Obscure Talent or Sport?

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 28 Oct 2005 17:27

I think it's clear from the poll results that we're pretty equally devided on the issue. Interesting viewpoints.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 28 Oct 2005 17:49

I don't know, I think we're united. I think everyone knows footbag is a sport, and wants it to become legitimized. The poll is basically saying 'do you think footbag is only a sport or not. Everyone knows it's also a leisure activity as well as a sport. To deny that fact is absurd. Golf is a sport, and also a leisure activity. People either pay money to do it, or get paid millions to do it, like Tiger Woods.

I think that a better way to spend forum discussion would be to discuss what we as individuals and as a community are willing to do to help legitimize footbag as a well-known and respected sport.

Even sharing ideas. It's not impossible. We just have to come up with ways to do like Jeremy says and get recognized by the IOC. We also have to do other things to make it happen. It'll probably take everyone that's into footbag to get involved and make it happen. What a great opportunity we have to utilize the technology we have to come up with these great ideas!

It's not even what we 'shouldn't do' to give footbag a bad name, it's all about what we 'should do' or what we 'can do' to make this into one of the coolest sports the world's ever seen.

Post by **Allan** » 28 Oct 2005 22:49

Jeremy wrote:Same reason why bap is completely counter productive to gaining the sport official recognition and actually promotes footbag as a non sport and should have remained a club of personal friends with the same opinion. I know people will disagree with me on that and you're entitled to your opinions. I hope you've researched what footbag needs to achieve to be officially recognised as a sport before expressing those opinions.

I'll disagree with you on that and I've done my research.

For me, footbag isn't about sport. It's not about talent. For me, this game, sport, whatever you want to call it -- it's all about the friendships. It's about the fun. And it's about respect; respect for the people whom we learn from; respect for the people who've push the limits in the past; and respect for the people who do more than just talk shit on forums.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 29 Oct 2005 01:56

So do you have less respect for people who aren't in bap?

And are you infering that all I do is talk shit on the forum? I've nearly finished one of the biggest promotion in footbag (in terms of player involvement) that has ever occured in the sport...

edit: And I have a second promotion of a smaller but still showcasing the sport to 100,000 people approx organised and confirmed later in the year...

jon · Post by **jon** » 29 Oct 2005 08:38

AllanHaggett wrote: ... And it's about respect; respect for the people whom we learn from; respect for the people who've push the limits in the past; and respect for the people who do more than just talk shit on forums.

Hey Allan, I would be interested to hear, in your opinion, how a player would gain that respect. A lot of new players, myself included, are not pushing the limits of the sport (either because lack of physical ability or effort put into practice), have not really taught anyone, and enjoy discussing life and footbag on these forums. How could a player such as myself and others gain this respect that you talk about?
I have to say that I believe respect should be earned and not simply given, however I do not see how respect is as important in footbag as fun and friendships.
I have respect for those in the community that work hard on their game even if they are not great, those that have to shred solo because no one around them plays, and those that seem more frustrated than happy with their game a lot of the time as long as they are playing to improve and better themselves. I guess I must be crazy.

Post by **Allan** » 29 Oct 2005 16:33

Jeremy wrote:So do you have less respect for people who aren't in bap?

<sigh> No, Jeremy. Please don't try so hard to misunderstand me and twist my words around.

It's great that you're doing lots of good promotional work and I wish you all the best and continued success with that.

I just think you'd be wise to stop dis'ing people you've never met and who have more than earned our respect. Try a little harder to understand that not everybody has the same view of what footbag is, where it should go and how it should get there.

It seems to me that you're going out of your way to disrepect anyone who's ever done anything in footbag other than talk shit on modified. Who do you respect? Because you sure aren't showing any respect for the people that invented footbag freestyle and you're definitely not showing any respect for IFPA board members.

Jon wrote:Hey Allan, I would be interested to hear, in your opinion, how a player would gain that respect.

A player can earn respect by not showing contempt for people and concepts they don't know/understand and by playing hard and being good, positive people. It's not about talent, it's about getting out there and doing more than just become an armchair authority of these forums.

