Ask Jorden *Updated 10.28.05!* (whirl, gyro symp, torque)
Moderator: Muffinman
No offence to Jorden, because I once played touch football with a guy named Jorden Muir and Jorden's Moir's name reminds me of him, but wouldn't it be better if people created topics about the specific thing they wanted help for - and then Jorden read those topics and gave tips. That way people in the future looking for the same tips would find them much easier to find - it would just be a matter of them posting about it and then somebody giving them a link and calling them a n00b for not searching - while as it is with this topic, I'd feel bad about calling them a n00b because it's harder to find tips when the topic name isn't the move you want the tip for. Also other people with tips on the move might feel more encouraged to post tips because they won't feel like the topic is exclusively for tips from a particular person.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Sorry for the wait.
Slicing set
Alrighty. This one's pretty much all about leg speed and the position of your feet. You have to modify your clipper stall to get the bag through cleanly. First off, set your clipper foot further back when you stall. You can also turn your shoulders away from the clipper foot for the same effect. Keep the clipper lower and closer to your body than usual. The second key thing is having your support foot and clipper foot very close together (ie. insides of both calves touching each other). Have your support foot facing forward instead of inward. Bend both knees slightly outwards during the stall. Because your clipper foot is further back in your stance, it will likely no longer be flat. That's ok. You WANT it to be slanting downwards a bit.
From the stall, carry your clip in a backwards diagonal path (you know, the common way people do spin sets nowadays
). Now the tricky part: simultaneously as you start moving the clip upwards behind you, straighten the support leg and push off your toes. When in the air, quickly heel yourself in the opposite ass cheek (not literally, but that's the motion you use). This is the first half of the slicing dex. The second half mainly involves your hips. Give you hips a good twist to clear the dexterity, and to get your shoulders facing the bag squarely. Plant with your original clipper foot first and swing your dexing leg back in front of you. Now bust something HUGE! 
Watch Fierce Session for a really solid slo-mo slicing (splicing?) set at 5:53. Good luck! Please let me know if the tips helped.
Flail
Read and practise the 'illusion stretch' in Grifter tips earlier in this thread first. You want your illusions to be very 'high' (ie dexing at waist level rather than knee level) and very horizontal, dexing far to close rather than side to side. I have a few pointers that might help for the symposium aspect:
- always push off your illusion leg with the ball of your foot
- to get used to leaving the ground and landing on the same foot, practise flails uptime (symp leggy atomic toe). this will also allow you to see how cleanly you are dexing with less worry about a troublesome landing.
- to get used to doing the symposium downtime, symple legovers may be good practise
- when jumping for the flail, try moving your toe stall leg to the side to allow for a lot of dexing room and no leg collisions.
- practise FLAIL!
the more you try it and figure out the proper form, the more natural and less dangerous the motion will become
Foe (aka flying toe delay)
This one's all about timing and bending/straightening your legs. Ok since most of your are righteys, I'll describe it using a right foot stall.
The steps:
1) Set the bag around head height and a slight distance in front of you(doesn't matter how you set )
2) Swing the right leg forwards, keeping the knee straight (now you have upwards momentum)
4) When the right foot is about 6 inches off the ground, bend the right knee, bring it towards your chest
5) lean back slightly
6) when the bag is around waist height, push off the ball of your support (left) leg
Now is where (what I call) the 'piston effect' occurs. In this case the pistons are your legs. When one knee is bent, the other knee is straight, and vice versa. Right now you are airborne, right knee bent near your chest and left knee straight.
7) Now the stall. As the bag descends past your waist, position your right foot under it and begin to straighten your right foot. This is what cushions the bag in mid-air. Simultaneously, the left leg (the one that pushed off) bends toward your chest.
At the height of your jump, your right foot should be straight (with the bag stalled on the foot) and the left leg bent.
9) Now the reverse happens. Release the bag from the right leg before you land back on the left foot. You do so by bending the right leg again. Your left leg will straighten naturally becuase of the landing.
I'll post a 'foe' video really soon on this thread so you can make sense of all this.
Practise, practise, practise,
Jorden
P.S. Sorry Burma. Only 1 each
P.P.S Anssi, you're dreaming.
