Cod & Wiktor - 17.05.09
Yeah - look as I said - if you're comfortable with your game how it is - don't change it. But if you want to develope as a great footbag player - you need strong variety. I pretty much haven't schooled any shuffle since this year because I thought my game was lacking in the non shuffle area. You look at all the top players in the world and it is their variety and consistancy that makes them good - anybody can hit a really big move or combo. Hitting lots of different big moves and combos is where the skill comes in.
First of all, sorry for hijacking this thread, Cod 
but I'll post just one more thing.
I entertained myself with some maths. I counted the clipper to clipper, toe to toe, and toe/clip + clip/toe tricks from some pretty much random runs from some completely random recent videos.
Here are the figures:
From 'yksi'
-23 trick run by Honza
CLIP to CLIP: 12
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 7
TOE to TOE: 4
-31 trick run by Jorden
CLIP to CLIP: 19
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 11
TOE to TOE: 1
-18 trick run by Felix
CLIP to CLIP: 18
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 0
TOE to TOE: 0
From 'suomisummer'
-13 trick run by Honza
CLIP to CLIP: 11
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 2
TOE to TOE: 0
-22 trick run by Vasek
CLIP to CLIP: 21
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 1
TOE to TOE: 0
-17 trick run by Ken
CLIP to CLIP: 6
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 9
TOE to TOE: 2
-21 trick run by Scott
CLIP to CLIP: 9
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 11
TOE to TOE: 1
I think it is clear that in most runs there is a big difference between the number of CLIP/CLIP and TOE/TOE tricks (and few people care about it). Of course, these runs are not representative of these people's game. All these guys can toe. Vasek does an all toe run of 20 tricks towards the end of one of these videos.
Neither is a 3 minute video of Cod - who was deliberately shunning clipper tricks - representative of Cod's game.
but I'll post just one more thing.That's a good idea!Jeremy wrote:Why don't you back that up with some evidence...Wim wrote:It strikes me that people will hardly ever point out that someone plays only on his/her clippers (ie. does few or no toe tricks).
I entertained myself with some maths. I counted the clipper to clipper, toe to toe, and toe/clip + clip/toe tricks from some pretty much random runs from some completely random recent videos.
Here are the figures:
From 'yksi'
-23 trick run by Honza
CLIP to CLIP: 12
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 7
TOE to TOE: 4
-31 trick run by Jorden
CLIP to CLIP: 19
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 11
TOE to TOE: 1
-18 trick run by Felix
CLIP to CLIP: 18
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 0
TOE to TOE: 0
From 'suomisummer'
-13 trick run by Honza
CLIP to CLIP: 11
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 2
TOE to TOE: 0
-22 trick run by Vasek
CLIP to CLIP: 21
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 1
TOE to TOE: 0
-17 trick run by Ken
CLIP to CLIP: 6
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 9
TOE to TOE: 2
-21 trick run by Scott
CLIP to CLIP: 9
CLIP/TOE+TOE/CLIP: 11
TOE to TOE: 1
I think it is clear that in most runs there is a big difference between the number of CLIP/CLIP and TOE/TOE tricks (and few people care about it). Of course, these runs are not representative of these people's game. All these guys can toe. Vasek does an all toe run of 20 tricks towards the end of one of these videos.
Neither is a 3 minute video of Cod - who was deliberately shunning clipper tricks - representative of Cod's game.
You are right. My comment probably needed a nuance or twoSplint wrote:Scott Davidson has been criticized hard over the years (especially in his tripless bid) because he has had virtually no toe game for years. He answered that criticism by incorporating more toe moves and became one of the best in the World.
Toe tricks have become huge in the past few years, pretty much since Sunil came on the scene. On the FLipside, at one point Sunil was criticized greatly for being too much of a toe player without enough spins, ducks, clippers or even osis moves.
Yeah - you've demonstrated the point very well when you say:
I can hit 30 guiltless using just my toes and I can hit 30 guiltless using just my clippers. Sometimes I'll try and do one or the other, or some different combination of those. If you filmed one of my sessions I am sure that I'd do at least one run that only involved clipper moves and at least one run that only involved toe moves. What people are saying in this is perhaps it would be good for Cod's game - and for all the other "toe guiltless" players out there if they balanced their game up a bit - it would certainly be good for there results in competions and for putting videos on the internet. But if they're happy with having a very weak part to their game that's fine - don't change a thing.All these guys can toe. Vasek does an all toe run of 20 tricks towards the end of one of these videos.
You know what would be really interesting? Taking a few recent Shred30s from some of the top players in the world and doing what wim just did.
I would bet my ass that you would get VERY clipper oriented runs. Clipper is double the adds of toe and for these players is about as easy, simple as that!
Ofcourse this is relating to competition results and not having generally good diverse looking strings...
I would bet my ass that you would get VERY clipper oriented runs. Clipper is double the adds of toe and for these players is about as easy, simple as that!
Ofcourse this is relating to competition results and not having generally good diverse looking strings...
Yeah. I'd like to bitch one more time though
I counted Cod's TOE/CLIP ratio in this vid:
TOE/TOE: 60
CLIP/TOE + TOE/CLIP: 8
CLIP/CLIP: 0
Yep, a pretty unbalanced TOE versus CLIP ratio. What I was trying to say earlier though is that I think less people would have noticed the unbalance if the ratios were reversed (CLIP: 60, TOECLIP: 8, TOE: 0). In fact, this is the kind of ratio that you find in some runs I transcribed earlier.
I think many people systematically favour CLIP tricks over TOE tricks (<-- this is my main point). Jeremy, I'm not saying you do too. I agree that a varied game is preferable over just toe or clipper play. An unbalanced toe/clip ratio is just a thing you notice in many players (in me too!).
I'm not judging anyone either, I'm just trying to explain what I noticed.
Again sorry for hijacking
I counted Cod's TOE/CLIP ratio in this vid:
TOE/TOE: 60
CLIP/TOE + TOE/CLIP: 8
CLIP/CLIP: 0
Yep, a pretty unbalanced TOE versus CLIP ratio. What I was trying to say earlier though is that I think less people would have noticed the unbalance if the ratios were reversed (CLIP: 60, TOECLIP: 8, TOE: 0). In fact, this is the kind of ratio that you find in some runs I transcribed earlier.
I think many people systematically favour CLIP tricks over TOE tricks (<-- this is my main point). Jeremy, I'm not saying you do too. I agree that a varied game is preferable over just toe or clipper play. An unbalanced toe/clip ratio is just a thing you notice in many players (in me too!).
I'm not judging anyone either, I'm just trying to explain what I noticed.
Again sorry for hijacking
