally when I send out private messages or emails I expect them to stay that way. I can see that the person in general has no obligation to do that - except maybe an obligation to me because I've shown I trust them. If a private message I sent to somebody was posted on the forum that I didn't want anybody to see I think I would lose a lot of respect and trust for that person and probably not communicate much with them again.

Of course there is nothing to stop people posting pms or emails on the forum and I don't know of any policy about it - so if you want to do it that's fine - just think about how the other person would feel about it because presumably there is a reason why they sent it to you in private and didn't publically post it on the forum.

Regarding the topics that have been locked. There may have been some miscommunication but it's all in hand :P Obviously locking a topic didn't stop discussion from continuing anyway as people just started new topics. Your persistence is an inspiration to us all.
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QuantumBalance
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Post by QuantumBalance »

Jeremy wrote:
I have to say that personally when I send out private messages or emails I expect them to stay that way.
But, Jeremy... didn't you threaten to post PMs that I wrote to you when we were arguing?
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shreddaily
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Post by shreddaily »

Jeremy wrote: If a private message I sent to somebody was posted on the forum that I didn't want anybody to see I think I would lose a lot of respect and trust for that person and probably not communicate much with them again.
hahahaha
Somehow I think this doesn't exactly apply in this situation.

so close to 666 posts!!! Hopefuly they all come in here.
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shreddaily
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Post by shreddaily »

One time I was locked out of my car, and a guy named tito bubu came and broke in for me. The ironic thing was he didn't evan use his hands 8O !
quadgun
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Post by quadgun »

WHOA! Does he play footbag?
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Allan
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Post by Allan »

It's generally bad etiquette to quote private words in public in most situations.

If I have a private, face-to-face meeting with my boss and tell him that I think my manager is incompetent, I wouldn't expect him to turn around to my manager and say "Allan says you're a horrible manager ...". That would be very poor etiquette on behalf of my boss and I'd be thinking about quitting since I obviously can't trust him to keep a confidence.

When we correspond with people and address that solely to them, there is an expectation of privacy that should be honored in that correspondance. Whether the technical aspects of Internet communications allow for questionable levels of said privacy this not a valid excuse to ignore etiquette. This is the one of the reasons we have encryption for many forms of communication - it's not just for the "bad guys" who have something to hide. Lonn, in most cases, I would enthusiastically disagree with the sentiment of self-censorship. People should be encouraged to speak their minds and I'd argue that suppression is not a valid "cure" for any issue.

However, as with anything, there are exceptions to the generalities. Let's say we're all at a party and some of us get into an argument in the backyard with some jerk who keeps hogging the doobie (analagous to self-serving). This person (let's call him Bogart) flies off the handle about me saying to him "hey, it's not a microphone, bro, pass it on ..." - and goes into a crazed rant about how he's free to do whatever he wants; "there's no doobie smokin' rules, dude, lighten up you fuckin' nazi!". So, a trivial argument ensues and Bogart storms off in a huff when a few people back me up.

Later on, Bogart corners one of those people (let's call him Pete ;) ), say, in the bathroom, and starts going off about what horrible people we all are and generally saying nasty, uncalled-for things about mutual friends (those in the doobie argument and out of it). Now, personally, I'd expect and even praise Pete for coming out and telling everyone what Bogart said. I'd call that social responsibility - talking shit about people behind their backs just ain't cool - especially when it's malicious and hateful for virtually no reason.

In that case, I think Bogart deserves no respect for puking his shit all over Pete in a private setting and for him to expect any level of privacy in doing so is absurd. This is absolutely one of the exceptions to what I was saying above.

I've written all of this having gotten to the post in question after it had been censored. So, I don't even know what Damon wrote. I don't want to know. However, I won't say that Nic was necessarily wrong to censor you, Pete. It's a tough job to moderate and Nic made a judgement call on what he thought (generally correctly) was bad behavior for a public forum. But, it's all about context. As I said above, I think you were perfectly justified in doing what you did, but let's not all get down on Nic for doing what he saw as being his job in helping to cultivate a less aggressive community atmosphere. Censorship sucks, but moderation is necessary.

Nic, for future reference, you could take a slightly less aggressive stance on such issues (at least publicly) and seek out the advice of your peers as you are not the only moderator and should be willing to accept (and acquiesce to) a different opinion. It's your call at the time, certainly, but your responses to why you did it were sort of heavy-handed. Don't feel bad about it though (assuming you might) - it's a learning process (for all of us) and you're doing a great job :D

In closing, I'm really sorry for my role in fanning the flames in that thread and it does sadden me to see such aggression exhibited. That being said, flame wars are waaaay more entertaining than tiresome technical conversations or braggadocio. I just wish it was abstracted a little more so that real people's feelings wouldn't get hurt in the process.