Everyone deserves respect -- from the hacky slacker in the park to Steve Blough. BAP members aren't necessily worthy of more of your respect -- that's up to you -- but they don't deserve to be disrespected as being "bad for footbag".

I don't get it. All I was trying to say was that friendships, respect and action are good. Did I botch my post that badly that you guys feel a need to make it seem like I'm a complete asshole?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 29 Oct 2005 16:44

You responded to my post about what I thought about "bap" and even quoted it by saying that footbag is all about respect. It appeared to me and to a number of other people I've spoken with that you were trying to make some connection about bap and about respect. If that's not what you meant, I'm sure you could have worded it a lot better.

I'm not going to get into a flame war with you. From both your posts it seems like you just want to fight. You are entitled to your own opinions. I think your last post in this topic is completely negative and counterproductive as well as completely exaggerated.

I just think you'd be wise to stop dis'ing people you've never met and who have more than earned our respect.

A player can earn respect by not showing contempt for people and concepts they don't know

Did I botch my post that badly that you guys feel a need to make it seem like I'm a complete asshole?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 29 Oct 2005 16:58

Actually what particularly pisses me off about Allan's post is that he says I show no respect for the the IFPA board of directors - which he is on, yet the last time I had any correspondance with them was months ago.

Who can say what Allan's motives are for attacking me for something that has not been an issue in such a long time...

Post by **Allan** » 29 Oct 2005 17:56

<anothersigh> I'm just so tired of reading you (and others) disrespecting people you don't even know, have never even met and so clearly misunderstand. It makes me sad and confused and I just don't know what else to say. Have fun doing your thing.

Peace.

Sidi||TOFU · Post by **Sidi||TOFU** » 29 Oct 2005 19:24

Oh how terribly wrong my poll topic has gone haha not really I am just happy to see everyone is so passionate about footbag *group hug*....

Well there is only really one way to settle this......head to head shred 30 Jeremy v Allan....!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Oct 2005 01:14

AllanHaggett wrote:<anothersigh> I'm just so tired of reading you (and others) disrespecting people you don't even know, have never even met and so clearly misunderstand. It makes me sad and confused and I just don't know what else to say. Have fun doing your thing.

Peace.

I think everybody is tired of you being constantly negative and disrespective of the people who post on this forum. Considering most of your posts are just complaining about people here I don't understand why you bother.

As to your baseless lies about disrespecting the IFPA board members - I've read through all my emails to the board of directors and here are the last ones dated:

October 2

Dear directors,

Here is my proposal for a flat rate for Australians to join the IFPA

IFPA membership shall be a normal rate of $13 AUD.

For group memberships the following rates will apply
Rate A: 5 - 9 players: $12 AUD
Rate B 10 - 19 players: $11 AUD
Rate C 20 - 49 players: $9 AUD
Rate D 50+ players: $8 AUD.

All rates are based on the exchange rate of $1 USD = $1.31380 AUD and
are rounded to the nearest whole Australian dollar.

This flat rate shall be re-evaluated in one years time from the date
of approval.

Co-ordination in processing memberships will be the responsible of the
treasurer of the Ausfootbag National Council (currently Scott
Kirchner) and the relevant IFPA person.

Cheers,

--
Jeremy O'Wheel
+61 (0)404 621 893
Hobart Footbag Club
Australian Footbag National Council

Sep 22

Dear people,

I've sent about 5 emails about this in the past and never got a
response. In fact I had given up about it, but I realise with the
next aus champs being IFPA sanctioned, it would be in our best
interests to get a reply. For that reason I will send this email
every day until I do get a reply.