Slicing set
Alrighty. This one's pretty much all about leg speed and the position of your feet. You have to modify your clipper stall to get the bag through cleanly. First off, set your clipper foot further back when you stall. You can also turn your shoulders away from the clipper foot for the same effect. Keep the clipper lower and closer to your body than usual. The second key thing is having your support foot and clipper foot very close together (ie. insides of both calves touching each other). Have your support foot facing forward instead of inward. Bend both knees slightly outwards during the stall. Because your clipper foot is further back in your stance, it will likely no longer be flat. That's ok. You WANT it to be slanting downwards a bit.
From the stall, carry your clip in a backwards diagonal path (you know, the common way people do spin sets nowadays
). Now the tricky part: simultaneously as you start moving the clip upwards behind you, straighten the support leg and push off your toes. When in the air, quickly heel yourself in the opposite ass cheek (not literally, but that's the motion you use). This is the first half of the slicing dex. The second half mainly involves your hips. Give you hips a good twist to clear the dexterity, and to get your shoulders facing the bag squarely. Plant with your original clipper foot first and swing your dexing leg back in front of you. Now bust something HUGE! Watch Fierce Session for a really solid slo-mo slicing (splicing?) set at 5:53. Good luck! Please let me know if the tips helped.
Flail
Read and practise the 'illusion stretch' in Grifter tips earlier in this thread first. You want your illusions to be very 'high' (ie dexing at waist level rather than knee level) and very horizontal, dexing far to close rather than side to side. I have a few pointers that might help for the symposium aspect:
- always push off your illusion leg with the ball of your foot
- to get used to leaving the ground and landing on the same foot, practise flails uptime (symp leggy atomic toe). this will also allow you to see how cleanly you are dexing with less worry about a troublesome landing.
- to get used to doing the symposium downtime, symple legovers may be good practise
- when jumping for the flail, try moving your toe stall leg to the side to allow for a lot of dexing room and no leg collisions.
- practise FLAIL!
the more you try it and figure out the proper form, the more natural and less dangerous the motion will becomeFoe (aka flying toe delay)
This one's all about timing and bending/straightening your legs. Ok since most of your are righteys, I'll describe it using a right foot stall.
The steps:
1) Set the bag around head height and a slight distance in front of you(doesn't matter how you set
)2) Swing the right leg forwards, keeping the knee straight (now you have upwards momentum)
4) When the right foot is about 6 inches off the ground, bend the right knee, bring it towards your chest
5) lean back slightly
6) when the bag is around waist height, push off the ball of your support (left) leg
Now is where (what I call) the 'piston effect' occurs. In this case the pistons are your legs. When one knee is bent, the other knee is straight, and vice versa. Right now you are airborne, right knee bent near your chest and left knee straight.
7) Now the stall. As the bag descends past your waist, position your right foot under it and begin to straighten your right foot. This is what cushions the bag in mid-air. Simultaneously, the left leg (the one that pushed off) bends toward your chest.
At the height of your jump, your right foot should be straight (with the bag stalled on the foot) and the left leg bent.9) Now the reverse happens. Release the bag from the right leg before you land back on the left foot. You do so by bending the right leg again. Your left leg will straighten naturally becuase of the landing.
I'll post a 'foe' video really soon on this thread so you can make sense of all this.
Practise, practise, practise,
Jorden
P.S. Sorry Burma. Only 1 each
P.P.S Anssi, you're dreaming.
Jorden Moir
That is absolutely true.BalinorNZ wrote:Hey Jord, thanks for that excellent advice on Surging! It seems your very good at visualizing a move and picking apart what needs to be done to achieve it.
That was the thing that surprised me the most when i met him.
Thanks for the tips Jorden ( both here and at the DFC ) i'll ask you of something noobly when i can think of something.
Ok, there's a lot of stuff to cover this time. Here goes:
Whirl
Whirl. One of the most useful concepts in guiltless shred imo. Think of the dex as a complete circle, starting and ending in the exact same position. From clipper, set between knee and waist height. Keep your shoulders square to the bag. Set straight up (no arc) and push off the ball of the dexing foot. Immediately plant the clipper leg, lift the dexing knee so the lower leg is near parallel with the ground. Resist the temptation to bring the dexing knee in towards your chest. That's BAD. Pretend your knee is a pivoting point. With the dexing knee pointed sideways at about waist level, simply 'heel yourself in the ass' using an up-down circular motion. I find it helps to point the toes as the leg pass over the bag. When the dex clears, swing the leg back under the bag and back to its starting point. When you practise whirl, keep one foot touching the ground at all times. That's gonna mean two quick switches of the feet. Remember, whirl is one quick circular motion. Good luck!