Anyhow, that's my take :D

Peace, Love and Footbag.
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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

QuantumBalance wrote:Jeremy wrote:
I have to say that personally when I send out private messages or emails I expect them to stay that way.
But, Jeremy... didn't you threaten to post PMs that I wrote to you when we were arguing?
Hmm. to be honest I really can't remember. I have some vague recollections but I'm not sure. I think it's possible that I said something along the lines of "if you keep sending me messages like that one I'll start posting them in public" - which was because I was pissed off at receiving a number of abusive and unconstructive messages. I think that's different to just posting the messages in public because I was really telling you not to keep sending you messages and I don't think there would have been any breach of confidence if you did send another message and I posted it on the forum since I'd told you in advance that that's what would have happened.

Anyway enough on that topic - I'm glad it's over with :P

I think Allan made a very good post and I agree. I especially agree with his last statement and I always hope that people don't take things as seriously as they sound. I mean in all honesty nothing is ever achieved with topics like this one except for a change in peoples relationships with other people invovled. Maybe some borderline opinions are swayed - maybe not. Anyway I hope things are under control now and maybe some topics that were locked can be unlocked 8O

Peace!
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shreddaily
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Post by shreddaily »

Jeremy wrote: I mean in all honesty nothing is ever achieved with topics like this one except for a change in peoples relationships with other people invovled.
I think FLIP brought up a great thread to begin with. The first time I had a one on one session with Mr. Irish I would catch the bag, give him props and procede to serve myself the bag. After doing this about a half dozen times, as I drop the bag to myself he jumps over and kicks the bag away and passes it to me. "Thats self serving" he said or something along those lines. I had no idea and was very embarassed.... I think EP was saving people like me, people who respect the founders of the game, the traditionalists as Damon so hatefuly calls them, from such embarasment.
I hope Pete doesn't mind me telling that story, hes a great dude and a great friend that I've learned alot from, most of witch has nothing to do with footbag.

Great story BTW way Allan!!!
Last edited by shreddaily on 09 Jul 2005 01:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Allan
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Post by Allan »

shreddaily wrote: I think FLIP brought up a great thread to begin with.
I'll second that, for the second time ... ?
shreddaily wrote: I hope Pete doesn't mind me telling that story, hes a great dude and a great friend that I've learned alot from, most of witch has nothing to do with footbag.
I feel much the same way. Peter Irish IS Footbag ;) But he's also "Sweet Feet Pete" for so many other reasons. Peter, both you and Lonn are sweethearts :oops:

SJFF '04: I say: "You're my hero Pete!" To which he says "I like you too, Allan" :lol: Maybe ya had to be there ...
shreddaily wrote: Great story BTW way Allan!!!
Thanks :) I so don't have time for any of this, but I feel compelled. Having Ellis, Lon, Daryl, Richie, Jim, Peter, Lonn ... all posting on here in the past couple of days has been a blast :)
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BalinorNZ
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Post by BalinorNZ »

Thank you Allan for your post, I think it sums up the situation well.

My locking of the topics was reather excessive, my reasonling for locking the thread and censoring the post by Peter was to try and stop the situation escalating as it was clearly not benefiting the comunity whatsoever. Sorry if this was a lapse in judgment on my part.

Your right, it was very nice to have Ellis, Lon, Daryl, Richie, Jim, Peter, Lonn and all the other famous players sharing there thoughts and opinions in harmony, it is just a pity it turned sour.

On a final note, if anybody wishes to continue the conversatoin in the "No hands this is footbag" topic, please PM me or any other mod and it will be unlocked for you :) (that is if it is'nt already!)

I am glad an understanding has been reached ;).
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Tsiangkun
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Post by Tsiangkun »

shreddaily wrote:as I drop the bag to myself he jumps over and kicks the bag away and passes it to me.
<Voice = Nelson> HA HA </voice>
lonnirish
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Post by lonnirish »

Allan, I agree with you. I guess my first post was very general & open-ended. I wanted to be brief b/c I was about to leave work & didn't want to spend much time responding.

When you correspond with someone, you lose your rights to privacy. It is up to that person to give you privacy, through presumably friendship, trust, etc., or just common courtesy. In Damon's case, he did not deserve such courtesy when he discourteously sent Pete that extremely offensive email without any provocation.

Anyway, all's well that end's well.

Pete's selling $5 per copy of that email if anyone's interested.
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CIC flurry
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Post by CIC flurry »

It seems like alot of posts get taken way too seriously alot of times. I consider people's opinions when they make them well, but I don't change my mind instantly. When people make their points poorly, I try to understand their views, but their presentation (ie. talking shit in the same post) makes me take them less seriously, and obscures their point. I think most people understand when someone is a jackass, and take them less seriously (or disregard them altogether), so replying to their posts is not necessarily needed.

