The theory of "intelligent design"

mahhkohh · Post by **mahhkohh** » 16 Nov 2005 14:39

hi...

today i read an article that really made me angry.it was about intelligent design. This is a alternative theorie about the evolution of mankind,or evolution in general.basicly it says that everything on this planet cant just popped up and evolved from its own.they claim that there is a "bigger something" that guided that whole process...i mean,for me this is a theory no more,but,now the upsetting thing for me starts.in the us there is a big organisation that wants to change the way how teachers tell the kids about evolution.they say that this whole evolution thing is wrong,darwin is a lyer and so on.i mean,this article said that 42% of the american people belive that earth and life was made like its said in the bible...and this organisation has "professors" in their line that say"evolution is ridiculous,mankind and earth was made(!) around 6000 to 10000(!!) year ago by god(!!!).they say that every sientist that come with fosil founds of dinosaurs and stuff is a bad scientist that "closes his eyes to the truth"i mean,this organisation put effort into the achievment that this stuff,that i thing of as total crap,is taught in school.i mean,this was teached in the dark ages...come on...

i would like to hear some opinions,and please dont attack me if u feel offended,just explain your point!

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 16 Nov 2005 14:46

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

This is just a reaction to Darwinism.

I personally don't get offended by either side's stance. There are issues regrading both that have huge gaps in terms of REAL PROOF.

For Evolution:
We have no missing link to connect man to beast
What caused the Big Bang? And where did all that energy come from to begin with?

For the Other:
We have no God to ask here in the now.
Noone has ever returned from death to tell the tale.

~peace
Damon

Spawn · Post by **Spawn** » 16 Nov 2005 14:51

Thats a trippy theory.
but i heard one about how the dinosaurs died. Dinosaur developed to use 100% of thier brains unlike us who use 5%, they built guns that shot particle beams and hunted each other, until they wipe them selfs out. So...this being said if we keep up with voilence we'll all end killing each other.

p.s. sorry for the grammar and spelling.

ted · Post by **ted** » 16 Nov 2005 15:16

FlexThis wrote:There are issues regrading both that have huge gaps in terms of REAL PROOF.

Only if you fail to understand, or choose to misinterpret, what Evolutionary Biology argues.

FlexThis wrote:We have no missing link to connect man to beast

Right, there is no missing link. I assume you're rehashing the oft-cited "but where are the intermediate forms between man and apes?" We postulate that man and our closest (now extinct) relatives diverged from one another some time in the Pleistocene, about 1.5 million years ago. If you look at a phylogeny, this event appears as a bifurcation in the 'family tree'. Also notice that there is an element of time associated with a phylogeny; it has been a very long time Homo sapiens has shared an ancestor with Homo erectus, and in that time our lineage has evolved into a modern form. No biologist has ever predicted that diversification should produce an array of intermediate forms, each persisting in the fossil record. That's just not how it works.

FlexThis wrote:What caused the Big Bang? And where did all that energy come from to begin with?

I think very few of us here have any requisite knowlege to make arguments against evolution based on cosmolgy.

Spawn wrote:they built guns that shot particle beams

Hmmm. Maybe.

footjoe · Post by **footjoe** » 16 Nov 2005 15:20

god created us

why havnt evolution people found fossils that are inbetween evolution like half bird had reptile? becuase there is none just thinkng about it makes me sick. God created everything to his own liking. when the world was created it was one big land mass then he split it and those are our seven continents. Im not trying to start a flame war its just my belief.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » 16 Nov 2005 15:23

mahhkohh wrote:basicly it says that everything on this planet cant just popped up and evolved from its own.they claim that there is a "bigger something" that guided that whole process...

I don't know why this is used to prove evolution false. Where did this "bigger something" pop out of?

ted · Post by **ted** » 16 Nov 2005 15:32

http://www.venganza.org/

They wrote:I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

mahhkohh · Post by **mahhkohh** » 16 Nov 2005 15:33

footjoe wrote:god created us

why havnt evolution people found fossils that are inbetween evolution like half bird had reptile?

its just my belief.

well actually there is such a thing,its called archeoptirix...it was first found in germany and looks like a lizard with wings and feathers!

i dont to question noones beliefe,i just wnat to say this again.i just wanna hear some oppinions.

but toby is right...i think...to all "god made us"-believers.can u tell me were god came from?no?...i thought so...again,no offending

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 16 Nov 2005 15:43

Two things.

1) Regarding the "two sides" of the debate. There is only one theory backed with scientific evidence and testable hypothesis. If you are not on the side with the evidence, you have no side. Giving a name to a supernatural explanation with no testable theories does not make it a side in the debate, it makes you a loon. I think we should give equal weight to the side that says the earth is flat, and the sun is a boiling pot of gold.

2) Evolution is not a theory of creation. Evolution does not pretend to cover creation. Evolution does not attempt to explain creation. Only creationist use evolution as an explanation of creation.

A number of "missing links" have been found. The creation^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HIntelligent design advocates keep moving which link needs to be found with each newly uncovered missing link.

full nelson · Post by **full nelson** » 16 Nov 2005 15:47

I don't care if people want teach intelligent design on their own terms in their own time. Keep it out of schools. It's not a science.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 16 Nov 2005 15:53

footjoe wrote: why havnt evolution people found fossils that are inbetween evolution like half bird had reptile?

