So here we go with the videos. This first update has all the Open Freestyle finals routines and Big3 finals from Linnanmäki.
I will be adding more footage later today and tomorrow on this topic. The shred finals along with the best semifinals shred performances are coming online as well.
Videos are encoded using wmv9 codec, bitrate is from 512Kbps to 1Mbps.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OPEN FREESTYLE FINALS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Vasek Klouda
2. Jan Weber
3. Felix Zenger
4. Jorden Moir
5. Peter Irish
6. Gordon Bevier
7. Karim Daouk
8. Jan Struz
9. Jere Linnanen
10. Toni Pääkkönen
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BIG3 FINALS @ LINNANMÄKI AMUSEMENT PARK
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big 3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
OPEN SHRED 30 FINALS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Vasek Klouda
2. Jan Weber
3. Jorden Moir
4. Ken Somolinos
5. Felix Zenger
6. Mikko Lepistö
7. Juho Marjo
8. Toni Pääkkönen
9. Yves Kreil
10. Matthias Schmidt
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
OPEN SHRED 30 SEMIFINALS TOP10
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Vasek Klouda
2. Jan Weber
3. Felix Zenger
4. Yves Kreil
5. Toni Pääkkönen
6. Juho Marjo
7. Mikko Lepistök
8. Ken Somolinos
9. Jorden Moir
10. Matthias Schmidt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
WOMEN'S FREESTYLE FINALS TOP 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Carol Wedemeyer
2. Tina Aeberli
EDIT #1: Shred finals & semifinals added
EDIT #2: Women's finals added
WORLDS 05 VIDEO UPDATE
WORLDS 05 VIDEO UPDATE
Last edited by jerkki on 03 Aug 2005 00:48, edited 2 times in total.
Thank you much, nice to see this up on a fast server so soon after the competition.
Colin Kennedy
[email protected]
[email protected]
Ok I've now watched all the routines. Here are my comments!
Firstly thanks so much for getting the vids out so quickly. It's great to see. This should definitly be a priority at all footbag tournaments - it makes a really good impression - it makes it look like you're organised and have planned the entire event well so it gives you a lot of credit.
All the routines are fantastic - especially the first 8, but Jere and Toni also have excellent routines (although too many drops). Definitly the highest standard of footbag competition to date.
I think the actual results are fairly accurate and I think the technical scores are fairly accurate. I don't completely agree with all the technical scores but they are all around what I would expect.
However the artistic scoring completely sucks. If the judges are simply going to judge artistic merit on the same basis as technical merit then there is no point in giving two scores. I wish we knew who the judges were and they were expected to give comments on their scores because basically I think none of those judges have any kind of idea of what is meant by "artistic merit" at all. This is obviously a wider problem than just at this tournament and some much clearer definitions really need to be created so that people are clear on it. There are actually some ok guidelines that Steve Goldberg wrote but clearly the judges either didn't read those or completely ignored them. I could post up all the things I think are bullshit but basically there are way too many. Maybe later when I've written out the scores and compared them more.
Frankly I think the definition of artistic and the judging at competitions is by far the biggest problem in freestyle footbag competitions at the moment. In my opinion those scores reflect very badly on the judges and for that matter the IFPA and the tournament organisers. It is such a shame that such excellent routines have been spoiled by such horrible horrible judging. It's fucking ridiculous.
Things that really need to happen for footbag competitions:
1. Detailed definitions of what each score means.
2. Totally transperancy amongst judges - this includes reports from judges on every routine they judge.
3. Judges getting paid before players get any prize money.
Good judging is easily the most important part of any kind of competition and frankly at the moment footbag completely lacks it.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend any judges - I don't think the problem was with the people but with the IFPA and the rules and many other things - I'm sure you did your best and that's all anybody can ask for. Footbag is a new sport and we can't expect things to be perfect immediatly - every problem is a chance to make footbag competitions better.
Firstly thanks so much for getting the vids out so quickly. It's great to see. This should definitly be a priority at all footbag tournaments - it makes a really good impression - it makes it look like you're organised and have planned the entire event well so it gives you a lot of credit.
All the routines are fantastic - especially the first 8, but Jere and Toni also have excellent routines (although too many drops). Definitly the highest standard of footbag competition to date.
