French riots , day 6

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 02 Nov 2005 09:37

Here's a link that seems to make excuses for the rioting, although earlier stories I saw had more details.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentin ... 052797.htm

Any kickers from around there want to give input?

Do these riots interfere with your footbag?

-n

max · Post by **max** » 03 Nov 2005 05:34

6 days sounds like a lot. These kind of riots often take place. The usual scenario is something like this:

- group of young delinquents rob a bank.
- police arrive at the scene
- shootout ensues
- one of the robbers is shot dead.
- family and friends from the youth's suburb go rioting, stating that he was a good lad (or something along those lines) and did not deserve to die.
- rioting ensues, burning cars is mandatory.

Personnaly I stay well away from these kinds of protests. I don't live in Paris anymore but I've been told that similar protests occur in Brussels also (where I now live). Oh and no, I can't say its interfered with my fb.

Leuch · Post by **Leuch** » 03 Nov 2005 07:42

Hey Mr Nathan, what do you exactly would like to hear??? There is not much to add to this article..

The situation is not good for sure... This kind of "rebelion" is the first one I've ever heared...
In those suburbs where all the immigrants are put together (you probably have the same in your country), life is really difficult, no work, violence etc etc, you know, so they're just going crazy about all this...
They also want to protest again the governement policy, and especialy against Mr Nicolas Sarkozy, who is being "very rude with them" and drugs and every thing..
This guy will probably be next president, and it definilty won't be funny....
But you have Bush at the head of your country, and it's not funny neither..

I just hope those guys will calm down, but btw, the problem will still be there, and it won't be easy to solve it..

What do you think about this?

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 03 Nov 2005 07:51

Leuch wrote:life is really difficult, no work, violence etc etc, you know, so they're just going crazy about all this...
They also want to protest again the governement policy, and especialy against Mr Nicolas Sarkozy, who is being "very rude with them" and drugs and every thing..
This guy will probably be next president, and it definilty won't be funny....
But you have Bush at the head of your country, and it's not funny neither..
What do you think about this?

So find someone who will do something about it. Come on, aren't you Frenchies supposed to be home to the Renaissance?

Maybe this time you guys will win a fight. Wait, nevermind, it's just French against French.

Just kidding, rioting does suck. The solution = send the military in and have them mow down the crowds.

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 03 Nov 2005 14:10

We've had the same sort of thin happen in Australia.
In 2004 a kid was chased by police (for some reason). The kid was on a bike and crashed and ended up dieing.
So then everyone went crazy and rioted.

I don't think it's an isolated thing.

dazza · Post by **dazza** » 03 Nov 2005 15:56

Blackend wrote: Come on, aren't you Frenchies supposed to be home to the Renaissance?

Thank you - i knew that my history teachers were always lying to me, when they said Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo were Italians !

On topic : these scenarios are somewhat inevitable, yet understandible .
The right winged secretary for inner affairs, Nicholas Sarkozy wants
to contender the negative reactions to the unsucsessful french policies
regarding immigration and intregation form the "foreingers" side ( most
of the immigrants' children have a french passport, but still get checked
by the cops on the daily) with all his might, once and for all .
He calls the young kids of black/arabian decent " racaille " - thats scum in
english, so its not to hard to figure out, where he stands politically.
The rioting kids on the other hand, dont do the right thing either -
burning down public busses and cars of people, who most likely are
not responsible for the fuck ups in french politics, wont direct things
in the right direction. It will definitly send out a signal - one, that the
liberal or socialistic people will interpret as a cry of protest, but most
others will interpret this violent form of rebellion as a proof that people
like Sarkozy, or worse Le Pen are right with their racist, over generalizing
slogans and their inclination to fight the symptoms rather then the root
of this "disease" which is or will afflict most of the western countries
sooner or later.
Qui seme le vent, recolte le tempo - who sows wind, will reap storm .
These kind of riots, as well as terrorist attacks and the silly wish of
countries like korea to have nuclear weapons are the direct or indirect
results of the ignorance and arrogance, which were dominant factors,
to say the least, in the most of foreing policies of the western world
since hundreds of years.
Do not think, that it is my opinion, that these major fuck ups are by
any means justifying any of the aforementioned actions - but they
are explaining them.
The only way out would be honestly questioning one motives and feelings
understanding, forgiving without forgetting and a strong will to
change things for the better on all sides - and this, since most human beings are egocentric, easy to scare ( manipulate) and revengeful,
chances for a change are close to zero .

