Defining Suicide

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 02 Nov 2005 20:06

Wouldn't cancer from cigarettes be considered suicide? It's a behavior that will eventually end one's life...

No... Not really?

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 02 Nov 2005 20:44

BainbridgeShred wrote: If I did that I'd probably be banned, but Jeremy doesn't even call you on it. What Mod's this forum has.

Didn't you say you'd leave these forums? Why come back just to dis them? If you don't like modified or its mods, don't read the forums and don't post here.

pips · Post by **pips** » 02 Nov 2005 20:46

TheVindicator wrote:Don't you feel bad for people who fail attempting suicide? They wouldn't even succeed at not living

Wouldn't cancer from cigarettes be considered suicide? It's a behavior that will eventually end one's life...

IMHO, Suicide=One causing oneself to die prematurely from unnatural causes

I don't like your comment about feeling bad for failed attempters. I mean yeah, it's sad, but I would maybe be more relieved that this person has failed and is now hopefully getting help.

About the smoking becoming suicide someday...ahhh...I think that is going too far for defining suicide. That is like saying that driving or skydiving or doing some other risky activity that could result in death is committing suicide. I'd say that the action(s) has/have to be deliberately done to have oneself killed.

dyalander · Post by **dyalander** » 02 Nov 2005 21:19

you know whats suicide? living. think about it everyone who lives will die, its clearly suicide. I for one am heading to my local cryogenic freezer.

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 02 Nov 2005 23:58

Ahhh....

I wanted to read something profound in the "Meaning of Life" thread and instead I saw a couple of dumbass responses like "FOOTBAG" or "ass titties titties ass ass titties" followed by an "AMEN", some shit about the military and a whole laundry list of Born Again bible thumping brainwashing horseshit. To say the least I was utterly disappointed in the lack of real discourse on such a topic.

Recently we discussed suicide in one of my classes following a reading of "The Doomed in Their Sinking" by William Gass. Religion came up as well and the idea of Jesus as a suicide was mentioned. From that I thought about what happens to suicide souls in the Catholic faith and voila, you got my post. Not to be taken seriously as it was totally incomplete and anyone who has read my serious posts often finds them to be full of shit anyway. I figured it was as good a place as any to throw in some offhanded drivel. Certainly as valid as anyone elses garbage that hit that thread. Next time I'll use a fuckin' smiley.

Craig (aka Lynksys) decided the "Meaning of Life" thread was his moment to come out with his white belt in Christ-fu and tell everyone that Jesus died for our sins and now it's time to ask his fucking forgiveness. "He received the punishment that WE deserved." We Fucking Who??? Wanna go on with all this "WE" bullshit, then voi-fucking-la we are all responsible for the Crusades, the Holocaust, Slavery everywhen and where, 9-11, and every other horrible act of humanity. Fuck That!!! As such I don't consider my comment about Jesus and suicide to be either out of place for the thread nor extremely rude to anyone. Craig posted his beliefs in the "Discussion" section which clearly states "READER BEWARE, YOU'RE IN FOR A SCARE! This section is mostly serious non-footbag discussion and it can get ugly." This section is fair game. And if Craig is fully latched on to God's bosom then my words are those of a misguided heretic and it gives him one more soul to pray for.

Contrary to Bainbridge's thought, I did not start this whole thing with the intent on calling anyone a "fucking idiot". It was certainly inappropriate, however cathartic it may have been.
I did however start all this to get some serious discussion going and I think it definitely came out. After all the crap about wanting to leave this thread alone, Chris actually made a post that fully articulated his thoughts. I still disagree with most of it, but at least he explained himself extremely well.

As for not moderating my post well that has been accounted for. My post has been moderated.

