importance of uniformity of stitching

[mc]

I was reading a post about abshires, and made a comment about how I'd seen some with un-uniform stitching, and some with mis-sized panels. Richie said I should try his new models, and that I should keep in mind that he focuses on performance above all else, ie: performance before perfect stitching. That led me to an interesting question:

Does a perfectly-stitched footbag with all it's edges the same, all it's panels the same size, and absolute roundness before it's broken in, play better than a footbag that is not quite as round, with a some difference in the size of the panels, and not-so-straight, even stitching?

I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on this, especially stitchers.

[BalinorNZ]

I think that perfect stiching will help a bag's performance, but is not as important as having a good pattern.

[skimhumboldt?]

I make my own bags and I have an abshire. once the bag is broken in i think there isnt much difference except the abshires just look better to the eye. To me i cant really tell the difference in performance except mines a bit heavyer. the 32 i stitched has all right stitching but some panels are bigger than others and uneven stitching ect. not nearly as good of stitching as an abshire.

[Tsiangkun]

I know richie doesn't put a lot of time into placing the stitches, compare a richie to a felix to see the difference.

I don't think the perfectness of the stitch has any bearing on the quality of the bag or the bags performance. Performance comes from the bag once it's broke in.

Someone could stitch a perfect looking bag, but if they have too much gather, the wrong type of thread, the wrong filler, or even the wrong panel template size, the bag won't break in as nice as a less perfectly stitched by from someone who knows what they are doing and designed the bag to break in for performance.

[mosher]

I respect the stitcher of a nicely stitched bag more than I respect the stitcher of a shittily stitched bag.

I think it is lame to not focus on stitching it uniformly.

Aesthetics count too!

A bag will break in more uniformly if it is all stitched exactly.

Maybe that's why Felix bags are godly and Abshire bags are average.

[DUSTER]

yup,i agree with ya mosher.

[hacksterbator]

i think it's of very high importance. i have tried NUMEROUS stitchers, and in my experience have found that the bags with the most uniform stitches have stuck around the longest. i still have my fred bag that i have been kicking for well over a year, and it doesn't have a single hole in it. i believe that because of the uniform stitches, the panels were broken in evenly and uniformly, one didn't get huge and bust out, like i have had with bags that didn't have a uniform stitch. i had a certain bag that was wonky, at best. it had very uneven panels and wacky stitching. that bag lasted me about 3 weeks. it played very well for those 3 weeks, but then panles started blowing out like no ones business.

[Wasabi]

Stitching is important as well as uniformity, yes I agree, but I don't see many distinct correlations to how well they perform. There's just so many components that define a great bag, such as the "methods" of breaking in bags. People have their own rituals, their ways of treating their own bag in their freestyle game, and the manners of abuse that are incurred on when they are in use. Filler, fabric, environment - there's a lot to consider. Personally, I see stitching and uniformity as ways to prolonging the life of your bag a bit to make an even expansion whence breaking-in, but how it performs depends on what materials are used and the behavior of the user. Just my two cents (even less credible with my tired body suffering from shred-exhaustion ).

[Toby]

I think that when go from a Mr Sandman to a 32 panel, you are sacrificing stallability for predictability(which is vital if you are guiltless).

What makes a good 32 panel is how predictable it is. If the seams are uneven, and the panels aren't consistent, the bag will behave weirdly. It might not take a straight path when flying through the air, and it might roll off your foot when it lands on a badly stitched side.

I think that the material and fill used just effects how well the bag stalls. You might as well use a Sandman, rather than a badly stitched 32 panel.

[Chema]

I was reading a post about abshires, and made a comment about how I'd seen some with un-uniform stitching, and some with mis-sized panels. Richie said I should try his new models, and that I should keep in mind that he focuses on performance above all else, ie: performance before perfect stitching. That led me to an interesting question:

Does a perfectly-stitched footbag with all it's edges the same, all it's panels the same size, and absolute roundness before it's broken in, play better than a footbag that is not quite as round, with a some difference in the size of the panels, and not-so-straight, even stitching?

I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on this, especially stitchers.

No offence Oh Great Matt God of Modified, but I don't think Richie mean't that he purposely makes panels uneven etc. because it helps performance. I think what he mean't by "performance above all else" is that he puts lots of time into engineering his bags, and that they are constantly getting better so you should see some of his current good ones.
I think performance and perfect stitching come absolutely hand-in-hand.
But then again, I've never stitched a bag in my life.

[mc]

I think performance and perfect stitching come absolutely hand-in-hand.
But then again, I've never stitched a bag in my life.

I'm starting to think you've also never seen an Abshire in your life...

I don't think Richie mean't that he purposely makes panels uneven etc. because it helps performance.

You're putting words in my mouth. What's worse, is that you're using words that don't exist, like "mean't", when you do it.

Richie's words are his own. I noted that his stitches aren't always even, he responded with, "keep in mind, I put performance before all else." That seems to be a direct response to what I said, as he didn't otherwise deny or respond to me saying that his stitches aren't always even. Based on that, I can confidently say that he feels that exact stitching is secondary to performance.