I think the actual results are fairly accurate and I think the technical scores are fairly accurate. I don't completely agree with all the technical scores but they are all around what I would expect.
However the artistic scoring completely sucks. If the judges are simply going to judge artistic merit on the same basis as technical merit then there is no point in giving two scores. I wish we knew who the judges were and they were expected to give comments on their scores because basically I think none of those judges have any kind of idea of what is meant by "artistic merit" at all. This is obviously a wider problem than just at this tournament and some much clearer definitions really need to be created so that people are clear on it. There are actually some ok guidelines that Steve Goldberg wrote but clearly the judges either didn't read those or completely ignored them. I could post up all the things I think are bullshit but basically there are way too many. Maybe later when I've written out the scores and compared them more.
Frankly I think the definition of artistic and the judging at competitions is by far the biggest problem in freestyle footbag competitions at the moment. In my opinion those scores reflect very badly on the judges and for that matter the IFPA and the tournament organisers. It is such a shame that such excellent routines have been spoiled by such horrible horrible judging. It's fucking ridiculous.
Things that really need to happen for footbag competitions:
1. Detailed definitions of what each score means.
2. Totally transperancy amongst judges - this includes reports from judges on every routine they judge.
3. Judges getting paid before players get any prize money.
Good judging is easily the most important part of any kind of competition and frankly at the moment footbag completely lacks it.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend any judges - I don't think the problem was with the people but with the IFPA and the rules and many other things - I'm sure you did your best and that's all anybody can ask for. Footbag is a new sport and we can't expect things to be perfect immediatly - every problem is a chance to make footbag competitions better.
-
SergeyKozlov
- BSOS Beast
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 29 Dec 2004 01:14
- Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
- Contact:
Yeah!
Thanks for videos jerkki!
And the judging is realy sucks imho. Especially the judging of Intermediate freestyle. many russian footbag team members thinks same way.
Thanks for videos jerkki!
And the judging is realy sucks imho. Especially the judging of Intermediate freestyle. many russian footbag team members thinks same way.
Last edited by SergeyKozlov on 14 Aug 2005 10:22, edited 1 time in total.
I thought this funny, since Steve was one of the judgeshere are actually some ok guidelines that Steve Goldberg wrote but clearly the judges either didn't read those or completely ignored them.
But seriously, I agree with Jeremy that judging could be a lot better. But as long as people are not interested in judging, just interested complaining about the judging, there will be no improvements. Freestyle judging is the most underrated job there is in Footbag. You put a lot of time and effort and work under pressure and the only thing you get from it is, is that people complain about it.
Just so I don't just complain myself, I will make a suggestion. I would like to see judging workshops _after_ the event, where the judges meet. There would be someone with authority (like Steve) who could say what would have been the right score for different routines and why. That way the judges would learn from their mistakes. Right now a judge can just put whatever and people will complain about it, but nothing will ever come out of it.
Juha Linnanen
yeah good post Juha and wise comments.
Just to be clear I'm trying to do a lot more than just complain. I've written up all the rules for freestyle footbag - how they are currently judged and I'm working on getting the rules updated. It's just clear to me that those hours of work are not enough and a lot more needs to be done. I'm vagualy hoping to inspire more people to become actively involved with the IFPA and to actually do something for this sport beyond the base level.
Just to be clear I'm trying to do a lot more than just complain. I've written up all the rules for freestyle footbag - how they are currently judged and I'm working on getting the rules updated. It's just clear to me that those hours of work are not enough and a lot more needs to be done. I'm vagualy hoping to inspire more people to become actively involved with the IFPA and to actually do something for this sport beyond the base level.
-
shreddaily
- Flower Child
- Posts: 1665
- Joined: 03 Sep 2003 16:56
Thanks for makeing these free!!!
It must have been tough choosing between felix and honza. I guess the extra drop plus ranking helped.
Oh man and peter and jodran coulda easily switched.
doohhh now that I think of it if I saw Honzas routine than petes I would have given it to pete. Maybe I'm biased.
Jeremy maybe you need to rethink what artistic interpretation means. I saw AI in all of these routines. these guys are the top shredders in the world, not alex zebrbe
. I think the only way AI will be changed is if someone like zebe makes it to finals and busts a dropless routine with plenty of big moves. Do you think you could manage that MR O wheel? Good luck.
edit..grrrrrr why did you have to go and post something logical like the post above this. This was suposed to be a flame war!!!