There's always people picking sides and getting out the heavy artillery (which is understandable for personal attacks) whenever someone posts something, but it just ain't that serious. Consider points, make yours and chill.
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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

Well having paid my $5 and read over Damon's pm - I think it was really unfair and wrong of Peter to post it publically and I'm surprised at his lack of judgement. I don't think it should have been censored from the topic but I still think it was the wrong thing to post. Most notable about the pm is that it mentions other peoples points of view - people who might not want everybody to know that that's how they feel.


Anyway it was Peter's choice and it's probably an issue that doesn't need discussing anymore. I just know for a fact that if I ever wrote a pm like that to somebody and they posted it publically I would be really pissed off about it. I guess you could say it's an ethical thing.
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mosher
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Post by mosher »

How come I never get mad at people online?

I'm missing all the fun!

Here's a little math equation I stayed up all night working on:

:footbag: > :evil:

Footbag is greater than being upset over stupid shit.

Frankly I think making a big deal about EITHER side of the self-serving debate is silly! Lets just play and have fun together! yay! :D

Oh yeah, and no more penis measuring, what are you fucking apes or something?

"My cru can like.. TOTALLY shredify your crew!~~~!!!"
:roll:
Tom Mosher

hate is a waste of passion!
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DoctorJay
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Post by DoctorJay »

As I read Damon's pm I have to say that I felt no need to post it publically.

I thought Damon that you wrote a lot of shit in this pm but there were a few aspects which made me wondering.

I am very curious to hear more about the BAP "guideline" in treating other shredders ...

Of course I won't comment to any subjective judgements of you referring to abilities of other shredders.

Thanks for reposting this letter ---- saved me 5 $ !

I hope that this was no real offer, because trying to make money in this way is something wierd to me.
Jochen Bauer

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http://www.paradoxfeet.de

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http://www.jochen-bauer.net
the Executioner
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Post by the Executioner »

Of course that $5 offer was a joke. Just a small attempt to lighten the situation. I thought it was funny.

There is no doubt that me posting Damon's PM was poor etiquette. But with no provocation I am sent an offensive email from someone who doesnt know me at all, accusing me of false motivations, slandering me and insulting at least 4 of my good friends, mentioning physical violence and generally putting me down. Besides that, in public I am told to fuck off and die, suck dick, and that I'm a sell out. How's that for etiquette? At the very most, I was simply offering Damon the same level of etiquette he offered me, and in this case I think I was the more polite one. The issue of etiquette was ignored by Damon to begin with. After his email, etiquette was the last thing I was worried about. Do I regret posting that PM? NO. Would I do it again? YES. I did or said nothing to Damon to warrant that attack. I was simply expressing my little opinion like everyone else.

Nonetheless, I hold no grudges towords Damon. The fact that he has stayed with this game for as long as he has even after some bitter dissapointment and anger is admirable. I think that overall his intentions are good. He is an assett to the sport and to this forum. I look forward to the next flame war, although next time I'd rather not be involved.
Peter Irish
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BalinorNZ
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Post by BalinorNZ »

Did you ever hear the saying "Two wrongs don't make a right" Peter?

It looks like my actions have been undone, so I am choosing to stay out of the topic from now on, as clearly some higher power has it covered ;).

I still don't agree with the PM being public though, it was an unnessisary action that involved the WHOLE forum in something that does not concern everybody. I'm not saying that is something you should keep to yourself, just keeping to those involved would be a better idea.

I hope there is no hard feelings about any of this, Peter :)
Cheers,
Nic Bathgate
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Post by professor »

the Executioner wrote:There is no doubt that me posting Damon's PM was poor etiquette....At the very most, I was simply offering Damon the same level of etiquette he offered me, and in this case I think I was the more polite one.
Wow?!?! So, as long as you don't do something as bad as someone else, it is ok?
Ben Skaggs

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Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

No, I don't play soccer. Yes, there are competitions. 4 years. Lots of practice.
the Executioner
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Post by the Executioner »

No, I didnt say it's ok. I'm not expounding any moral philosophies here. It may have been poor taste to post the PM, but it's how I chose to act and I stand by it. I was sucker punched and that's how I chose to defend myself. I dont regret it.

I was asked by the moderators if I wanted the PM back up, and I told them no. They made the decision to re-post it.

Of course there is no hard feelings from all this on my end, but I'm not putting any more of my time towards this. I can see why so many of my friends have dropped out of this forum. It's not worth getting sucked into this much negativity over an opinion. It's draining and I have better things to do with my time.
Peter Irish
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