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 03 Nov 2005 18:01

What do I want to hear about this?

I wanted to know if this inconvenienced anyone's footbag YET.

There will be other ramifications of course, and these Discussions are for non-footbag stuff.

BUT when worldy, political events can affect the footbag community ALSO ,I take special interest.

Let me float a few questions out there which the riots give an "opening".

------------

Which enlightened European nations or cities will become intolerant of people playing footbag?

Would a female playing footbag with males ,who are not her husband, be considered decadent or dis-honorable?

Do you see where I am going with this ?

I wanted some local input,

Sure, footbaggers should avoid being in gang and ethnic areas they don't belong ,for their own common sense safety.

Maybe I'm just a kook because I predict places where "religious police" ride around and beat women (of all religions) with clubs for showing to much skin.

This happens in a lot of places, but I just wouldn't figure Europe, the model of tolerance and acceptance, would allow itself to slip back into the dark ages.

Is France's headscarf-ban going to turn into a ban on NOT wearing headscarves?

Things happen faster than we think. Maybe even faster if people keep making excuses for them.

p.s. I didn't see the riots on American T.V. Is there a blackout?

Write a post if you saw it on a TV (include which station)

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Nov 2005 21:05

French news on sbs in Australia. Couldn't understand what was being said but presume it was the same thing. I didn't pay attention anyway.

Gareth mentioned the Australian thing - I think it's important to note the connection between that and the French thing - which is poor low educated people feeling oppressed. There is no connection in race or culture between those in France and those in Australia.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 04 Nov 2005 10:22

NuR wrote:
Blackend wrote: Come on, aren't you Frenchies supposed to be home to the Renaissance?
Thank you - i knew that my history teachers were always lying to me, when they said Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo were Italians !

D'oh!

Well, I was half right. The nation was a home to a bunch of panty wastes (military wise).

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 04 Nov 2005 11:36

Disabled Woman Set Ablaze

Updated: 12:36, Friday November 04, 2005
A handicapped woman was doused with petrol and set on fire by youths during another night of rioting in Paris..........

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0%2C ... %2C00.html

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 07 Nov 2005 22:08

Filed: 08/11/2005)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphic ... n08big.gif

-n

max · Post by **max** » 08 Nov 2005 01:54

One must understand 2 things:

- yes there are some dangerous parisian suburbs. The whole Seine Saint Denis department is home to huge criminality rates and its therefore quite fitting that most of the riots have taken place there.

- the US media are overhyping the riots in Paris (not the overall rioting, just what's going on in Paris). No Paris is not burning and no there isn't total carnage and rampage in the streets of Paris either. Then again the French media likes pointing out crap going on in the US and overplaying it too so I think it's quite fair that US media does the same when it comes to France.

So the situation IS very bad but it isn't yet a civil war with people fleeing the country or anything. Most rioting and car burning happen in parts of France that you don't want to be seen in even in broad daylight anyway.

That's my take on the thing, but I don't libe in France anymore, although I read french papers, so take my comments like you will.

cheers

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 08 Nov 2005 09:29

Plus I believe that map there doesn't give the real view about the riots(-or-not). A burning car somewhere doesn't mean the whole city is burning (like one could think when they see that pic).
Last time I saw such signs somewhere it was an article about the war in Iraq, and I so far don't see that much common with a war and the rioting in France (although I admit that I've got excellent standpoints on neither cases).

I think that France isn't much more dangerous place at the moment as it usually is. I wouldn't go to the suburbs anyway (not because I'd think they are below me, just because I wouldn't have reason to go there). Again, I must admit that I've never been to France, though would really much like to do that once.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 08 Nov 2005 10:57

Those are good points.