Oh and I like Bander's definition of suicide.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Nov 2005 00:13

Actually just to be clear on something - you can name call and insult people in the discussion forum as much as you like providing you don't use discrimitory terms out of context. This is all in the rules. It would be good if both the mods/admins and the people in this forum could read those rules - especially the other mod/admins since they agreed with the rules when they were first stated.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Nov 2005 00:15

Jeremy wrote:1. Don't post directly offensive posts without backing them up. For example if you feel the need to say something like "u suk u stoopid mooron" - (sic) then at least say why you think that it is. This is the discussion forum and it's very hard to discuss someones opinions if you don't actually give any information to discuss.

So basically Brad was definitely allowed to "name call" according to the rules and nobody has ever been banned for naming calling in the discussion topic. People occasionally get pms about it but that's usually as far as it goes.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Nov 2005 00:18

shredzilla wrote:
Jeremy wrote:Brad's comment about Jesus was clearly not serious and taking not serious posts seriously is a silly waste of time.
So you think it's okay to completely mock someone's religion? I'm sorry, but I find that incredibly rude and disrespectful. It wasn't directed at me, but I felt that it was done in very poor taste and needed to be discussed at the very least. I've honestly tried to stop posting about this, but somehow the point just hasn't hit home.

Read the rules of this forum please

BainbridgeShred wrote: You must've known that it would only lead to one of these time of mindless threads where you actually resort to calling some "a fucking idiot". If I did that I'd probably be banned, but Jeremy doesn't even call you on it. What Mod's this forum has.

Read the rules of this forum please

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 03 Nov 2005 05:13

Jeremy wrote:
shredzilla wrote:
Jeremy wrote:Brad's comment about Jesus was clearly not serious and taking not serious posts seriously is a silly waste of time.
So you think it's okay to completely mock someone's religion? I'm sorry, but I find that incredibly rude and disrespectful. It wasn't directed at me, but I felt that it was done in very poor taste and needed to be discussed at the very least. I've honestly tried to stop posting about this, but somehow the point just hasn't hit home.
Read the rules of this forum please

Yeah, I've read them a few times thanks Jer. I was asking do YOU think it's okay to bash someone's religion.

I understand that this forum allows us to use racial slurs, and bash people for no reason and all that. I'm mearly stating that I felt Splint's comments were unnecessary, rude, disrespectful, and irrelevant to the topic we had been discussing. He himself admitted to hijacking the thread, then said that he wasn't serious at all. You feel me adressing Splint's blatent rudeness was silly and a waste of time.

Jeremy wrote:Brad's comment about Jesus was clearly not serious and taking not serious posts seriously is a silly waste of time.

I wrote:So you think it's okay to completely mock someone's religion?

Now can you please answer my question instead of trying to sound like a know-it-all monitor.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Nov 2005 05:35

I think it would be pointless to have a "discussion" forum where only particular views were allowed to be discussed. I think we all have to accept that different people have different views to us and if we want to interact with different people we have to accept that they will say things we don't agree with.

Regarding bashing religion in general - well I hate religion and I personally think it does a lot more harm than good - especially Christianity. I try my best to tolerate it and I enjoy discussing religion with people and learning about it but frankly I'm never concerned by seeing people dis religion. Obviously some people are sensitive about their beliefs and could be offended by the bashing of a religion but if you can't take criticism of your beliefs it seems to me that you lack some faith.

That's just my personal opinions - as a moderator I try my best to set a good example of behaving in the manner I'd like to see other people behave.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 03 Nov 2005 07:11

Well, I guess I understand the value of couth and respect in modern society. Bashing someone for any belief or lifestyle I feel is completely uncivilized. You feel that it's a completely normal and civil thing to do. Cool. Next time I see your mom I'm gonna tell her she's a big fat hoe.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 03 Nov 2005 08:05

READER BEWARE, YOU'RE IN FOR A SCARE! This section is mostly serious non-footbag discussion and it can get ugly.

chrismiller wrote: I will not dignify the remainder of your last post with a response, because you've now resorted to name-calling. However, even if you were joking about this:

Splint wrote:
As a suicide, Jesus' soul now burns eternally in hell. As such if you accept him into your heart you accept Satan.