Gyro symposium
For the sake of simplicity, I'll describe GS mirage. Of course, learn gyro first before going for this one. What makes GS different is that the half spin ends standing on one foot, causing balance to be more of a factor. Ideally, you want to have the set travel straight up and your upper body to be positioned completely upright (no leaning) after the spin.
From clipper, turn your shoulders slightly away from the bag (you are facing forward, bag is stalled to the side of you) and bent the support knee. Pull the clipper slightly behind you (how everyone does spin sets nowadays) and in close to your body. When the bag leaves the foot, it should just barely be in sight. Set close to you and straight upwards (roughly chest height). Once the bag is in flight, push off the support foot, twist the hips and rotate the shoulders 180 degrees. Turn the clipper foot 180 degrees as well, planting it where the bag was set from. The support foot is now in the air. From there, if you're well balanced, go for the symp mirage. The bag should be at your opposite side from where it began (and close to your body!). Lift the dexing heel up, push off the ball of the foot, lean over the bag, dex and delay. For tricks like big apple, you'll have to push off the dexing foot harder, bring the knee closer to your chest and twist your hips more. It's hard.
Torque
I should do osis first, but oh well.
From clipper, turn your shoulders away from the bag and set roughly stomach height. Set close to your body and straight upwards (notice a common theme? ) Switch the feet as soon as the bag is airborne. Bring the dexing knee towards your chest and push off the support leg. Now that you're all wound up, the torquing begins. Keeping the dexing knee up high, twist the hips toward the bag. The shoulders should turn simultaneously with the hips. Just as the dexing leg is almost over the bag, EXPLODE -- untorque the dex leg really quick by swinging it horizontally, passing over the bag and beyond. Plant the dexing foot so it's pointing 180 degrees from its original position. This excess turn will line you up so the bag is falling with the osis foot poised and ready beneath it. Time it so when the dexing foot lands, you stall the bag. Turn the shoulders and hips again to complete the osis.
Sole delay
Finally, one that's a bit easier to explain.
The simplest way to do a sole delay is to start it from the same toe delay.
Stretch the stalled bag further in front of you than usual. Lean back slightly. Send the bag straight up by curling the toes, bringing the knee up and keeping the foot parallel to the ground. Set the bag rib height or so. Now that it's airborne about an arm's length in front of you, turn the support leg 180 degrees (toes facing opposite direction). While doing so, keep the stalling foot directly below the bag. The half turn will force the foot to turn upside down -- which is what you want. Point the stalling knee towards the ground and point the toes on the stalling foot to get the sole surface flat and parallel to the ground. As the bag descends, bend the support knee to cushion the stall. To 'escape' from the sole delay, restraighten the support leg to give the bag some air, then turn the support foot back forwards again. Basically, do the reverse of what you just did.
Unfortunately, I don't have a very good shooting set and certainly not a clean shooting ducking. For this reason I won't try to give tips. Sorry Anssi. Same with dominatrix -- there are a handful of people that are better suited to give tips on this one.
Stay tuned for the next installment. Osis, superfly & dada curve coming soon!
Whirl
Whirl. One of the most useful concepts in guiltless shred imo. Think of the dex as a complete circle, starting and ending in the exact same position. From clipper, set between knee and waist height. Keep your shoulders square to the bag. Set straight up (no arc) and push off the ball of the dexing foot. Immediately plant the clipper leg, lift the dexing knee so the lower leg is near parallel with the ground. Resist the temptation to bring the dexing knee in towards your chest. That's BAD. Pretend your knee is a pivoting point. With the dexing knee pointed sideways at about waist level, simply 'heel yourself in the ass' using an up-down circular motion. I find it helps to point the toes as the leg pass over the bag. When the dex clears, swing the leg back under the bag and back to its starting point. When you practise whirl, keep one foot touching the ground at all times. That's gonna mean two quick switches of the feet. Remember, whirl is one quick circular motion. Good luck!
