Both Sidedness- A Must for Today's Footbag Game?

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 22 Nov 2004 02:36

crazydwarf wrote: agreed, if you don't want to be a very good player, and you are just trying to have fun, do whatever you want. Being bothsided would probably be more fun for me though...

that is a very opinionated statement there. are you trying to say both-sidedness is the only thing that makes someone good?

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 22 Nov 2004 04:22

^^^Yeah, as if being a good player and playing for fun have to be mutually exclusive.

I think it should be expected that we all have different opinions about what qualifies a 'good' player. Some think it is big moves, having lots of variations and being good at all the concepts, long runs, both sidedness, flow, originality, blah, blah blah. I think it's a good sign - people are playing for themselves.

It's just not really surprising that there is going to be disagreement, over all of these things because we all play for different reasons and all strive for different goals.

Is bothsidedness a worthy goal? I think it is because it can vastly improve your run variation and linking possibilities. However I think we must have different definitions of the concept of both-sidedness if not being able to hit flip flurricane makes you not bothsided. I mean that is stringent. Normally I associate it with people who when having the footbag on their weakside will chronically bail over to their strongside to perform a hard move. Normally I think this is pretty easy to pick - especially people going from weak toe to butterfly.

Also, I don't understand the robotic bit. If anything it is the other way around. I'm assuming that by robotic you mean repeating the same move selection in a predictable way all the time (so someone bailing all the time for instance). If that's the case when I think bothsidedness definitely reduces this robotic-style because you eventually increase the sum amount of moves you can perform (as well as from any given surface) as I think Jeremy O pointed out before. This is especially the case when you think about when it goes to your flipside, because you know your move selection is going to be really limited to some basic moves that are less moves in themselves, and more just avenues to getting to your strongside where you can really start to bust.

People who get all bitchy about other players not being bothsidedness though? It's already been said well in this thread:

B_Man wrote:It's not called free style for nothing

RRendsvig · Post by **RRendsvig** » 22 Nov 2004 07:55

ShredPirate, Laroche,
I have fallen in love with, call them drills, mirror combos, what ever.
I love to watch Lon Smith. I love the planned koreographi.
I love doing it myself. No I don't do the drills that are easy to me (thus being drills) in runs, but I try certain repeat-combos. The same sensation you get when hitting 2 big tricks in a row, planned and every thing, I get when I hit a 3 (x2) contact mirror combo.
I find it boring to look at people doing random stuff just freestyling away, when they do nopt consider wheather their combos (and the moves of the moves) in them fit together.

My philosofi is: start small both sides and work your way up, both sides. In the end you'll be able to hit blurry torque > blurry drifter back 2 back - easily.

james · Post by **james** » 22 Nov 2004 08:21

All combos are cool.
And there is a difference between not having a flipside and having one and not using it.
Not only is being onesided limiting but it is lazy.
What you do in a string is irrespective of this.
One sided combos are awesome, drills are awesome, bsos is awesome. Being limited is not awesome.
Flipside is the maximum amount of skill you can have for a move. If you can't do a move both sides you havn't mastered that move.

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 22 Nov 2004 10:35

ShredPirate, Laroche,
I have fallen in love with, call them drills, mirror combos, what ever.

You`re going to hate to watch me shred then. Mirrors can be cool, but they better be big or unique.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 22 Nov 2004 12:50

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 22 Nov 2004 13:55

precisely!

There are lots and lots of neat sorta mirror combos too that use most of the same components but with little changes make them flow differently. like..

pdx whirl>pdx blender>barrage>dod

That is very 'both sided' and still unique without being robotic I think.

I am striving to one day have that sort of control and flow to my game.

one day...

crazydwarf · Post by **crazydwarf** » 22 Nov 2004 15:22

that is a very opinionated statement there. are you trying to say both-sidedness is the only thing that makes someone good?

No, sorry if that's what it sounded like, what I was saying is that all good players can hit at least some tricks on both sides. It's not the only thing, but I definitely think it is one factor.

^^^Yeah, as if being a good player and playing for fun have to be mutually exclusive.

Of course people who are good players have fun when they are playing. "just for fun," is an expression that is commonly used, for instance I could say I play volleyball just for fun, and you wouldn't think that I meant that professional volleyball players didn't have fun when playing. I meant "people playing for fun" as the people don't play competitively and don't ever plan too. This means that there sole reason for playing is to have fun, and in that case they should do whatever they find most enjoyable.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 22 Nov 2004 15:45

i am a sucker for the bsos/mirror combo. but i like to try bigger longer ones with like 12 contacts. on of my favorites is...
parkwalk> sidewalk> ripwalk> blur> dimwalk> stepping same mirage> rpt

and magellan> parkwalk> sidewalk> ripwalk> schmoe> rpt

it brings balance to the force.

dazza · Post by **dazza** » 24 Nov 2004 16:13

To have all components of freestyle on both sides leaves
you and your game with the most possibilites as far flow,
linking and variation is concerned. Win-win, there just isnt
anything bad about that.