It was in VERY poor taste. Please have respect for people on the forum and their beliefs.

I think you need to realize that this forum is where the men/women talk. If you get offended and want to cry to mommy because someone called you insert personal inflammatory remark and don't like to read "real world talk," then don't read this forum.

READER BEWARE, YOU'RE IN FOR A SCARE! This section is mostly serious non-footbag discussion and it can get ugly.

By viewing this forum, you've read the statement in blue, right?

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 03 Nov 2005 08:06

Oh yeah, I put the "insert personal inflammatory remark" in there myself. I figured name calling would result in time out.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 03 Nov 2005 09:26

See, now you're going back to the rules of the forum. I'm not talking about the forum anymore Jer. See, just because you have these 'rules' that allow people to do whatever they want in this piece of virtual reality, doesn't make it right.

Jeremy wrote:frankly I'm never concerned by seeing people dis religion.

By 'dis' I assume you mean disrespect. Which means you think it's okay to be disrespectful IN OR OUT of this forum Jeremy. Just listen to what you're saying before you start getting on me about not reading the rules.

I'm growing weary. You guys are starting to wear me down. For someone to believe it's okay to be insulting, well that person has a different value system than I do. They also do not speak my 'language'. Therefore, we are incapable of communicating effectively.

Freedom is a right that should be enjoyed, not abused. I find that flame wars like these are often best avoided when people go out of their way to not be insulting. Just like Jeremy thinks it's okay to self serve, interupt someone's string with constant 'Thes', dis religion, and other things that may glorify the raw nature of true freedom, I find that there is grace in refininement of one's behavior.

Jeremy and I are two sides of the same coin. I don't fault him for his beliefs. I just feel that they lack character, and don't contribute to life in a positive way.

mc · Post by mc » 03 Nov 2005 10:01

what a tangled web we macrame, when first we practice to flambe... or something...

I think suicide is the act of taking actions that are immediate or somewhat immediate (ingestion of poisonous food / drink / pills, inhalation of poisonous gas) for the end purpose of ending one's own life.

If the end purpose is to commit the sacrifice of one's self for what one feels is a more important cause (noble or ignoble), that is a similar act, but not the same in my opinion.

To commit suicide is to act upon the sense that the pain of death is less than the pain of life, to take the path of least resistance.

To commit self-sacrifice is to act upon the sense that the extinguishing or lessening of a pain inflicted upon this world and this life by a force either inside or outside of yourself is worth the pain of your own death, to stalwartly face a path of great resistance, that being the denial of your own will to live.

I personally think that the origin of the motive is important when defining suicide.

I also think that smoking cigarettes is the same kind of "suicide" as driving a car. You go into the situation accepting certain dangers, and commit the act while accepting them. We hope the dangers won't be realized, but we're aware of them.

I think suicide by method of police is suicide. It's taking specific actions that you know or predict will end your life. It's like jumping out of a plane wtih no parachute. The ground didn't choose to kill you. You took specific actions that you knew would make the ground kill you.

I think the manner in which and the reasons for which the woman kills herself in The Life of David Gale is an example of the grey area between self-sacrifice and suicide. Kind of a resigned sacrifice. I hope some of you have seen that movie, it's pretty intense. and Kevin Spacey rules.

Hope not too much of this has been said already. I haven't read a lot of this post because it gives me a headache. I just wanted to get some thoughts out there.

Yay lunch break!

professor · Post by **professor** » 03 Nov 2005 12:58

Bander87 wrote:I came up with a quote a while back "Sacrifice without cause is suicide".

I think suicide is killing yourself only because you don't want to live anymore, nothing more than that. If you dive on a gernade, you are considered a person who commited a heroic deed, not one who commited suicide. Also, dieing for a cause is being a marder or whatever, not suicide. Killing your self because you simply don't want to live anymore is suicide.

