Fearless: less paradox, less whirl

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 16 Oct 2005 16:43

I was at work today kind of air-shredding, as much as you can at a front counter without looking ridiculous. And I thought of how cool a fearless combo with only ripwalk-esque moves would be!

I thought of a so-sweet, unique drill: riptide > bigwalk > ripped warrior > janiwalker [repeat?]

Nobody does enough of these kinds of fearless combos. It's usually a few unique moves and then ps whirling filler.

What are some other sweet uncommon fearless combos you can think of? Maybe someone great can try to hit them!! (Like Jorden Moir who can do anything...) Oh -- only one rule; xdex doesn't count (because it doesn't...)

SlashC · Post by **SlashC** » 16 Oct 2005 17:02

backside assasin > phoenix > alpine blur > phoenix > alpine blur > legbeater swirl > spinning ducking butterfly > matador > pdx torque > fog > tobius

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 16 Oct 2005 17:22

There was a similar topic a while ago, and Nick stepped up and hit some funky fresh links.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 16 Oct 2005 19:46

Oooo -- pdx torque > fog is sick!
I can totally feel the spinning ducking out of legbeater swirl (sweet!)
And good call on the Tobius!

Could you link to the other thread? I don't remember seeing it.

Cod · Post by **Cod** » 16 Oct 2005 21:09

I don't understand why you don't count xdexes... I think adding some Toe 2 Toe 5s like Merlin, Rasmus, Conniption City, Dominatrix to a cool Clipper run will be awesome! For example:

Dominatrix > Legbeater Swirl > Alpine Blur > Rasmus > Conniption City > Phoenix > Fog > Merlin > Dimmiest > Spinning Ducking Butterfly...

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 17 Oct 2005 02:46

toe fearless!

I've been wanting to hit Alpha Atom Smasher > Alpha Atom Smasher > Predator. If I hit it, I could probably throw a dominatrix or atomic flail in there afterwards.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 17 Oct 2005 05:00

Yeah, I started a thread a while back challenging people to hit fearless combos that don't have pdx whirling components. Paradox whirl isn't really a 4, which explains why most people can only hit beasts which include pdx whirl components, and so few people can do 5+ fearless which is pdx-whirl free.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 17 Oct 2005 06:40

It's kinda lame to take leave a component out of some level-of-play category. It's like "Yay! Let's play Genuine without Drifters!"

How about Spinning Ducking Butterfly versus Spinning Ducking Whirl?
IMO The first trick is one of the lamest fives there is and I don't give much respect for fearless combos involving that, but I really think that Maelstrom is hard enough to be used in beastly game and to be six adds.

Why do some people think that Whirls are too cheap for paradox? My only explanation would be that it's easier to spin or step out of Whirl than for example double down. And controlling Whirls in general is easier than double down for many people. (n00bs

)
I see the trick pretty much as Reverse Double Down and hard enough to be treated as paradox-worthy.

Although this post is useless because nobody never changes their opinions about adds on this forum I got to write some english after a few days brake at least...

Oh well, I'm gonna smack my testicles against the wall now, who wants to join me?

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 17 Oct 2005 06:47

ana_ali wrote:
Why do some people think that Whirls are too cheap for paradox? ?

I never said they were too "cheap" for paradox. I've stated in other threads, that paradox whirl lacks the double hip pivot that all other paradox moves have, and therefore I don't think it contains a body add.

Saying "lets play genuine without drifters" is completely different, because it lacks any rationale. Beasts that don't include pdx whirl components are undeniably rarer and harder than those that do. Same for fearless. Name 5 players off the top of your head who have hit 10 fearless. Now name 2 players off the top of your head who have hit 5 fearless without pdx whirl components. Name 5 players who have hit beast combos. Name 2 players who have hit a beast without any pdx whirl components. See a pattern? "Paradox" whirl lacks a double hip pivot, unlike pdx mirage, pdx drifter, pdx torque, etc. That's not an opinion, its a fact. That's what separates this discussion from random ideas like "genuine without drifters."

jon · Post by **jon** » 17 Oct 2005 07:45

C-Fan wrote: ... Paradox whirl lacks the double hip pivot that all other paradox moves have ...

There must be other moves that get a pdx add but dont have a double hip pivot. I think matador for example can be hit without a double pivot. It gets a pdx add though. I think that a pdx whirl could be down with a defined double hip pivot but most players don't need to do that motion to complete the move. Should the add be removed because players can perform the same move but with less work? I can think of other moves that could be done with out double pivots, pdx drifter for example could probably be hit with out two pivots. If i saw two players hit pdx drifer but one didnt pivot twice I wouldnt then award that player less adds. Adds are dumb but its what footbag has at the moment. I dont forsee the community deciding to remove adds from tricks any time soon so in my mind its kind of an exercise in futility to hope anything will change regarding pdx whirling moves and imho I think they are fine for fearless.

p.s. I know some tricks are much easier for some people than others but it always bugs me when I see great players pick on moves that although may be easier for them are hard for other players. For example spinning ducking is hard for a lot of players and easier for others, that being said I think spinning ducking butter deserves respect. If a move is hit cleanly it deservers respect. There was a time in everyone's footbag career when some of the easier moves where very hard for them and I think saying trick a is too easy for 5 adds or trick b is too hard for 4 promotes a negativity towards certain concepts that might influence newer members of the sport. I think most people can agree, adds are flawed for determining difficulty but yet people still rank tricks' difficulty by adds in discussion such as these. I dont understand this, 5 adds and above is fearless in my books, and always will be even if that fearless string is paradox dadas curve > spinning ducking butter >ps whirl ... end rant ...

