importance of uniformity of stitching

[mc]

okay, okay, enough about all that. I shouldn't have been so severe (nor should I have been so severe in the PM I sent him about that last post ). I should have just cleared up the misconception, and maybe left a rolling-eyes smiley. Sorry I got all pissy, everyone. back to bags?

anyway, richie, would you care to share with us some of the things that you focus on with your technique when making high-performance footbags? I hope there's a way to discuss that without sharing all your trade secrets.

Also, someone asked you who you feel makes the best footbags right now, and why. That would also be a really interesting thing to read.

ILJA MITROFANOV, are you reading this? I'd DEFINITELY like to hear from you regarding this discussion...

Ilja's bags are my favorite right now (although, I admit, I haven't tried an A910). After breakin, they sit perfectly on your foot with a tiny little bit of cradle, and fly right off your foot straight and true, just how you want it to. They were my favorites from Worlds, as I've said before, and I can't wait to own one some day.

Anyway, his bags all look the same, and aesthetically, they are perfectly, evenly stitched all over, and stitched consistently from bag to bag, making them pretty easily identifiable. They are also very high-performance footbags, preferred by a lot of european players. So, it would be interesting to get a different point of view on the matter.

[mosher]

Even if it turns out that exact uniformity doesn't play a significant role in bag performance (as in perhaps other things count alot more) I still think that appearances count.

Yesterday I was looking at Johnny Suderman's abshire mini money bag that he got in a trade. I am not trying to bash Richard here, I am just speaking honestly, the bag was ugly. Frankly, if I made a bag for someone and it came out like that I wouldn't mail it out, I would make a new one for them and keep that for myself. It seemed almost rude to Johnny since I bet he poured his fingers and thread into the bag he made for abshire. I don't know.. I guess performance is what matters most, but I think a sharp looking bag is the LEAST you should expect when paying $35 US for a fucking hacky sack!

I don't want to buy a bag that was stitched really fast if that means I wind up with bag that looks like it was stitched really fast.

I recognize that bag stitching is a tricky thing, Ive spent some time trying my hands at it. I am trying to make super exact bags like Felix's or Ilja's, because they are the best bags in the world right now.

According to physics a round uniform object will float through the air along a smoother trajectory than one that is lopsided or uneven for whatever reason. Want to know why a knuckle ball is so unpredicable and crazy? because the ball is flying through the air with relatively little spin (like a footbag) and the uneven surface causes generally unpredictable things to happen in the boundary layer of air as the uneven parts distrupt the layer causing swirling vortexes (that'd be a tight trick) of air to spin off in unpredictable and random ways and hence the ball wobbles thought the air.
The reason it doesn't experience this crazy motion when it's spinning is because the stitches whip around so fast that the surface appears relatively smooth to the oncoming air and then the baseball just obeys the run of the mill basic laws of phyics of spinning speres in projectile motion.

Sooooo the moral of the story is, make bags even and round and they will fly through the air along a predictable path.

[Leuch]

This thread is interesting...
But I just can't understand/ believe Richard when he/you say that when your bags are good looking, they loose performance, and that when they are "ugly", they have good performance.. This is just SO absurd!

And i'm also really curious about what you do to increase the performance aspect of the bags as you say pretty often.. since a pretty long time... Of course, you won't tell me, but I just cannot imagine how you really can work for real on this...

[richardabshire]

I never said perfectly stitched bags have less performance value. What I said is that I focus on the bags performance before the bags looks. Thanks TOM MOSHER for you honest opinion about my products. I will take it for what its worth. As for the money bag I sent Jon for a trade, it was a nice bag. I looked at the bag he sent me and my opinion of his stitching is this, nice work, but not enough gather in the stitch, by no means are all the panels even and yes it has a permanant lopsided look to it. That could be from the stitching or from mailing in a smalll envelope. The weight is not a match to the size and the white pentagons will blow out in less than a week due to the stress on those panels. Just to add, I was making something close to that in 1998 when the clean straight stitch was in great demand. That era of footbag has passed. We have reach a point in the evolution of this sport to break down new walls and cross over to the next level. My opinion will be reserved for original stitchers who create their own and don't copy the crap designs off the web. What is strange to me Mr. Mosher is that you are so quick to bash someone without knowing the person. When we meet and we will, I think your opinion of my product will change.
Keep all this in mind when you see footage of me tagging nemesis at the age of 34. I can't wait for the day that some of you new stitchers get hit with 50 bag orders in a month and your customers want it next week, what will you do then. No time for school, shred , fun or friends, just stitching bags and waiting for a negative response. Then you might see what I have to go through every day of my life. I believe in what I am doing and will stick by it , heart and soul. Hope this helps, Richard Abshire

[Chema]

First of all, I too am sorry about my pissyness. (Sorry again Matt, I can't wait to shred with you some day )

Anyway, this is just what I gathered from Richie's post; I think that what he means by the performance over perfect stitching is that the bag plays better when the panels kinda stick out a little, so that the stitching is a little more bunched-up. Like the same concept as the blister bag on worldfootbag.com.
I may be way totally completely off, so whatever.
But if I'm right, I hope I didn't say anything that Richie didn't want to say, sorry in advance

[HG]

Just stop trying to explain something you dont understand Chema.