It all depends what you are dieing for IMO.

I think this deserves another read. It is one of the best posts in this thread. If one person gave up their life to save the entire world, would you say they committed suicide? They committed a crime of murder? I hope not.

Brad, saying Jesus committed suicide and therefore implying that he sinned or in someway violated a biblical principle is, to put it bluntly, ignorant to what the Bible actually says.

The Bible / John 15:13 wrote:The greatest love you can have for your friends is to give your life for them.

So as you can see the greatest love is giving your life for someone. Meaning you chose to give your life. So what Jesus did, was in no way violating biblical values.

On the subject of mocking religion, what Brad said was definitely a derogatory remark towards the Bible and religions that are based on the Bible. I don't think it was appropriate, but I also don't think it needs to be addressed by the mods. I am personally not offended even though he did mock the book I base my worldview around. It is not my job to chastise people for making fun of my worldview, but it is my job to stand up for what I know is truth.

I personally think everyone in general needs to get off the "your offending me" or the "respect my beliefs/rights" bandwagon. I think it is mostly a cop out for people who don't know how to support their arguments in a discussion. Brad can have his opinion and no matter how wrong or right it is, it is his opinion. Jeremy "hates" Christianity, I am a Christian and I think he is wrong, but it doesn't "offend" me. And if it did, who care's. Things are going to offend you, not to be rude but, get over it. Unless what is said is a direct attack against a person's character, is illegal, or is usless insults, I think it should be allowed in the discussion section.

So in short, Brad is wrong and he shouldn't have made his point in that manner, but that's what he chose to do, so he should be allowed to post without repercussions.

I'm sorry if I "offended" anyone, that was not my intentions.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Nov 2005 16:32

Yeah I agree with Ben completely... apart from the whole god thing.

Jeremy wrote:
frankly I'm never concerned by seeing people dis religion.

By 'dis' I assume you mean disrespect. Which means you think it's okay to be disrespectful IN OR OUT of this forum Jeremy. Just listen to what you're saying before you start getting on me about not reading the

This is silly. Of course there are times when somebody will saying something against a religion and it will concern me - either because I think they're saying it an inappropriate time or because I'm suspicious of their motives. (ie. if they're saying Islam should be banned). However in these cases it's not the dising religion part that concerns me, it's the lack of respect and the implications of their comments. It is entirely appropriate to dis religion in the discussion forum at modified. It is entirely inappropriate to go into a church on Sunday and start loudly dissing Jesus for being a n00b. Were I in a church on a Sunday and somebody did that I would not be concerned with what they're saying - I'd be concerned with where they are saying it. My comments were aimed purely at discussing religion on this forum and not discussing it in person with people.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 03 Nov 2005 19:57

Cool.

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 12 Feb 2006 22:46

awhile ago there was a pic on one of my motorcycle forums of a supposed accident victim and it was ugly. It turned out it was a guy that put a shotgun in his mouth and failed to finish his suicide attempt.
So when I die on my bike be confident it was a dumb car driver and I didnt try and idiotic suicide shit.

krumpage · Post by **krumpage** » 19 May 2006 16:52

ok i say that theres suicide which is directly killing yourself and indirect suicide which would follow the letting someone kill you or jumping in from of a bus or taking any action knowing it leads to death except theres a difference from suicide and sacrifice. sacrifice is willing knowing you will die but for a purpose of the greater good (unless you have a twisted mind that thinks good really is evil in other peoples eyes but what ever). with the christ example he willingly dies to help the rest of the world which is a pretty selfless act. now that i think about it if he will forever burn in hell how the hell did he get revived. so yes sacrifice is suicide but not quite because suicide you willingly do it and sacrifice you do it with and outside influence. ugh i suk at explaining things. o well ill say what i always say at least i tried. unlike some mindless readers who have opinions but dont bother to say them.