pushing too hard

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 26 Oct 2005 00:27

It seems like lots of the "new generation" of players seem to get injured lots - people who have improved a huge amount in a very quick time. I was thinking about this and maybe lots of people are pushing their game too hard? Do other people think that's possible. I remember for a while I was not only playing for a few hours every day but taking pain killers if I had any soreness etc. I realised that this was silly and now I pay much more attention to my body - so much so that I'm happy to cut moves out of my game completely if they cause problems and work on my technique for everything so that it's the least likely to cause injury (regardless of how good I think I am already at that move). I haven't had any serious injuries since I made the decision to avoid them at all costs - if I ever have some kind of body pain I won't do anything to make it worse. Is it possible that many new players are pushing too hard to be really good? You look at all the finalists at this years worlds and they've all been playing for about 5 years or more (actually I'm not positive about Karim but I'm pretty sure about the others). I guess I think it would be a good idea for other footbaggers to listen to what their bodies tell them and to really work hard on getting very solid basics rather than trying to a finalist at worlds after 2 years of playing. I don't know, it just seems like the newer fast improving players get injured a lot more than the more experienced players. I'm interested to know what other people think too

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 26 Oct 2005 06:00

Excellent topic. I would also like to know what others have to say about this. More importantly, is there a methodology for all beginners that involves practicing good physical health while improving their game at a good pace? There's going to be a lot of new players in the next 5 years, and it would be beneficial to have information on good physical health to avoid injuries early in the career.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 26 Oct 2005 07:12

Yeah, I know what you mean. I've only been kicking since around last Nov. and early Feb. If I try to shred too long or try too crazy of a trick, I usually hurt myself. Last time I hurt myself was when I had a crazy hip injury for about a week. It's gone now and I've shredded lots better because of it. I think the number one factor behind me getting injured is the fact that I forget to stretch. I probably should stretch more, but I don't.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 26 Oct 2005 08:44

Yeah Jeremy, I understand what do you mean.

Lon pointed it some time ago, when he started to post here. He wrote a post about slow and steady progress... ok here is the original post"

ShredOnLawn wrote: You guys learn too fast. It's not fair. I couldn't even do 5 inside kicks for like two years!
It's not about how fast you progress it's about how many months in a row you practice without getting injured. I got really really good but had to quit just because I pushed a little too hard and now my knee is hurt forever.

Slow but steady wins the race.

More than half of the first 25 BAP members have hurt themselves badly from playing footbag.
Learn from their mistakes and play slow and even.

Do what is smooth and fun for you, don't worry about a move if you suck at it don't do it. Period.

If I wouldn't have worked so hard on mullet and fearless I could still play today.

He is right...

And look at The Executioner. He was able to play for so long, without breaks, because he listened tho his body. He stoped doing barraging, when he noticed that it hurts his knees.

I see a common mistake. After injury young players are rushing, are trying to do what they were doing before... and this is too hard for their body, and they got re-injuried.
And there is a rush for some moves. Young players watch a lot of vids, and they see PS Whirls, Superflies, Mullets, Nemesis, and wan't to learn the moves they liked watching on videos too fast. This leads to improper technique on some moves, which leads to injuries.. and these injuries need time to heal ...

Just some thoughts. I don't want to spend too much time writing this post, so I wrote just what I think the most important. I've got some more thoughts on my mind.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 26 Oct 2005 08:56

Though I'm not instantly trying to hit that stuff what Pawel said after I see it on a vid, I admit that I might have been pushing a bit too hard. Now as the winter got here today it seems that my sessions will be limited only to 1-2 sessions per week, and that's not a good thing either.

It'd be great to achieve a balance, like having 4-6(7) session per week but a couple of them could be just easy-sessions, especially now in winter.

Plus people should have other sports and activities too to get a many-sided amount of excercise. Doing only one sport may not be even healthy, because the muscle balance might get 'wrong'.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 30 Oct 2005 10:41

Yeah, I believe now completely that rest helps. Shredding hc everyday didn't help me - I noticed I had one of the best sessions yesterday, when the last session before it was about 4 days before it. Today I played again - good again but not as good.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 30 Oct 2005 10:47

totally pointless and gross. Just like most of the posts you make. Enough. -MC

StyleeRiley · Post by **StyleeRiley** » 30 Oct 2005 15:59

While shredding daily is good, taking breaks is better. I've gone full tilt these past couple of days with the footbag alliance and now it's time to take a break. My left leg is killing me.