Lacking some components one one side clearly limits your
game and makes runs more predictable; you simply cant
be as spontaneous, since you always have to switch to the
set you feel comfortable with.

To claim bothsideness is boring just doesnt make any sense,
of course, certain mirror combos can be, but that depends
on how you do them (what moves,composition, how often...)

Telling another players what to do with his style and taste,
is body fascism

, unless that person asks for advice.
What happened to the good old laissez-faire ?

I strive for bothsidedness, and i can only recommend it
to every other player, who is still a novice like me, and
thats why i voted pro choice !

Ogden 09/04 · Post by **Ogden 09/04** » 30 Nov 2004 11:48

Tom Mosher and I are part of the Kingston Footbag Militia, and it is a shame to not use both sides, or at least try each tricks as mant time as the other, or the weaker one more often , to make it cath up to the other one, i like using both side, there are only a few tricks that i can only hit on my srtong side but i practice at it all the time.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 30 Nov 2004 17:19

Jeremy wrote:Let me give you an example:

There was a time when I could only hit pixie sets on one side and torques on one side. This meant I could hit one move combining those two components - pixie ss torque.

Now I can pixe and torque on both sides - so I can hit 4 different moves with the two components - pixie ss torque both sides and pixie torque both sides.

One sided player has 1 move - both sided player has 4.
)

I thought this was a very good post.

Personally, I don`t care that much if people use their flipside. I don`t like watching boring shred. If somebody only uses their strong side, I find it can get kinda predictable watching them play, and that can get boring. If somebody only uses their strong side, but uses it creatively, then flipsidedness doesn`t matter much to me. On the other hand, a flipsided player can be boring to watch if he does robotic, repeat combos all the time. That just doesn`t interest me that much. I think my favorite style to watch, is watching a flipsided player mix it up so you don`t keep track of which side is flip. Being flipsided gives you the ability to hit the most creative combos, imo.

I also feel that being able to do tricks on your flipside strenghtens your strong side. Lots of people can hit superfly on one side. But if you can hit it on your flipside, that means that you really understand the move, and therefore can apply that knowledge to improve your strong side.

Larson · Post by **Larson** » 07 Nov 2005 21:11

I like to find a good balance between my weak and strong side. My right is stronger and will always be stronger, because this is my choice. That dose not mean I forget about my left side. As my strong side progresses I like to keep my weak side progressing to. I never tend to be completly symetrical (although I have much respect fot Bothsidedness) I just like to keep my left(weak side) within a certain distance of skill level away from my right(strong side) I never try to completly balance them out.

When you repeatedly do moves back to back It does seem to loose some of its artistc appeal and look more like a robotic drill. But symetry is a big part of beauty, and to be completly onesided comes off as unatractive to some people.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." You just need to find your balance.

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 07 Nov 2005 22:52

I also find the idea that bothsidedness is boring puzzling. Obviously predictable combos are, but being able to throw down a variety of concepts on either side makes for very interesting and unpredictable shred, as others have said. I particularly liked the points about using concepts both sides but not tricks.

I think Jeremy's post outlines how I feel most about it, though. Being that I'm only beginning to learn sets... it really annoys me that I can only hit a certain number of moves due to the sides I can consistently set from and what downtime components I can hit from that. Bothsidedness is extremely important to me... I don't want my strings to be predictable.

p.s. barfly > barfly... sick

I agree that there are definately some awesome repeating combos... just use them sparingly hehehe

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 08 Nov 2005 00:49

Holy resurrection Batman!

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 08 Nov 2005 00:56

Actually I was kinda glad to see this one come back. This was the thread that inspired me to skool my flip steppings and pixies.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 08 Nov 2005 07:02

BOTH SIDES.

As time goes on and I put more thought into this I am forced to say that one sidedness is just plain ugly and predictable.

I get really annoyed when you *know* which clipper the person is going to bail to or strongly favor.

I am not claiming to be some total bothsided monster, I have noticed in my videos that I sometimes tend to favor one or the other strongly on a particular day. Not sure why that is.. but it's true.

I like the way Erik Chan put it sometime when he described Jordens shred, he said he can hit basically anything on both sides but he isn't trapped into BSOS routines.

I think that is ideal, it lets you be totally free and not forced to bail back over to the strong side to hit the trick you want, you get to hit so many more cool links!

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 08 Nov 2005 10:22

Both sides definitely. I'm workin heavy on my left now so I don't become the one-legged wonder later on.

Bander87 · Post by **Bander87** » 08 Nov 2005 11:02

I think everyone should be both sided, but you don't nessarly have to hit BSOS when your shredding.

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 08 Nov 2005 12:57

I think eveyone should play how they want. I used to be incredibly one sided (no flipside clipper), and then I worked really hard on getting all my moves up to par flipside. I think being both sided is more fun.
Sure hitting blurry torque and pdx torque in one run is fun, but when you hit both of them bsos in a run, its WAY more satisfying.

modified

Both Sidedness- A Must for Today's Footbag Game?

Which of the following describes your thoughts on bothsidedness?