It must have been tough choosing between felix and honza. I guess the extra drop plus ranking helped.
Oh man and peter and jodran coulda easily switched.
doohhh now that I think of it if I saw Honzas routine than petes I would have given it to pete. Maybe I'm biased.
Jeremy maybe you need to rethink what artistic interpretation means. I saw AI in all of these routines. these guys are the top shredders in the world, not alex zebrbe
. I think the only way AI will be changed is if someone like zebe makes it to finals and busts a dropless routine with plenty of big moves. Do you think you could manage that MR O wheel? Good luck. edit..grrrrrr why did you have to go and post something logical like the post above this. This was suposed to be a flame war!!!
My complaints are not about the level of the routines - it was excellent. My problems are with the scores the judges gave those routines.
For example one judge gave Toni a score of 1.3 for artistic merit using these guidelines:
1.0 = poor (player has some artistic ability, but not much)
2.0 = weak (player is attempting performance, but lacks much skill)
Another judge scored Vasek for artistic at 5.4 and Honza at 5.7. There are plenty of other examples.
The process for changing the rules is very simple and I would suggest that you read up about it before commenting too much. I know what is meant by artistic interpretation because I've spent the last month or two going over the rules and writing them - with the help of other people involved in the sport - including the person who wrote the original guidelines and the actual system used in the competition. I think I have a good idea of what the rules actually are. In fact I can probably quote parts of them to you. I certainly know exactly which part of the rules refers to freestyle routines and exactly what it currently says and what it should say if it reflected what actually happened in the competition.
For example one judge gave Toni a score of 1.3 for artistic merit using these guidelines:
1.0 = poor (player has some artistic ability, but not much)
2.0 = weak (player is attempting performance, but lacks much skill)
Another judge scored Vasek for artistic at 5.4 and Honza at 5.7. There are plenty of other examples.
The process for changing the rules is very simple and I would suggest that you read up about it before commenting too much. I know what is meant by artistic interpretation because I've spent the last month or two going over the rules and writing them - with the help of other people involved in the sport - including the person who wrote the original guidelines and the actual system used in the competition. I think I have a good idea of what the rules actually are. In fact I can probably quote parts of them to you. I certainly know exactly which part of the rules refers to freestyle routines and exactly what it currently says and what it should say if it reflected what actually happened in the competition.
After checking out the 2004 rules, I'd like some clarification on what factors into the Artistic Interpretation score, and if/how these rules should be changed.
Obviously, things like playing to the beat, style, creative or visually pleasing move/combo selection, and (intentional) use of space while freestyling are very important parts of the AI score. But then there's stuff like Zerbe riding onstage on a tricycle and popping a balloon containing his bag, or Honza kneeling down... things that take no footbag skill whatsoever but add to the performance. I think those kinds of things should have little or no effect on the score, but how are judges actually supposed to evaluate these elements?
By the way, I am very pleased with how fast these videos came out. Thanks a lot!! Nothing is more irksome than having to wait months and months after a tournament before someone gets around to releasing footage.
Obviously, things like playing to the beat, style, creative or visually pleasing move/combo selection, and (intentional) use of space while freestyling are very important parts of the AI score. But then there's stuff like Zerbe riding onstage on a tricycle and popping a balloon containing his bag, or Honza kneeling down... things that take no footbag skill whatsoever but add to the performance. I think those kinds of things should have little or no effect on the score, but how are judges actually supposed to evaluate these elements?
By the way, I am very pleased with how fast these videos came out. Thanks a lot!! Nothing is more irksome than having to wait months and months after a tournament before someone gets around to releasing footage.
chris dean
Good job Jeremy for working with the rules. Is there already something updated that we could look at? Or is it still work in progress? When I mentioned complaining I wasn't simply refering to your last post. I've noticed that you do a lot more than just complain. It was just a general note. I agree with you that if more people would get involved with IFPA stuff, it would really help out. Maybe not all are aware of how to do that?
btw. It was really exciting to have 3 finnish players in the finals! Too bad Jere 's and Toni's final routines didn't go as well as in semis (Jere hit dropless for the semis). All in all, having made the finals was huge for Jere since he hasn't been playing that much because of the military time he had.