I think a certain someone from Missoula needs to quit being such a pain in the ass.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 31 Oct 2005 09:02

you need to STOP making useless, childish, inflammatory posts like this. You're going to get another time out if you keep it up. -MC

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 31 Oct 2005 21:23

something that no one seems to be taking into consideration is that footbag is a sport with NO support systems. any other sport has at the very least coaches who can say "don't do it that way, rework your technique on this first" "don't try that yet, you haven't got your timing down on these moves yet". we don't have a firm understanding of how a move should be executed from a human physiological stand point, we have no one to tell us how it should be done. we need to remember that footbag is still very young. for other sports, if they get injured and go to a sports clinic and explain their injury, often sports doctors understand the types of circumstances these atheletes are exposed to and the typical types of injurires they sustain. they have studied and understand the demands put on the body in these other sports, where as they don't even know what our sport is. i had to bring my lap top into my last appointment so my doctor could understand what it is i even do.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 31 Oct 2005 22:04

I agree with a lot of the points made so far.

Consider this as somewhat of a tangent, but something I've been considering for a while is a compendium of execution tips for various moves. Is anyone interested in creating this collaboratively? There are so many players that are fantastic teachers with a wealth of knowledge that could contribute to this. It would provide newer players with an easy go-to as they learn. The same goes for stretches, recovery methods, various products, equipment, etc. Just think, a resource holding a massive amount of information that is continuous asked over and over on various forums. This would be a fantastic step in the right direction for our sport in its journey towards stability and maturity.

*dreaming of the domain name "footbagresource.com" ... mmm*

fidottio · Post by **fidottio** » 04 Nov 2005 06:21

Sure, everyone has said to put insoles in their lavers, but of course I don't listen. I started played over a year ago and about 8 months in I had some pretty bad back pain (I also had just started my cube job, and I think that was also related to the back pain). I've been played in my Lavers with the stock insoles this whole time and no real back problems for a while. I've gotten a bit shakey though and I'm hoping its not related to any kind of spinal injury (I don't feel any pain, so I'm guessing it's alright??). Other than that, zero injuries. Ankle rolls usually aren't serious.

^^^Sort of off topic, oh well.

I love when new players push themselves really hard and as a result improve very fast. The only way to get the body ready for more demanding tricks is to school them. If someone tries mullet for hours and hours before giving up of course they have a higher chance of injuring themselves. I would try it for a bit of time before breaking it down into less demanding components then piece them together as it comes.

Footbag is all about variety.. there's no one good way to learn. Sure Peter Irish has been playing forever, but IMHO if everyone chose that path footbag wouldn't be so unique. Power to the 14 year old guiltless!

mc · Post by mc » 04 Nov 2005 10:30

fidottio wrote: Footbag is all about variety.. there's no one good way to learn. Sure Peter Irish has been playing forever, but IMHO if everyone chose that path footbag wouldn't be so unique. Power to the 14 year old guiltless!

You're right, in a certain respect... As the sport goes, it's better to have players like Vasek and Jorden pushing the game to such ridiculous new heights that the rest of us can't help but improve.

However, poor Vasek's knee is all messed up, who knows how much longer he'll be able to play at all? and he's what, 20? and Jorden... He's uninjured at the moment, but I have this sneaking suspicion that he's going to forget his glucosamine some day, and be in the middle of beta gyro gauntletscrew (that would be the PHATTEST move!) and his whole body is going to fall apart at the joints midair.

I'll take the long, smooth, controlled carreer, i think

although, even for my non-revolutionary game, that's gonna take some self control. I'm 23, and I just realized last week or so that I haven't played pain free in quite some time... SOMETHING's always sore or inflamed.

HooD · Post by **HooD** » 05 Nov 2005 06:42

Matt Cross wrote:I just realized last week or so that I haven't played pain free in quite some time... SOMETHING's always sore or inflamed.

Amen brotha cross ! It seems like something is always creepin up on me. Players will always push the game to crazy limits in any sport. The ones who can, already posess a natural skill and good footbag body type that can push harder, especially when they're younger and still developing a lot of physique. With that said, a lot of new players are emphasizing on the most common 'big moves' without really havin the other basics really down. For some players, it's really not a huge deal cause they already have the tools necessary to push those moves, but they don't have the experience. Other players, don't quite have what they need (proper form, muscle build, coordination, ankle stability, etc. etc.,), so they'll be havin some problems sooner or later cause they're not quite blessed with the proper body/skill/mindset. Listen to your body and make moves look easy. If you ignore either of those, you're gonna end up takin a recovery break.

