Abortion VS Adoption

pips · Post by **pips** » 25 Oct 2005 18:59

I've hesitated a long time to post this, because it was an actual personal issue of mine, and I thought it might get back at me somehow, but I still want to see what others think. Why is it that a woman has the right to abort a child without the father's consent, but then she doesn't have the right to give a child up for adoption without the father's consent? Either way she is planning on giving a child up, but one of them is giving the gift of life to a child and the gift of a child to parents who can't make one of their own, which seems more moral and in this nation (as far as I know) happens to be harder to do.

I think that both decisions should be done with the father's consent or both should be done without his consent. It just doesn't make sense to me that one has to be done this way, and the other has to be done that way, and they are both the same type of desicion. This is one issue where I think our government needs to sit down and really set some reasonable laws.

Please don't get into the, "It's not a child if it's still inside the mother," topic. I am just generally speaking of giving a (possible) child up.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 25 Oct 2005 19:04

With out going into that debate I can't really give any reason for that, however I'm in agreeance with those laws.

pips · Post by **pips** » 25 Oct 2005 19:10

I guess I kind of have that biased toward my opinions. Forget about not getting into the debate over if it is a child or fetus if you need it in order to explain your opinion.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 25 Oct 2005 19:30

Well basically I think that people should have control of what is done with their bodies - especially in the circumstance of a woman wanting an abortion and the father not wanting it. Obviously in regards to those two people having a future relationship it would be in the interests of the woman to discuss the issue rather than just making her own mind up but legally I think she should have the right to an abortion regardless of what the father wants.

However in the case of adoption the child is already born and is the responsibility of both parents so they should be expected to come to some kind of agreement between them. The way I see it, should the parents live together, choosing to adopt the child should be an option that they agree on before it's allowed to go ahead - it's the fathers child as well and he should have a right to see what happens to it. If the parents do not live together then I think it's even more important that the father be given the choice to look after his own child before it's given away - regardless of how the mother feels about the father - the child is not her child alone so once born they should have an equal say in what happens to it.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 25 Oct 2005 19:46

yep.

Basically, the choice to abort is hers. Once the child is born, both parents have rights.

dragonhack · Post by **dragonhack** » 26 Oct 2005 06:42

totally her choice int he end, the guy only has a minor say in what happens, and that say is only viable if the girl want's to listen.

pips · Post by **pips** » 26 Oct 2005 12:00

Yeah, I don't think I thought about this enough before I posted it. I was only thinking in one way and forgot about what Jeremy brought up and reminded me of-that a woman should be allowed to do what she wants to her body. I agree with that. I also agree that the father should have some say in an adoption if he wants to commit to being a father (not just to get revenge on a girl and make her have to keep the child, and he does nothing). I think at the moment back then, I was just frustrated that all of the sudden he wasn't agreeing with me, and I wasn't getting what I wanted at the time. Nobody likes to not get what they want, right? Although this seems like a short discussion, thanks for replying and helping me get some sense out of it that I did not see.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 26 Oct 2005 14:09

pips wrote:I also agree that the father should have some say in an adoption if he wants to commit to being a father (not just to get revenge on a girl and make her have to keep the child, and he does nothing).

I think you're leaving out the option that maybe the father wants to keep the child without the mother in either of their lives. A man can't make you keep the child if he wants to be the father; that doesn't mean that you have to stay the active mother. But I do get where you're coming from.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 26 Oct 2005 15:31

What if the woman decides to keep it - for the child support payments?

Hypothetical ofcourse.

~peace
Damon

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 26 Oct 2005 15:40

Then she'll still loose sleep, freedom and money in the long run.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 29 Oct 2005 10:45

What are you guys saying, that even if the father wants to keep the child the woman should still have the right to abort it?

Toby · Post by **Toby** » 31 Oct 2005 02:26

Yes. It's not like there's much hard work on his part in making babies.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 31 Oct 2005 08:41

Yes. It's not like there's much hard work on his part in making babies.

See, it's this comment that shows how screwed up abortion is. Abortion is about the killing of a potential human beings, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. The comment above basically says that it's justified for a woman (Potential mother) to kill a potential baby simply because she doesn't want all the "Hard work in makings babies."

Thanks for giving irresponsible women a form of birth control that allows them to kill potential children.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 31 Oct 2005 09:10

FlexThis wrote:What if the woman decides to keep it - for the child support payments?

Hypothetical ofcourse.

~peace
Damon

Her name is probably Sarah Ranzau and has two other kids to get support payments because she's a conniving cow. I could be a bit more vulgar because of my hate towards that person, but I doubt the modified community wants to hear just my hatred towards her. I'll go more in detail and make a topic about the story to get your guys' opinion later on.

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 31 Oct 2005 10:57

Well, there is really a lot at issue here.

While the fetus is in utero it is technically still considered part of the woman's body and totally dependent on her, therefore all decisions regarding it's care are left solely up to her, unless fought over in court. Upon birth the baby is independent of the mother and capable of care from either parent so if the mother decides she doesn't want to keep the child then the father has the opportunity to claim custody over the child.

In many instances as well, women don't know who the father is. I can't tell you how many times I've flipped past some stupid talk show where they are giving paternity tests to tell who the father is of some woman's child. The most recent one I saw had a woman on for the fourth time, testing the fourth man to see if he might be the father and it turned out he wasn't.
In situations of rape or unprotected promiscuity it's unlikely that a woman can say who the father is without a dna test being done in utero.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 31 Oct 2005 14:21

While the fetus is in utero it is technically still considered part of the woman's body and totally dependent on her, therefore all decisions regarding it's care are left solely up to her, unless fought over in court. Upon birth the baby is independent of the mother and capable of care from either parent so if the mother decides she doesn't want to keep the child then the father has the opportunity to claim custody over the child.

Whether or not the baby is dependant on the mother, and whether or not the baby is "technically" part of the womans body, doesn't really matter much to me, or to other people in my opinion. I went to great lengths to say the "Potential child" in my post when refering to the fetus, because whether or not it is inside the womans body, it is still it's own human being in potential.

The other part post really isn't even mine to discuss.

pips · Post by **pips** » 31 Oct 2005 16:40

I knew this was gonna happen...

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 01 Nov 2005 07:50

I knew this was gonna happen...

Public forum anyone?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 01 Nov 2005 08:11

Yeah Dan, I think the point is that this topic has nothing to do with if you agree with abortion or not. Rather than just seeing a topic that has the word "abortion" in it and then filling it with your anti abortion rhetoric perhaps it would be a good idea to actually read the topic and comment on the realistic nature of the topic. We do not live in an ideal world. We will never live in an ideal world. The question is not "do you agree with abortion". The question is:

Should the father get a legal right to decide if a baby is aborted or not? To answer this question you have to assume that abortion is legal - which it currently also is. If abortion is not legal then obviously that answers the question already so it would be a waste of time answering.

The second question is: if the father does not have that legal right, why does he have the legal right to choose if the baby is adopted or not?

Again this second question is assuming that abortion is legal and that the mother chose not to get an abortion - maybe against the father's wishes.

It seems like everybody in this topic managed to read the first post and understand what was being discussed and not simply use it as a platform to unsuccessfully try and convince the other people on the forum of some unrelated issue of ethics.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 04 Nov 2005 08:49

I apologize.

Abortion VS Adoption

Abortion VS Adoption

Re: Abortion VS Adoption