He ISNT saying that a poorly stitched bag plays better.


he is saying that he focuses on performance, and how the BAG LOOKS DOESNT MATTER.


WHAT HE ISNT SAYING:

-Bags that look bad play better
-Bags that look good play like shit

[Will Digges]

Ok, I don't know a lot about stitching but I have played with many kinds of bags from broken in abshires to broken in ilja's and felix's. I think that Ilja's are the best bag out there now too, They have almost perfect symetry and once they are broken in they play so good. Not to mention that these bags can go a long time without wear and tear. My brother josh has had his ilja for like 6 months now and there is not one sign of holes or wearing. These are some tough bags. On the other hand the old abshire we had in our club, It was very good too, it broke in quicker I know that, but it seemed to have holes and wear before the ilja had none. I think any bag is playable once its broken in enough, just some techniques are different.

[Tsiangkun]

I think the reason abshire bags look different is because you are comparing them to the wrong thing. Lots of stitchers put five pentagons around a hexagon with nice straight lines and perfect seams. I assume a perfect soccer ball is what you think his bags should look like.

Does your abshire look like that ? Mine don't either. Neither the regulars or my A-910. I've had the same color pattern for 4 bags, and they are nearly indistinguishable in size and shape from each other.

Richard makes bags that are consistently like the bags Richard makes. I switched to his bags 8 years ago for the performance.

[Leuch]

Lots of stitchers put five pentagons around a hexagon

Wow!! That might do crazy bags!!!

[Tsiangkun]

oops.
s/(pentagon)(.*?)(hexagon)/$3$2$1/;

]

[brian relly]

Ok, I don't know a lot about stitching but I have played with many kinds of bags from broken in abshires to broken in ilja's and felix's. I think that Ilja's are the best bag out there now too, They have almost perfect symetry and once they are broken in they play so good. Not to mention that these bags can go a long time without wear and tear. My brother josh has had his ilja for like 6 months now and there is not one sign of holes or wearing. These are some tough bags. On the other hand the old abshire we had in our club, It was very good too, it broke in quicker I know that, but it seemed to have holes and wear before the ilja had none. I think any bag is playable once its broken in enough, just some techniques are different.

Word. Ilja>My own mother.

[ptaku]

I agree that Ilja Bags are the best stiched bags on the market ... And I think that the uniformity of stiching is what makes them the best... And this perfect stiches and even panels give mad good performace...

Althought Ilja could use a bit bigger filler ;]

[Will Digges]

I agree that Ilja Bags are the best stiched bags on the market ... And I think that the uniformity of stiching is what makes them the best... And this perfect stiches and even panels give mad good performace...

Althought Ilja could use a bit bigger filler ;]

I agree.

[iljuha]

heyo,

in my opinion the more perfect the stitching is the better will be the performance of the bag on foot, for those reasons: 1) the bag will break in much faster, coz the stitch is straight and with that is less fabric beeing "used" on the places where the panels are being stitched together. so no useless extra fabric in the bag. 2) when the bag is broken in it will be perfectly round(ofcorse depends on the fabric thickness, but if you use right proportions and patterns, there wont be any problem(ala. one side of the bag is more broken in than other)). so this way will also the filler cover perfectly bags "landing sides" from inside, so the the bag will stall much better. 3) refilling of the bag is easier, as the holes are equal(not so important reason:D) 4) also the pressure on the stitchs is equal, so is lower possibilty that thread will break(but this again depends quite much on the thread, which is being used).
okay, those are some reasons why i prefer more "better as possible" stitchs, but its only my opinion. for sure i forgot something important, but doesnt matter, hopefully it will come on my mind next time

shred hard bros !
iljuha

[Commodore]

I feel sorry for richard. People are always trying to find bad in good and popular things. I recently bought an Iljabag and it's great although I haven't tried other good 32 panel bags.

[ted]

Abshire bags are consistently high quality, moreso than any other stitcher I have ordered from in the last 5 years. He has nothing to worry about.

[Moxie]

http://www.modified.ca/footbag/viewtopi ... highlight=

It feels somewhat wrong that someone who specializes in making bags is forced by the masses to go to a style he feels he evolved from 5 years ago.

I would rather get a bag made of the stitcher's choice of colors and (somewhat less the) weight because he/she will know which ones make the best bag for the long run, and I would rather have the stitcher's choice of stitch because he/she will know which one will make the best bag in for long run. If the stitcher is any good.

[Tsiangkun]

well put moxie.