FootbagGuru · Post by **FootbagGuru** » 09 Nov 2005 15:59

i have been playing for a little over a year, and i have progressed a shit load, in my eyes, and i never been hurt, knock on wood.

FootbagGuru · Post by **FootbagGuru** » 09 Nov 2005 16:01

Matt Cross wrote: beta gyro gauntletscrew

u named it, SEND IT MATT!

sorry for dbl post

Jdigges · Post by **Jdigges** » 10 Nov 2005 10:06

i've heard you complain tons of times about pains pat.

I think my back problems are due to footbag. i took like 2 weeks off of footbag, and my back was feeling much better. Then once i started playing, i started to get the same back pains and knotting up as before.

Matt Christopher · Post by **Matt Christopher** » 10 Nov 2005 10:47

Perhaps the only consolation of not having found footbag while I was a teenager is that I probably avoided injuring myself by practising too zealously.

I'm only just starting out, but my legs have definitely demanded some rest since I started putting such unusual demands on them. I waited for the aches and pains to subside before I resumed drilling and I think it paid off because my legs are much tougher now.

I also only tend to jam in the evenings - my joints and muscles are far less prone to injury at that time of the day.

busted · Post by **busted** » 20 Nov 2005 01:33

I was just considering these issues in my blog. I'm cutting a snippet from my blog to put here since I think it's pertinent.

I agree with a previous post in that the following are simply heuristics and what is really necessary is a deeper model of the physiology and biomechanics involved in footbag playing. I don't have the first clue of what correct technique would even be, though I beleive it's a very interesting question.

A few basics that I follow:
* make sure your shoes are relatively new.
* make sure you have comfortable insoles inserted.
* never kick on concrete, always try to kick on wooden gym floors.
* stick to a routine regarding frequency of playing.
* take awhile to warm up before hitting anything too hard i.e. you should be sweating BEFORE you go for that BLENDER or PS WHIRL.
* warm up with drills so that your body has a chance to remember whatever 'proper' form it may have.
* always stretch, especially the calves and hamstrings and lower back. These appear to be major problem areas for footbag players. I stretch both before and after playing. Btw, stretching doens't mean bending over for three seconds and grabbing your toes...
* avoid footbag concepts that you think are actively hurting you (I tend to avoid SYMPOSIUM, for example).
* pass the bag after a few drops of unsuccessfully hitting a trick (some say ONE but not me... an entirely seperate topic!) If you can't hit a trick by the third attempt then your body is probably too tired anyways and you need to give it a chance to reset. Too tired => bad form => pain.
* to this end I always make sure I have consumed a Gatorade or an energybar or something before playing (even a little caffeine) so that my mind and body are ready to do these incredible things I'm asking them to do.
* mix up your game so that you distribute the stress of footbag among as many different joints of your body as possible (i.e. too much stepping makes my shins hurt, too many pixies makes my hip hurt).
* play both sided for the same reasons.
* if you are hurt, don't play. If you do decide to play through pain it should be a famaliar pain that you understand very well.
* supposedly there are shoes that have more support... the New Balance CT300 and CT520s. Although they require heavy modification, perhaps they are better for players as large as me. I'm seriously considering trying a pair of the CT520s.
* I know this sounds weird, but if do find yourself injury free for awhile (say > 2 months), try not to change anything! In the absense of understanding let superstition suffice! That's how things were done back in the old'en days, and I see no reason to beleive we aren't currently in the "old'en" days of footbag right now.
* take pain killers like ibuprofen. I don't suggest going whole hog and ignoring your body... far from it. However my doctor told me that ibuprofen, etc., is both prophylactic and curative.
* listen to your body.

I have been trying to play every other day but I haven't been able to keep up even with this level of play lately due to pain in my (just below the) knees (area). Granted many things have changed for me since I'm now on a different continent, so routine is right out the window.

I keep having a very worrying thought, which I'm interested in others people's input here:

I'm 6'4'', 200lbs, & 30 years old (193cm 91kg). I'm just starting to "get good" at footbag. I.e. I'm that guy who has the genetic odds stacked against him when it comes to footbag. Most moves at my level now require both legs, precise sets, large jumps, etc.

What if my body simply cannot handle this more serious level of play?
In other words, the better I get, the more RPS injury I inevitably sustain!?
-David

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pushing too hard

pushing too hard

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