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 17 Oct 2005 08:33

I completely agree with Jon. How many fearless combos with pdx whirl and spinning ducking has Pinkus hit...? How many toe fearless combos has Juan Rangel hit?

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 17 Oct 2005 17:05

How about surge > pixie blender [repeat]

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 18 Oct 2005 01:54

jon wrote:[ I can think of other moves that could be done with out double pivots, pdx drifter for example could probably be hit with out two pivots.t ...

What are you talking about? There's no way to hit pdx drifter without a double hip pivot.

max · Post by **max** » 18 Oct 2005 02:01

What are you talking about? There's no way to hit pdx drifter without a double hip pivot.

just to play devil's advocate I'd say that you could probably set from a left foot clipper all the way to the left side of your body a bit in front of you and hit a drifter whilst jumping to your left a lot (not pivoting)... It *could* just work.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 18 Oct 2005 03:41

C-Fan wrote:
jon wrote:[ I can think of other moves that could be done with out double pivots, pdx drifter for example could probably be hit with out two pivots.t ...
What are you talking about? There's no way to hit pdx drifter without a double hip pivot.

If you will plant setting foot after the set you can hit almost every pdx move without double hip pivot ;]

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 19 Oct 2005 00:47

C-Fan wrote:
jon wrote:[ I can think of other moves that could be done with out double pivots, pdx drifter for example could probably be hit with out two pivots.t ...
What are you talking about? There's no way to hit pdx drifter without a double hip pivot.

Nuclear same clipper = pdx grifter without double hip pivot.
I'm not sure about the above post but I often double step during a pdx move (pdx mirage or pdx drifter) and I think it means you don't have to double hip pivot.

*edited*

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 19 Oct 2005 01:25

What? You really think that nuclear doesn't have double hip pivot? Did you ever hit nuclear? It has double hit pivot, which is actually quite strong... Especially in Nuclear Clipper.

BTW. Why do you think that Nuclear Clipper is Pdx Drifter? It's Crispy Pdx Grifter, if we have to consider it as "driftering" move.

And.. I cosider Pdx Whirl same hard, as Barfly, though it's much harder, for example to hit spanishfly or scorpion's tail, than Tomahawk or Spin. Pdx Whirl, and Superfly is harder than PS Whirl. But for example Blurry Whirl and Blurriest are the same difficulty.

But....

IT'S SO BORING TO SEE PDX WHIRLING MOVE > PDX WHIRLING MOVE > PDX WHIRLING MOVE ALL THE TIME.

And yeah. Fearless' or Beasts w/o Pdx whirls are so rare...

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 19 Oct 2005 01:33

ptaku wrote:And.. I cosider Pdx Whirl same hard, as Barfly, though it's much harder, for example to hit spanishfly or scorpion's tail, than Tomahawk or Spin. Pdx Whirl, and Superfly is harder than PS Whirl. But for example Blurry Whirl and Blurriest are the same difficulty.

But....

IT'S SO BORING TO SEE PDX WHIRLING MOVE > PDX WHIRLING MOVE > PDX WHIRLING MOVE ALL THE TIME.

And yeah. Fearless' or Beasts w/o Pdx whirls are so rare...

Nice post, it's interesting to find out how whirl and dod compare for other players

.

Also, sorry about my 'pdx drifter = nuke clipper' post, I wasn't thinking at all :s. And now that I do, your right, it does have double hip pivot, thats what I get for posting late at night after an exam

.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 19 Oct 2005 01:40

not with my nuke sets...

Anyway I think the point is just that pdx whirl moves are clearly the easiest 5s in freestyle. Of course there are exceptions but blurry whirl, ps whirl, spinning whirl and ducking whirl in particular are very easy relative to other fives. You could say that they are "bop" fives - ie "genuine fearless" would be going fearless without those moves (and maybe a few others).

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 19 Oct 2005 01:46

Jeremy wrote:not with my nuke sets...

Anyway I think the point is just that pdx whirl moves are clearly the easiest 5s in freestyle. Of course there are exceptions but blurry whirl, ps whirl, spinning whirl and ducking whirl in particular are very easy relative to other fives. You could say that they are "bop" fives - ie "genuine fearless" would be going fearless without those moves (and maybe a few others).

You know your right :O Apart from pdx dada curve... I can't think of any 5's that are easier than ps whirl or blurry whirl... maybe phoenix? But that requries quite a good pixie set, you don't need the best whirl or the highest step to hit blurry whirl.