In Australia we would really appreciate it if we could have a set rate
for joining the IFPA rather than having to pay $10 us - which is an
amount that always changing. When I initially enquired about this we
wanted to combine membership of our organisation with the IFPA - so
that all aus footbag members would be IFPA members as well. Sadly you
didn't have the time or the energy to respond and that opportunity may
be lost. However I still believe it would be in your best interests
to agree to this. As it stands there are basically no benefits for an
Australian in joining the IFPA that they don't already get for joining
ausfootbag - we have organised our scene independently for years now.
However the global long term implications of joining could be
beneficial to the Australian scene. I still want to get as many
Australian's to join as possible and have the support of the national
council in this, purely because I want to support the IFPA and help
build it into a bigger stronger organisation. This is my only
motivation in asking for a flat rate. We do not want a discount - if
you decide to give us a flat rate of $15 Australian - which is
currently a few dollars more than what we'd have to pay - that is OK.
(I think $12 would be about accurate but I would need to check to be
sure).

Anyway clearly in my opinion this request is in the best interests of
the IFPA and I see no reason why you didn't respond to me the times
I've asked before, nor why you wouldn't respond now. Even if you
decide you won't give us a flat rate - at least letting me know be
polite - rather than just ignoring me.

Thank you for your time,

--
Jeremy O'Wheel
+61 (0)404 621 893
Hobart Footbag Club
Australian Footbag National Council

Aug23

I think that should be fine thanks Julie. They just wanted me to
confirm that it was ok with you - I guess the fear was that you might
take legal action if it wasn't ok or something like that (I'm just
speculating - I don't know the details). I considered just saying it
was ok since I was convinced it would be but figured it's not much
work to make sure .

If I do need something more official I'll let you know but it should be fine

Thanks a lot,

Aug 23

Hi,

All I mean is that in the box of cereal will be a little card or
pamphlet or something with a bunch of information about footbag which
will include the link - http://www.footbag.org.

Cheers,

Aug22

Hey this is a very quick message and I'm sorry for asking such a silly
question but I need a positive reply to this for it to go ahead. I'm
going to go ahead of with it anyway in the assumption that you'll say
yes but if I hear nothing we will be forced to cancel this. Basically
Nestle are doing a big campaign in Australia and I wanted to attach
http://www.footbag.org to that campaign but for legal reasons apparantly we
need official permission first. This needs to happen very soon - ie.
sometime this week.

If you have any questions let me know but I see no reason not to approve this.

Cheers,

Aug 18

Dear directors,

I'm not sure of the correct procedure for this so please bear with me
if I am doing this wrong. I have too suggestions that I really think
would be significant steps forward for footbag and the IFPA.

First a much better usage of the Internet forums - especially the
footbag.org forums. Basically instead of the discussion occurring via
email with the IFPA groups I think it would be much better and easier
if all this was transferred to the forums. However this needs to be
done right. I know the forums are used a tiny bit for IFPA stuff at
the moment but are fairly inactive in that regards. This is what I
suggest.

An IFPA members forum - with subforums for each committee. All IFPA
members will have access to all forums - even if they are not members
of the specific committee. Each sub forum would have a group
moderator who would be responsible for looking after the forum - in
particular they would make sure that posts stay on topic etc.

What this would mean: Currently a lot of people feel that the IFPA is
very secretive and inaccessible. I also feel that it's divided. A
number of times I've worked on things that other people are also
working on - if we knew we were both working on the same thing I'm
sure things would happen much faster. This change would bring about a
much greater unity and transparency within the IFPA - people would
work together much better and there would be greater cooperation
amongst committees. General members would also find it much easier to
see what needs doing - who to contact to help etc. and it would be
much easier for them to be involved and to bring about the progress
needed for our future development. There's obviously a lot of work
involved in setting this up. I know that Allan Haggett and Steve
Goldberg are in charge of running the forum but are fairly busy. If
they didn't have the time to do this, I would be more than happy to
give my time and to co-ordinate other volunteers to help out in
setting this up. Of course if particular discussions wanted to be
kept private email could still be used but having discussion on the
forum would be encouraged.

---

Suggestion number 2!