Oh and also - the videos are now available through the official worlds site as well! (all the net results are now updated too..)
btw. It was really exciting to have 3 finnish players in the finals! Too bad Jere 's and Toni's final routines didn't go as well as in semis (Jere hit dropless for the semis). All in all, having made the finals was huge for Jere since he hasn't been playing that much because of the military time he had.
Oh and also - the videos are now available through the official worlds site as well! (all the net results are now updated too..)
Juha Linnanen
Oh my god. Gordon's routine was so awesome! Great music, i think it was awesome AI, but apparently it wasnt (im sure as hell not qualified to tell though)
Like, he plays to the crowd, he hit some sweet stuff, and the shoulder roll thing was awesome
I agree Josiah, Bevier's was my favorite also!
Like, he plays to the crowd, he hit some sweet stuff, and the shoulder roll thing was awesome
I agree Josiah, Bevier's was my favorite also!
JSACK wrote:alright well me and obara'bars, shredded our dicks off, since we are both in high school, obviously there is some sort of talent show
-
mahhkohh
- Flower Child
- Posts: 1944
- Joined: 22 Feb 2005 08:36
- Location: near stuttgart,germany
- Contact:
i just watched the whole thing...i dont knw all the rules but i can say that i realy liked what i saw...front of all,the one finnish guy,jere linannen or so,i realy laughed out loud when i saw him dexing the bag with his hands while switching clippers,cuse i do this alot when i wait for someone and kick around,and i allways thought i might be the only one doing this,and now,9th place on worlds does it...sau-nice
mayor props to any contestants,u did a great job!and thanks to jerki for posting them so fast!i´ll be looking forward for sick 3 and so on
mayor props to any contestants,u did a great job!and thanks to jerki for posting them so fast!i´ll be looking forward for sick 3 and so on
come get your mÃcrÖ¶ bag today
buy one of my bags and help finance my guitar lessons
mäcrö hartig
buy one of my bags and help finance my guitar lessons
mäcrö hartig
Huge thanks to the cameramen and film editors that got these out so quickly. It's much appreciated, truly.
The level of competition was sick. They ripped it to pieces up there.
It's easy to criticize the judges if you don't agree with their decisions. They worked their asses off all week and did their best to be fair so this event could happen. Just remember that before you go flaming them publicly.
The level of competition was sick. They ripped it to pieces up there.
It's easy to criticize the judges if you don't agree with their decisions. They worked their asses off all week and did their best to be fair so this event could happen. Just remember that before you go flaming them publicly.
Steve Johnson
http://www.pdga.com
http://www.pdga.com
Thanks SO much to the entire Worlds 2005 crew for their excellent and unprecedented organization and coverage of this event for those of us unable to make it out. You all RULE!
Jeremy, First of all, I want to preface this by thanking you for all the work you've been doing recently and for your activism on behalf of IFPA. It is greatly appreciated.
That being said, I have to respond critically about your statements thus far in this thread (BTW this is not the thread to be having this discussion - it should be split).
It's easy to say that the judging sucks until you are in the position of being a judge for an event like this. I honestly don't think you should be making such critical statements about judging results until you've been one.
This is not to blast you for your inexperience, and it's not to say that your input is not very valuable and appreciated. But lighten up a bit. You can't say that the judging was "horrible". You weren't there. You don't know what it's like.
As Juha said, what we need are more people interested in being judges and, not only that, but then have those people get out to all the tournaments and get lots of experience. It's all about the experience. You can study the rules until you're blue in face but still totally screw things up when under pressure.
Jeremy, First of all, I want to preface this by thanking you for all the work you've been doing recently and for your activism on behalf of IFPA. It is greatly appreciated.
That being said, I have to respond critically about your statements thus far in this thread (BTW this is not the thread to be having this discussion - it should be split).
It's easy to say that the judging sucks until you are in the position of being a judge for an event like this. I honestly don't think you should be making such critical statements about judging results until you've been one.
This is not to blast you for your inexperience, and it's not to say that your input is not very valuable and appreciated. But lighten up a bit. You can't say that the judging was "horrible". You weren't there. You don't know what it's like.
As Juha said, what we need are more people interested in being judges and, not only that, but then have those people get out to all the tournaments and get lots of experience. It's all about the experience. You can study the rules until you're blue in face but still totally screw things up when under pressure.
