spinning or gyro ducking?

DoctorJay · Post by **DoctorJay** » 27 Sep 2005 22:21

Can anyone explain the difference to me please .

when I set - half spin - duck and end in an clipper . what was this ?

just another question :

what is a far legover ? clip ss legover or clip op legover . I always wonder if the foot or the side is the reference.

Paul Agostinelli · Post by **Paul Agostinelli** » 27 Sep 2005 22:23

spinning ducking clipper.

far legover is clip op legover

clip>same out[dex]>same toe[del]

~NEL~

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 27 Sep 2005 22:33

It depends which clipper you end in, it sounds like it could be either a gyro weaving clipper, or a spinning ducking. I lean more towards gyro weaving, because you said half a spin.

Spinning ducking clipper: clip > back(spin) [BOD] > (duck) [BOD] > same clip [XBD][DEL]
Gyro weaving clipper: clip > back(spin) [BOD] > (duck) [BOD] > op clip [XBD][DEL]

Little difference in Job's, HUGE difference in the trick.

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 27 Sep 2005 22:38

a clipper set legover that ends on the same foot that set the bag is called a "far legover," or a clipper same legover. A clipper set legover than ends on the oe of the opposite foot is called a "clipper same side legover," or clipper ss legover. Its confusing, but the distinction is same vs same side.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 27 Sep 2005 22:54

boo "gyro diving/weaving"

yay spinning diving/weaving! (proper nomenclature imo...)

Piechu · Post by **Piechu** » 27 Sep 2005 23:20

Erik Chan wrote:It depends which clipper you end in, it sounds like it could be either a gyro weaving clipper, or a spinning ducking. I lean more towards gyro weaving, because you said half a spin.

Spinning ducking clipper: clip > back(spin) [BOD] > (duck) [BOD] > same clip [XBD][DEL]
Gyro weaving clipper: clip > back(spin) [BOD] > (duck) [BOD] > op clip [XBD][DEL]

Little difference in Job's, HUGE difference in the trick.

maybe it's not a big thing, but for me name for "gyro weaving clipper" is wrong. i understand that name isn't so important but footbag have some rules for me, why don't You write "peeking" instead "gyro". what i want to say: gyro is oly then, when after the spin You do dex (same, setting leg)
peeking is that kind of spin what You talking about right now. peeking is like gyro - spining op clip, but without dex. So one more time, why Gyro and not peeking?? it isn't so hard to replace and everyone will understand this too. it's strange for me why it's so big thing to change...;/ You really want to talking easier even when it isn't correct?? if Yes, so for what this both concepts was invented?? ( I mean PEEKING - spin op clip without dex and GYRO - spin op clip with setting leg dex)

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 27 Sep 2005 23:44

No, Damian, you would be wrong. Peeking is a double spin type of component in which you spin, then spin the other direction, followed by a near component. Peeking clipper has two spins in it.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 28 Sep 2005 03:44

Sooo...is spinning ducking really a spinning ducking or a spinning weaving? Are the names ducking/weaving or diving/zulu always "given" by the set side no matter what components there are in between the set and duck/dive, or does the last component before the duck/dive give the name? This has been confusing me a lot.

And like I've said like 1,000 times: life would be a lot easier if people used "same side" or "same foot" instead of just same.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 28 Sep 2005 05:21

Gyro Ducking is actually Spinning Weaving.

Piechu wrote: maybe it's not a big thing, but for me name for "gyro weaving clipper" is wrong.

NEVER SAY "for me this means ---" WHEN IT'S ABOUT JOB'S NOTATION!!
If you don't understand what the term means, don't discuss about it.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 28 Sep 2005 05:42

As far as I'm concerned spinning is a set just like pixie, fairy, stepping, etc... When you spin, there are ss and far components you can hit. For example, spinning clipper is spinning far clipper and "gyro clipper" (a term that has caught on so I will just use it, as hypocritical as that is) is a spinning near clipper. Thus, since ducks and weaveing are far and near respectively, a spinning ducking clipper would end on the same foot as a spinning clipper, and a spinning weaving clipper would end on the same foot as a gyro clipper. Using gyro diving or weaving is incorrect -- there's no ss muted dex! I know people get in an uproar over this one, but gyro I believe is a very legit term in its own right. A cleanly executed gyro move is very different in execution from other spinning moves due to the lack of plant. And just for iteration... The degree you spin between 180º and 360º does NOT MAKE IT A DIFFERENT CONCEPT. I really think "gyro clipper" should be spinning ss clipper, but oh well.

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 28 Sep 2005 08:44

Nagasake wrote: Using gyro diving or weaving is incorrect -- there's no ss muted dex! I know people get in an uproar over this one, but gyro I believe is a very legit term in its own right. A cleanly executed gyro move is very different in execution from other spinning moves due to the lack of plant. And just for iteration... The degree you spin between 180º and 360º does NOT MAKE IT A DIFFERENT CONCEPT. I really think "gyro clipper" should be spinning ss clipper, but oh well.

Gyro as something other than spinning ss is silly.

They should be "Gyro Diving", "Gyro Weaving", "Spinning Ducking", and "Spinning Zulu". Yes, there is redundancy within those names, but it only makes things clearer: a spinning ducking clipper is just a spinning clipper with a duck, etc.

Piechu · Post by **Piechu** » 28 Sep 2005 10:51

ana_ali wrote:Gyro Ducking is actually Spinning Weaving.

Piechu wrote: maybe it's not a big thing, but for me name for "gyro weaving clipper" is wrong.
NEVER SAY "for me this means ---" WHEN IT'S ABOUT JOB'S NOTATION!!
If you don't understand what the term means, don't discuss about it.

and who are You to tell who can discus about some topics and who can't??
and who say that i don;t understand term means? i was always thinking that, what i say. so it's simple mistake from me. sorry for that my great Ansi!!

please don;t think that You are better than others.

for me gyro weaving isn't clear term because from footbag.org :
GYRO: CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (same dex component)

so Ansi, if You are soo good in this topic, tell me, where You see dex in gyro weaving cliper?

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 28 Sep 2005 13:36

Well here is my opinion:
Steve Goldberg is a super nice guy, but what governs the sport is the majority of players, not a website. Footbag.org is outdated.

Peeking is not double spinning anything, it is a peek it's like gyro, but you only spot the bag and then end on the same side you began on (which is why there is confusion between peeking osis and gyro osis (using the modern definition of "gyro") -- because the osis ends on the same side regardless.

Double peeking (sonic) is hardly a double spin, either -- it is a double peek -- a double spot. Argueably double peeking is similar to "double gyro", especially when concerning an osis move, since peking must involve some manner of spin to be "clean", it would be hard to consider it a double spin, though...maybe a double half spin (ie: double gyro...), or one-and-a-half...

I don't think spinning is something anybody should get mad over and go fighting with other great footbaggers about -- spinning is the funnest part about footbag, so let's just spin and be happy.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 28 Sep 2005 14:20

From Flipsider.com...

" • Sonic : from Clipper, back-spin, spot the bag, then back-spin the other way into a Far component. Called Peeking when set to a Near component."

... which claims to have the most accurate and well-explained concept list. Now I don't really give that a lot of credibility, except that it came from the website of someone who has been in the game for a long time and is still playing at a professional level. Erik, you also play at a professional level, so I respect each of your opinions equally on the matter. Spinning is definitely the best part about footbag, and I'd rather spin than discuss it -- but that doesn't mean the truth of the matter doesn't nag at me a little. Where's your info coming? And to keep this topic light-hearted... what's your favorite spinning move?

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 28 Sep 2005 14:23

Yeah,

Peeking is to Sonic as Gyro is to Spinning

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 28 Sep 2005 22:13

See, things like that...Peeking in my opinion is "Gyro gyro". Sonic would be "Gyro Spinning".

Double spinning (pdx) mirage = like spinning (pdx) mirage, but with two spins.

Double Gyro Mirage = "peeking mirage" (gyro gyro. see above.)

Spinning Gyro Mirage = Like Gyro Mirage, but with an extra spin. Make sense? (or even gyro in-gyro mirage. ahaha)

I just realised that I'm not sure this has any relation to the dicussion.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 28 Sep 2005 22:22

[EDIT:]I was flaming back at Piechu, but nevermind.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 28 Sep 2005 23:28

Kevin Regamey makes it make sense.
I'm confused a bit about sonic, though. Wouldn't sonic be gyro-gyro-gyro? Like a double spotting gyro, or double peeking gyro, or...double gyro gyro.

Spinning gyro (wrecking) makes me understand Jochen's confusion in the beginning, because ducking and diving can come before a spin (ducking spinning clipper, as opposed to spinning ducking -- two completely different moves).

Spinning ducking clipper could be seen as an alpine double gyro (same-direction) clipper, since it is like a gyro duck (weave), followed by a same-direction gyro clipper (or far clipper, which requires half a spin).

Right?

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 29 Sep 2005 08:30

Erik Chan wrote:Kevin Regamey makes it make sense.
I'm confused a bit about sonic, though. Wouldn't sonic be gyro-gyro-gyro? Like a double spotting gyro, or double peeking gyro, or...double gyro gyro.

Spinning gyro (wrecking) makes me understand Jochen's confusion in the beginning, because ducking and diving can come before a spin (ducking spinning clipper, as opposed to spinning ducking -- two completely different moves).

Spinning ducking clipper could be seen as an alpine double gyro (same-direction) clipper, since it is like a gyro duck (weave), followed by a same-direction gyro clipper (or far clipper, which requires half a spin).

Right?

Erik, you've got to get the half spin nonsense out of your head.

It doesn't have any bearing on what type of spin it is. Spinning ducking clipper is spinning ducking clipper. If it's alpine anything it's alpine spinning clipper! You're getting technique mixed up with what the move actually is. In a spinning ducking clipper the only reason a far clipper would require a "half-spin" is because of where you set the bag. If you set the bag straight up instead of with an angled trajectory you are of course going to have to compensate by chasing after you duck a bit. However, if you watch a ton of people execute their spinning ducking/diving/weaving/zulu/whatever you'll notice that they spin close to only 180 degrees throughout the move. A great example of this is on Alex Strassman's Finnsta video where Felix does consecutive spinning ducking clipper. Every component of the trick is completely articulated and the spin is close to 180 degrees. Regardless, the degrees -does not matter in determining what a spin move is-.

I think the best way of breaking peeking and sonic down conceptually is the following. Consider a set followed by a backspin. The bag is set, then you turn your back so the bag goes -behind- it. In peeking, you do this twice. From clipper, set the bag, backspin once, spot. From here, to backspin AGAIN you need to spin the opposite direction. Once you backspin again you will either execute a near or far component, thus determining sonic or peeking.

Peace,

mc · Post by mc » 29 Sep 2005 08:41

I think Anssi and Piechu should have a shred-off to see who's right!

Now that would be PHAT! I bet anger and hatred can fuel some awesome strings

just kidding