Gyro symposium
For the sake of simplicity, I'll describe GS mirage. Of course, learn gyro first before going for this one. What makes GS different is that the half spin ends standing on one foot, causing balance to be more of a factor. Ideally, you want to have the set travel straight up and your upper body to be positioned completely upright (no leaning) after the spin.
From clipper, turn your shoulders slightly away from the bag (you are facing forward, bag is stalled to the side of you) and bent the support knee. Pull the clipper slightly behind you (how everyone does spin sets nowadays) and in close to your body. When the bag leaves the foot, it should just barely be in sight. Set close to you and straight upwards (roughly chest height). Once the bag is in flight, push off the support foot, twist the hips and rotate the shoulders 180 degrees. Turn the clipper foot 180 degrees as well, planting it where the bag was set from. The support foot is now in the air. From there, if you're well balanced, go for the symp mirage. The bag should be at your opposite side from where it began (and close to your body!). Lift the dexing heel up, push off the ball of the foot, lean over the bag, dex and delay. For tricks like big apple, you'll have to push off the dexing foot harder, bring the knee closer to your chest and twist your hips more. It's hard.
Torque
I should do osis first, but oh well.
From clipper, turn your shoulders away from the bag and set roughly stomach height. Set close to your body and straight upwards (notice a common theme?
) Switch the feet as soon as the bag is airborne. Bring the dexing knee towards your chest and push off the support leg. Now that you're all wound up, the torquing begins. Keeping the dexing knee up high, twist the hips toward the bag. The shoulders should turn simultaneously with the hips. Just as the dexing leg is almost over the bag, EXPLODE -- untorque the dex leg really quick by swinging it horizontally, passing over the bag and beyond. Plant the dexing foot so it's pointing 180 degrees from its original position. This excess turn will line you up so the bag is falling with the osis foot poised and ready beneath it. Time it so when the dexing foot lands, you stall the bag. Turn the shoulders and hips again to complete the osis.Sole delay
Finally, one that's a bit easier to explain.
The simplest way to do a sole delay is to start it from the same toe delay.
Stretch the stalled bag further in front of you than usual. Lean back slightly. Send the bag straight up by curling the toes, bringing the knee up and keeping the foot parallel to the ground. Set the bag rib height or so. Now that it's airborne about an arm's length in front of you, turn the support leg 180 degrees (toes facing opposite direction). While doing so, keep the stalling foot directly below the bag. The half turn will force the foot to turn upside down -- which is what you want. Point the stalling knee towards the ground and point the toes on the stalling foot to get the sole surface flat and parallel to the ground. As the bag descends, bend the support knee to cushion the stall. To 'escape' from the sole delay, restraighten the support leg to give the bag some air, then turn the support foot back forwards again. Basically, do the reverse of what you just did.
Unfortunately, I don't have a very good shooting set and certainly not a clean shooting ducking. For this reason I won't try to give tips. Sorry Anssi. Same with dominatrix -- there are a handful of people that are better suited to give tips on this one.
Stay tuned for the next installment. Osis, superfly & dada curve coming soon!
Jorden Moir
HELLLLLLLLOOOOOOO IN THERE!!!!!! :::cavernous echo:::Jeremy wrote:No offence to Jorden, because I once played touch football with a guy named Jorden Muir and Jorden's Moir's name reminds me of him, but wouldn't it be better if people created topics about the specific thing they wanted help for - and then Jorden read those topics and gave tips. That way people in the future looking for the same tips would find them much easier to find - it would just be a matter of them posting about it and then somebody giving them a link and calling them a n00b for not searching - while as it is with this topic, I'd feel bad about calling them a n00b because it's harder to find tips when the topic name isn't the move you want the tip for. Also other people with tips on the move might feel more encouraged to post tips because they won't feel like the topic is exclusively for tips from a particular person.
Just a thought.
anyone reading this?
BRICK!
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
Mega props on ignoring the haters . This is a good thread, and I'll have a question for you when I'm back on my feet.
. This is a good thread, and I'll have a question for you when I'm back on my feet.Colin Kennedy
[email protected]
[email protected]