Blind people and dreams

pips · Post by **pips** » 20 Oct 2005 13:05

I was just thinking this EARLY morning while I couldn't finish sleeping, and I started to wonder if blind people could dream or not. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that they probably do dream but either with just noises or how they perceive what things look like from their touching memory-kind of like we/ I do when I read a good book and can remember it like I've seen a movie about it, and I never did. What do you think or know?

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 20 Oct 2005 13:29

wow, really interesting concept.

They must dream.. but their images can't be based on things they've 'seen' recently or anything.. perhaps their dreams are in the same form as the way they 'see' things in their head normally.

you're so deep Chrissy.

SandWraith · Post by **SandWraith** » 20 Oct 2005 13:54

I remember learning in psychology that if a person has been blind from birth, then yes, they do dream only in sounds and smells and the other associated senses (or that the visual stimuli is just random colors and other nonsensical images, because they have no basis to interpret the ideas). However, if a person became blind, then they often do still have dreams with images. The reason is logical-- the visual cortex takes visual stimuli and tries to make sense out of it, matching the signal with objects you've 'seen'. If you've never 'seen' anything, then you cannot dream about it.

Bander87 · Post by **Bander87** » 20 Oct 2005 14:18

If your were born blind perhaps you could dream in images if you wanted to? You can feel shapes and such and get an idea of what they look like. Maybe you could dream of certain body parts like arms and hands that are easier to visualize because you use them all the time.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » 20 Oct 2005 19:46

I heard that when a person becomes blind, their brain actually rewires itself. The part in your brain that processes information from your eyes instead takes info from your hands instead. This way they can form images in their brain of what things look like by touching them. I may have explained this completly wrong, but my point is that i think that they probably do dream like non blind people, but maybe with a different perspective on what things look like?

SandWraith · Post by **SandWraith** » 20 Oct 2005 21:27

In response to Ben, that's spatial reasoning. They can infer what dimensions something has, but what about color? How do you explain 'purple' to someone that's never seen any colors? You really can't. So again, what they would imagine, I would think, would be more along the lines of descriptions from the other senses-- and touch is the basis on which spatial arrangement would be gained in that case.

In response to Toby, we discussed that in psychology, and that is the case. However, it's sort of when you remember what something tasted like, though you haven't tasted it in a long time. As I recall, it does depend to a good extent on the time that they were able to see. Someone that became blind at age 20 will not likely forget what an apple looks like, or many other common things, for example. With a person that became blind early on, however, I think your idea is a closer approximation.

Note that I don't know all the answers, but am simply reiterating what we were told in AP Psychology and what I have garnered through other classes. It's quite possible I'm wrong on some of this, but I think I'm right on more than I'm wrong.

kaos · Post by **kaos** » 20 Oct 2005 23:11

What are the dreams of the blind like? [straightdope.com]

Jdigges · Post by **Jdigges** » 21 Oct 2005 08:03

Hey, Zach was right. Its funny that you bring up this topic. i was talking about it a couple weeks ago with one of my friends, and our conclusions were pretty close to what was dicussed here.

Does anyone else feel pain in the dreams?

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 21 Oct 2005 10:30

Sometimes in my dreams I have a pain in my groin that's very similar with having to pee really bad. Then I wake up and have to pee really bad.

carl winslow · Post by **carl winslow** » 21 Oct 2005 11:22

its hard to talk to blind people they have no references
-curb your enthusiasm

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 21 Oct 2005 11:36

My dads blind....and he says that the only time he can see it's in his dreams. Hows that for a good source!!!

Mind you he wasn't blind from birth, so he remembers what it's like to see....

pips · Post by **pips** » 21 Oct 2005 18:49

Hmm...cool stuff. Thanks for bringing up color. I forgot all about that. I seemed to be pretty confident in my opinion, until now. Does black and white still exist? Like maybe someone could still make out a picture, but not in color or possibly not in the picture's actual color-just something that stands out and makes a picture compared to the background "color". I don't know...

Another interesting thing I liked was in that Daredevil movie with Ben Affleck. I was amused at how the movie portrayed a picture out of the sound waves he heard. And then not too long ago in my astronomy class, my teacher mentioned that there could be intelligent life out there that sees in radio waves instead of light waves (or something similar to that). Although I'd worry about that, because those waves go through some things and not through others, and you'd run into things.

Unless the effect is similar to clear things that we can still tell are there, but they don't really look like it.

Bander87 · Post by **Bander87** » 21 Oct 2005 20:37

Is it possible for someone blind to "see" color? I know they are blind, but if we visioners can imagine colors without seeing them, could blind people's mind spontaniously imagine color somehow? It would have to have something to relate to, but it still has the capacity to see color perhaps.

I think I remember seeing something on ABC a little more than a few years ago about hooking this thing up to blind people and by using a computer, the blind people could artifically see through sensors and stuff. After all, the brain is just electricity right?

Just some food for thought.

SandWraith · Post by **SandWraith** » 21 Oct 2005 21:50

Bander87 wrote:Is it possible for someone blind to "see" color? I know they are blind, but if we visioners can imagine colors without seeing them, could blind people's mind spontaniously imagine color somehow?

That idea reminds me of how most people grapple with the idea of 4 dimensional space (not including time). It's an interesting perspective to think of a person that had never seen color before trying to get a grip on it. I would think that they couldn't spontaneously imagine it, because even when we spontaneously do, it's usually triggered by some sort of associated stimulus. That's completely an opinion though, and I would be curious as to what others think on that.

As far as the wiring their brains up to see color, that definately has happened. In fact, scientists have actually wired people's brains up to digital cameras to allow them to see.

A quick google search turned up this article, and more information can be found here (though I'm sure a bit of spelunking would turn up much better sources).

HG · Post by HG » 22 Oct 2005 05:12

carl winslow wrote:its hard to talk to blind people they have no references
-curb your enthusiasm

Curb your enthusiasm is the best show.

That quote is the one where larry is in the producers and their rehearsal pianist is blind, and hes going out with this woman that told him she was a model, and she is the most hideous person ever!!!

have you ever seen a black man, who isnt muslim, wearing a bow tie?

Wanda Sykes:WHO THE FUCK ASKS THAT! Im not your gateway to the black community. Jackass

pips · Post by **pips** » 22 Oct 2005 08:12

Bander87 wrote:Is it possible for someone blind to "see" color?

I am having a hard time believing that blind people couldn't see color-like since I can see it and can understand it, it's hard to accept that possibly that is the truth. But from my not accepting the fact thing, I kind of have the idea that maybe they do see color (in their dreams), but they couldn't name it like our blue is this color, red, yellow...they could just distinguish them from one an another.

Those artificial vision experiments are pretty cool. I never knew there was anything like that. It is amazing what we can do these days...even almost 30 years ago (that's when Jerry started his vision experiment)!