We call those Dinosaurs, we have lots of fossils for them.

The oldest bird fossils are of a creature known as Archaeopteryx, an animal that is practically half bird, half reptile.
Link with Image

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 16 Nov 2005 15:56

footjoe wrote:god created us

why havnt evolution people found fossils that are inbetween evolution like half bird had reptile? becuase there is none just thinkng about it makes me sick. God created everything to his own liking. when the world was created it was one big land mass then he split it and those are our seven continents. Im not trying to start a flame war its just my belief.

They did find a fossilized reptile with feathers.....its at the ROM (Royal Ontario Museum) and i saw it in person two years ago while on a museum tour. I assumed it was common knowledge. Proves how uncommom common sense is.

BTW How do you know god is a he?

Tsiangkun wrote:2) Evolution is not a theory of creation. Evolution does not pretend to cover creation. Evolution does not attempt to explain creation. Only creationist use evolution as an explanation of creation.

To true.......you can rationally beleive (if you want to) that God created the earth 6 billion years ago, created the laws of physics and biology, and just let things happen.

Sometimes i like to think we are Gods 8th Grade science project that got forgotten about in an old locker!

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 16 Nov 2005 15:57

Sorry...Tsiangkun beat me to it.......good link though!

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 16 Nov 2005 15:58

[No flames]

Since when has science ever been perfect? It is but a series of tested methods that in themselves evolve as technology advances.

Was it not once thought that the atom was the smallest particle - scientifically proven even???

Then came the electron, then the quark.

My point is that as science has evolved with the times, the Bible has remained unchanged.

Either science keeps getting it wrong and religion has always been right.

Or science is catching up to the truth while religion has missed the point.

JMO

[/no flames]

~peace
Damon

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 16 Nov 2005 16:28

Historically, it was thought that the fossil record would be filled with millions of intermediate species.

Scientists didn't find them.

Creationist declared victory.

Scientist kept studying the way the world works.

What Scientists have discovered is that the sudden appearance of new limbs, etc is what we observe in the lab, when we make small genetic modifications to the homebox genes, and their pathways. This is different than the previous theory that limbs would grow slowly over long periods of time. This advancement in understanding, now makes the theory of evolution consistent with the fossil record, and removes the need for finding the missing links.

The creationist were right about something, there never were millions of intermediate forms for each change. Many speciation events happened very quickly.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 16 Nov 2005 17:35

the Theory of Intelligent design is not an attempt to replace the teaching of the THEORY of evolution in classrooms, it only seeks to level the playing field, as both of these are un-proven theories.

Charles Darwin studied Micro-evolution, and made no claims regarding even the specific existence of macro-evolution

the reason most scientists (note, not all, i personally know scientists who are believers...im not against science at all, like someone else said, its aim to explain the world we live in) say intelligent design cannot be called a theory is because by definition, and theory must be possible to be disproven. within that statement itself, scientists admit that intelligent design cannot be disproven.

as many many people have said, the numbers in propability regarding the big bang and evolution are staggering. i had the number at one point, but dont right now, however, its something like 1 out of 10 to the 27th power, just in order for the 'primordial ooze' to come together to form some form of life.

this point argues nothing, but i find it funny...
regarding that artistic depiction of an ape slowly evolving into an upright standing human (im sure you have seen it...it shows all these steps as the creature seems to be walking forward), almost all scientists on both sides of the issue admit that it is, in fact, a fanciful artist rendition done by a man who had no real scientific background and "probably didnt look much like that"

i should have some more stuff to say tomorrow night

footjoe · Post by **footjoe** » 16 Nov 2005 17:45

those are just animals god created

when he brought 2 animals of everykind on the ark he didnt need to bring evety single species just 2 so when the flood wiped out everything else we are left with these animals today.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 16 Nov 2005 17:55

but toby is right...i think...to all "god made us"-believers.can u tell me were god came from?no?...i thought so...again,no offending

If we're going to have a conversation about evolution/intelligent design theories and whatever, we should definetly try to keep comments like this out. Asking where God came from is kind of sophmoric and trite, and really doesn't get us anywhere.

Sometimes i like to think we are Gods 8th Grade science project that got forgotten about in an old locker!

This will probably trip me out many a times thinking about it stoned.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 16 Nov 2005 18:15

Would you care to site your sources on that one.....

SandWraith · Post by **SandWraith** » 16 Nov 2005 18:17

slapdash21 wrote:as many many people have said, the numbers in propability regarding the big bang and evolution are staggering. i had the number at one point, but dont right now, however, its something like 1 out of 10 to the 27th power, just in order for the 'primordial ooze' to come together to form some form of life.

Yeah, for our planet. It's somewhat naive however to look at the problem with such focus. Life evolved on our planet, one of several planets orbiting one small star out of ~100 billion in one galaxy out of many billion galaxies. Put in that perspective, the formation of life isn't quite as improbable. In fact, there is actually an equation to deal generally with this same principle, called the Drake equation:
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~jh8h/Fou ... drake.html

There are few scientists that I've heard of that believe in creationism (or, on the other hand, refute evolution), but the idea that the superstructure of chemical interactions and molecular bonding can create consciousness-- a proverbial soul-- is the mind-bending thought that has led many scientists to embrace both evolution and a deistic view of god.

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The theory of "intelligent design"

The theory of "intelligent design"

Re: the theorie about "inteligent design"

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster