Adds, Xdex, PDX.....

sergio · Post by **sergio** » 30 Aug 2005 23:11

I've heard a few times that Xdex is just the continuation of paradox. That seems true to me, but only for dexes that are done with opposite legs, i.e sumo, toe blur, atomsmasher.
Now assuming that quantum same mirage has an xdex, where would it be classified? And does tap also get an xdex since atomic and mirage are full dexes? And what about nuclear ss mirage?

And if same side components with full dexes don't get xdex (because they're not considered 'full'), then nuclear ss blender would be 5 adds, just like pdx blender. And since these are exactly the same trick except that nuclear ss blender has one more dex, than adds wouldn't reflect the number of components in that example

I hope what I wrote is comprehensible, and sorry if there already was a topic about this.

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 30 Aug 2005 23:24

does not nuclear get pdx?

sergio · Post by **sergio** » 30 Aug 2005 23:31

Not if there is a ss component after it (I think)..

Ners · Post by **Ners** » 31 Aug 2005 00:05

I believe it's something like this:

Nuclear ss Mirage doesn't have Pdx or Xdex on the first dex, but it has Pdx for the second dex (because it's basically a Pdx Mirage if you forget about the first dex). This way it's add value is higher then Tap. Same with Nuclear ss Blender and Pdx Blender. I hope this is not confusing

Szymon Kałwak (Ners)

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 31 Aug 2005 00:15

oh ta... i was also wondering if that was the case

sergio · Post by **sergio** » 31 Aug 2005 00:48

Then after a nuclear set both mirages are pdx? That's a bit paradoxical!

The example with pdx blender and nuclear ss blender also applies to pdx mirage and nuclear ss mirage.
I'm pretty sure nuclear ss mirage is only a 3 adds..

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 31 Aug 2005 01:06

I have always considered nuclear ss mirage to be a 4 add although I really don't have any great reasoning for that. Just if you do the move without one of the dexes it's a 3 add - ie it's a pdx mirage with an extra dex. Am at work - will try and comment more later

Tuukka · Post by **Tuukka** » 31 Aug 2005 02:08

I've also always considered pdx tap as 4 add. I think that nuclear set should always get paradox. I know it is stupid and against the rules

So I also consider tornado (nuclear ingyro mirage) as a 5add move. But I have the easiest solution for you. Just play and fuck the adds

HG · Post by HG » 31 Aug 2005 04:27

Nuke is paradox

period

sergio · Post by **sergio** » 31 Aug 2005 04:53

Tuukka, I'll fuck adds when shred 30 scores won't be counted with adds.

On the Hackrifice move list, nuclear same mirage is a 3. Andrew Grant (To not name anybody

) also told me once that nuclear ss blender was a 5, not a 6..

And Henry, there is a 'period' key on your keyboard, you don't have to write it in full letters.

Edit : 75(Adds)th post!!!

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 31 Aug 2005 07:00

sergio said:

And does tap also get an xdex since atomic and mirage are full dexes? And what about nuclear ss mirage?

Sergio, Tap doesn't get X-Dex. And further, Tap is not Atomic, it is Tapping. And Tapping is not a full dex. Yeah, the dex is done just like Atomic, but its not a full dex because the dexing leg only goes over the top of the bag, it does not go back under it (or, if you prefer to think of it this way, the leg circles in front of the bag but not behind it). Similarly, the mirage is not always a full dex. A mirage from clipper is not a full dex because the dex goes over the bag, but not necessarily back under it (it circles in front of the bag, but doesn't circle behind it). Stepping sets are essentially mirages from clipper, but Stepping is not a full dex. The mirage component of Tap is more like a mirage from clipper (where the dex passes over the bag but not under it) than a mirage from toe (where, ordinarily, the dexing leg passes under the bag and then over it, or cirlces behind the bag and then in front of it).

Tuukka, I don't think that Nuclear should ALWAYS be paradox just because many Nuclear moves are. I think that pivoting your body back in the direction opposite from the direction you pivot to hit the nuclear set is essential to paradox. Consider, for instance, a Nuclear Inspinning Mirage: all the rotating you do is in one direction. There is no change of momentum, so there is no paradox.

I see it like this: Nuclear op toe is paradox because, in theory, you must pivot in one direction to hit the nuclear dex, and pivot back the other way for the opposite toe stall; it's essentially the same as paradox illusion. Nuclear same toe is NOT paradox because after pivoting one way to hit the dex, you don't have to pivot the opposite way to do the same-toe stall; it's essentially a far leg-over. Nuclear Same Osis would be no more paradox than a Refraction. Nuclear Opp Osis would be paradox in the same way that Paradox Flux is. Just because you've done an up-time out-in dex from same clipper doesn't mean that it automatically satisfies all the criteria of Paradox. In fact, its not even necessarily a full dex. Nuclear Opp Clipper is essentially an up-time butterfly, and thats not a full dex.

Faco · Post by **Faco** » 31 Aug 2005 10:57

I Agree.
Would the same theory also apply for Pdx Miraging set (btw, remind me what is the name of this set)?

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 31 Aug 2005 11:41

Yeah. Jon Explained it well.

And I don't think that Far Tap is paradox, either...

I think that we always should consider previous and following component when we're thinking about full dexes, paradox, x-dexes. In Far Tap The Nuclear dex isn't full, because the leg goes only over it... And them in the Mirage the leg is moving over the bag again. The leg is never behind/under the bag.

And about ss and other... Consider Atomic/Nuclear ss Illusion.. You don't need the hip-pivot for the Illusion, after both sets, you need leggy movement. But... I think that It's still X-DEX (maybe not paradox if we consider the case with Nuclear). There are definately 2 full dexes... And this leads to my point...

I don't think about X-DEX only as about a continuation of Paradox. I think about it as any eXtra effort that is needed to complete DEXterity. It can be speed, hip-pivot and... (nothing else comes on my mind).

sergio · Post by **sergio** » 31 Aug 2005 12:17

Thanks for clearing that out Jon! That's what I thought.
But good point Pawel, what about nuclear same illusion and tapping illusion? They get an xdex add right?
And does quantum ss mirage get xdex also? is the mirage considered a full dex? I think so because toe barrage gets an xdex (does it really??)

So I was right about nuclear same blender and paradox blender, they have the same number of adds, but not the same number of components

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 31 Aug 2005 12:39

Yeah. I think so about Blender. It's like Fairy ss Blender and Paradox Blender. Nuclear ss Blender is like a Neo (Inside set Fairy) ss Blender.
The fact that you changed the side where the bag is makes Blender non-paradox.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 31 Aug 2005 16:49

tapping illusion is still a half dex followed by a full dex. if tapping mirage doesn't get x-dex, why should tapping illusion (essetially the same dove, but with one dex reversed) be any different?

fuck adds.

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 31 Aug 2005 19:06

Atomic ss Mirage doesn't get x-dex because your leg does not go under the bag at any point during the trick. So tapping illusion should be no different?

No way. Atomic ss Illusion is DEFINITELY two full dexes. It's 780 degrees of dex. You're going around it twice in the same direction. How can it be anything else?

Does dellusion get x-dex? Atomic ss illusion is in essence the same thing dex-wise.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 31 Aug 2005 20:29

Yeah, I'm with Kevin on this. Tapping Illusion has got two full dexes (not that I really like x-dex, especially applied to any single-leg double dexes; I don't think toe barrage needs an extra ADD). That first dex, the tap, becomes full when you come back under/behind the bag to get your leg in place to do the second dex (which also goes all the way over/in-front-of and under/behind before you can finish on the opp toe).

Personally, I always thought of X-Dex only applying to two-leg dexing moves, and only when the two legs had to cross paths. For instance, in Atom Smasher and Omlette both legs kind of have to cross in front of each other. These tricks are "harder" because you have to keep your legs from banging into each other or becoming tangled. The dexing movements of each leg could potentially interfere with one-another. On the other hand, in Toe Blizzard, both legs go over the bag in the same direction without having to cross in the air. The legs don't have to be in each other's way, and so shouldn't qualify for extra difficulty ADDs. Thats just how I've always felt about X-Dex (I kind of thought that the X in the name X-Dex refered to the legs being crossed...), but thats a whole different debate.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 31 Aug 2005 20:40

okay, well here's where we reach problems with x-dex and pdx. is stepping mirage 3 adds and slapping mirage 4 adds with x-dex? not looking at the set location, they are jobbed identically. are we going to shift every thing in to toe favour? kevin, don't answer this.

sergio · Post by **sergio** » 31 Aug 2005 21:59

I also believe that tapping illusion should get an xdex. So do I believe toe blizzard and quantum ss mirage should have xdex *runs away*

I've always thought of xdex as extra [dex] add.