I'd like to see the setting up of a new IFPA committee being the
freestyle judging committee. Unlike the IFC this committee would not
be about writing rules but about training judges in the
interpretations of the rules and how to judge. Obviously the
currently used freestyle rules are not in the rule book but plenty of
different systems could be taught to prospective judges. Obviously
this would need the support of the experienced freestyle judges to
work but it would lead to a greater knowledge and experience of judges
and I'm sure that would have many benefits at tournaments. Again
although I'm not the most experienced or knowledgeable person in this
regard - if somebody needs to organise this I am happy to do that.

Thanks for your time,

So those are my last emails to the directors in the last 2 months. I can post the emails from before then too if you like. I think it's clear that Allan is full of shit when he says:

Allan Haggett wrote:you're definitely not showing any respect for IFPA board members.

I don't know why he's making up such baseless and malicious lies about my dealings with the board of directors but I wanted to make sure that everybody could see that what he's saying is false and I also wanted to say that I think making such personal attacks is very childish and I hope nobody else thinks that it's an appropriate action to take when somebody says something you disagree with or when you don't agree with them. If I have a personal problem with somebody I do not make up lies about them in order to defame them.

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 30 Oct 2005 03:42

Jeremy wrote:From both your posts it seems like you just want to fight.

<Pulls on the gumboots to wade into some serious shit>

I didn't see that as the case, Jeremy. And I think you're getting too defensive about it. I personally think a "Whatever" reply would have served you better than to post your IFPA emails.
If someone is going to attack you (and you've been there before), you should not have to defend yourself without proof from that individual.

I can't comment on what Allan has said because it was not directed toward me, but if there is a problem within the IFPA then here is not the place to air it.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 30 Oct 2005 08:44

I can't believe the IFPA disrespected you like that.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 30 Oct 2005 09:08

AllanHaggett wrote:
For me, footbag isn't about sport. It's not about talent. For me, this game, sport, whatever you want to call it -- it's all about the friendships. It's about the fun.

Word. I don't view footbag as a sport. I believe the competitions are lame. It's the shred circles and shredders at the events that make me go, not the competitions.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 30 Oct 2005 09:57

Allan, do you know and understand George Bush? Have you even MET him!? I'll assume not, but only an idiot (read: conservative) would believe that takes away your right to talk shit about him (and we all know you do).

The IFPA board is an elected governing body. As such, it's members are subject to criticism from the public. Furthermore, they should know this, and they should know better than to think the public is wrong for voicing this criticism.

Tsiangkun's post made me laugh pretty hard in a library.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 30 Oct 2005 10:05

Blackend wrote:
AllanHaggett wrote:
For me, footbag isn't about sport. It's not about talent. For me, this game, sport, whatever you want to call it -- it's all about the friendships. It's about the fun.
Word. I don't view footbag as a sport. I believe the competitions are lame. It's the shred circles and shredders at the events that make me go, not the competitions.

I prefer the other parts in the competition than the competiting itself, but I still consider footbag as a sport and understand that a sport status will take this further than circle kicking status. Friendships and having fun are really important to me, but still - the competitions make this public and there I can make friends I've never even heard of before.

No comments on the flame war --> "whatever"

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 30 Oct 2005 10:40

Watch out, Allen, Jeremy might ban you if you keep it up.

Just kidding, Jeremy.

Honestly, you two are acting like kids. Man up and go fight at the sandbox during recess so teacher can't see.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 30 Oct 2005 10:53

Don't listen to him!

I'm enjoying this, it's rare that there's a flame war somewhere else than Discussion subforum that I'm not involved too.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 30 Oct 2005 11:05

I respect these threads and the people who make them worth reading. I don't think allan respects those last posts enough to post again though. I respect that.

Post by **Allan** » 30 Oct 2005 12:45

Newf wrote: The IFPA board is an elected governing body. As such, it's members are subject to criticism from the public. Furthermore, they should know this, and they should know better than to think the public is wrong for voicing this criticism.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think critism is good and well and all part of the democratic process. Responding to critism is also part of that process.

EDIT: sorry for responding Tsiangkun

Obscure Talent or Sport?

Which would you use to describe footbag?