I put up that map for 2 reasons.

1. That was the first map of the country(in the media) I had seen, including the riot spots.

2. I thought to myself, " The telegraph.uk has to publish this, U.S. television is TO SCARED to display a graphic like that." (the reason may be explained below)

max said:

--------------------------
- the US media are overhyping the riots in Paris (not the overall rioting, just what's going on in Paris). No Paris is not burning and no there isn't total carnage and rampage in the streets of Paris either. (....)

---------------------------

I see U.S. cabvle television and newspapers burying this story the best they can.

Watching T.V. is a waste of time for riot news, mostly.

Local T.V. news talked about the electrocuted "boys", that was all the depth they had (probably incapable of more).

Last week's news were dominated by a tornado in the Midwest, or the Aruba-girl.

max said:
----------------------
9....)
So the situation IS very bad but it isn't yet a civil war with people fleeing the country or anything. Most rioting and car burning happen in parts of France that you don't want to be seen in even in broad daylight anyway. (...)
----------------------------

True,
It doesn't look like totally anarchy, crucial infrastructure hasn't been seized by Muslim gangs (as far as I know).

I've heard a few different "analysts" say that this is a dry run, or a probe of the authorities' responses.

So when the cold weather breaks in Spring, the real Intifada can begin.

The rioters have to like what they see.... Weak and indecisive leadership, and a willingnesss for the government to make concessions, as the rioting still rages on.

sniikerii
said:
----------------
Plus I believe that map there doesn't give the real view about the riots(-or-not).
-----------------

I just wanted a picture of the geography of the rioting.

So the map might still be useful, I didn't know if the attacks were limited to 300 cities all in one corner of the country.

n

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 08 Nov 2005 11:13

Lots of U.S. media wants to sweep the riots under the rug:

1. No criticism of Chirac-

Bush is roasted in the media around the world for hurricane Katrina responsibility/response.
Yet, Chirac gets NO negative U.S. press after 10 DAYS of doing nothing.

Chirac is revered by the media, because he lords over the socialist paradise(France) that our media would love for us to have.

2. (More to argue about later).............

This "uprising" (which spills over to Denmark, possibly others), could have deep ramifications for the rest of Europe, the future of the EU, the future of Western civ (what Muslim-autonomy demands will be made, and what demands will Europes' weak governments surrender to?)

note: I suspect Turkey's EU bid is now D.O.A., rightly or wrongly.

This issue\event will has to be talked about\argued ad naseum. We can't sweep this one under the rug forever.

-n

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 08 Nov 2005 11:16

Leader Of Racist Aztlan Movement Calls For French-Style Riots In US

(killing of ALL blacks and whites)

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/novemb ... rriots.htm

paulista · Post by **paulista** » 08 Nov 2005 15:36

That map is giving people an impression like there are suicide bombings in the whole of France every day, I've seen maps like that when US military bombed Iraq.
I think the main problem with French Muslims, and Muslim in most EU countries is, that they don't integrate into society. On one side the state put them in appartment ghettos, and offers as I heard less quality schooling for them, on the other side there is clinging on to traditional Arab attitude, clothing, laws and other things that prevent integration.

An average European job interviewer would never take a woman wearing a tchador for a job involving public, no matter what her qualifications are.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 08 Nov 2005 15:55

Yeah, they do look more like explosions than fires.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 08 Nov 2005 16:02

France is just the latest example of a generation that would have been working class, finding themselves no longer needed for the role of worker.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 08 Nov 2005 16:13

Yeah as usual, Nathen is keen to blame Islam and Muslims for these riots but I see it as similar (although on a larger scale) as many riots we've been seeing around the world in the last few years which are not brought on by religion but by the oppression of the poor and lowly educated. Religion may be the justification for the riots (I don't know) but it's definitely not the reason in my opinion. If we don't want people to feel angry at society we need to try and build an equal society.