I think what he mean't by "performance above all else" is that he puts lots of time into engineering his bags, and that they are constantly getting better so you should see some of his current good ones.

Richie's stitching career is long past the point of his stitching style settling in and "constantly getting better". Or rather, they could be constantly getting better, but they are not constantly getting closer to where he wants them to be. They ARE where he wants them to be. He's got to be the most experienced person out there. If he wanted perfect, even stitching, he could do it, but he obviously doesn't feel that it's absolutely important, so he focuses on... other things (I don't know what). He's long past the point where he would be saying, "oh, just let me make a few more, and my style will clean up".

He's not saying that. He likes his style. And I'm curious to know his opinion concerning why, and I'm curious to know the opinions of other stitchers regarding the same matter in terms of their own stitching experience.

Now, can we direct this discussion back to what people with real opinions are saying?

p.s.:

No offence Oh Great Matt God of Modified...

If you really didn't want to be offensive, you wouldn't be so facetiously reverant.

[richardabshire]

Wow Matt, I didn't know that you were so disgusted with my product. Its a shame that this kind of crap keeps coming out. Now I know why some stitchers wont sell their bags to certain people. I don't really mine the crititcism about my footbags, but assuming that you know me and how I make footbags is a bit much. I would love to go face to face with anyone in this sport and debate the quality and performance of any bag. I am sure my critic of other stitchers can be just as harsh and more accurate than other opinions. While most are bitching about my product, I am shredding tripless with them everyday. Just defending myself. No hard feelings to anyone. Richard Abshire

[jon]

Richard, I am curious to know what other stitchers you believe make the best bags out there at the moment and how your latest bags compare to them.

Thanks

[Nathan]

Richie, I don't think Matt was trying to say that he is disgusted with your bags, just curious as to why you feel that perfect stitching isn't required to make a top notch bag.

[mc]

Richie, I don't think Matt was trying to say that he is disgusted with your bags, just curious as to why you feel that perfect stitching isn't required to make a top notch bag.

Richie,

Nathan got it perfect. I'm not knowledgeable enough about footbags and how they're made to say how much "perfect" stitching actually effects performance. Your post last week or so in that other thread brought that fact to light for me. That's the reason I started this thread; read it again with that "tone" in mind, and I think you'll see what I mean. I didn't mean to further criticize your bag.

No hard feelings from this end, either. I'm just trying to fish up some opinions from people like you who actually know what they're talking about in regards to this issue. You, Mr Abshire, are the one I'd like to hear from most.

I would love to go face to face with anyone in this sport and debate the quality and performance of any bag.

Here's your chance, only, it's not much of a debate. I just want to know what you think.

m

[richardabshire]

Right now I am working on three new footbags to put out there in addition to perfecting the round panel for better performance. This has taken some time and it is finally starting to work the way I want them to. My stitching time is less than other stitchers and I produce more bags. This has lead to a production method that I stick by. If you stitch a panel the wrong way and tear it out, you have just ruined the strength of the side of the panel. I make bags in one shot, perfect or not. My focus is how the bag plays when you feel that it is broken and ready to shred with. There was a time when all stitchers out there made perfectly looking bags, but they lacked the performance needed. I am woking on the performance aspect of stitching. That keeps the product advancement steady. I feel for most of the stitchers out there, because if they start a business making what they make, the larger companies will sue you and push you out. I decided to focus on what the larger companies can't and won't do and that is provide the best performing bag on the market. Imagine entering a car race and your paint job isn't perfect, but you have the fastest engine. What will help you more, a nice paint jog or a better engine. Once my new bags are perfected, the look will get better, but the performance will go through the roof. If this doesn't answer your questions, then hit me up with some more q and a. Its nice to talk about this in a mature manner and resolve unanswered questions. Hope this helps, Richard Abshire

[Chema]

Matt, were you in a bad mood when you responded to my post? because I was just showing a different interpretation of what Richie said.

Fuck, man... don't be an asshole just because someone offers a different possible opinion or disagrees with you.

PS. Don't get all pissed off because of this post, I was just pretty offended by your previous response. If you really feel like you're so much better than me, then just don't pay any attention to me at all.

[Paul Agostinelli]

PS. Don't get all pissed off because of this post, I was just pretty offended by your previous response. If you really feel like you're so much better than me, then just don't pay any attention to me at all.

knowing matt, that'll piss him off more than anything you've said

in his defense, he doesnt think he's better than the newbs he meets all the time, i doubt it even crossed (haha crossed) his mind.

he was just responding to your opinion with his opinion as this is all that this thread is about.

~NEL~

[FlexThis]

♫ Raindrops on roses,
♫ And whiskers on kittens,
♫ Bright copper kettles,
♫ And warm woolen mittens,
♫ Quality footbags,
♫ Tied up with strings,
♫ These are a few of my favorite things . . .

Thought this thread could use some sunshine.

~peace
Damon

[HG]

No offence Oh Great Matt God of Modified

Thats probably the most offensive thing said in this thread