Anti-Gay Church Protests at GI Funerals
Anti-Gay Church Protests at GI Funerals
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050828/D8C8JGIG0.html
SMYRNA, Tenn. (AP) - Members of a church say God is punishing American soldiers for defending a country that harbors gays, and they brought their anti-gay message to the funerals Saturday of two Tennessee soldiers killed in Iraq.
The church members were met with scorn from local residents. They chased the church members cars' down a highway, waving flags and screaming "God bless America."
"My husband is over there, so I'm here to show my support," 41-year-old Connie Ditmore said as she waved and American flag and as tears came to her eyes. "To do this at a funeral is disrespectful of a family, no matter what your beliefs are."
The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas, contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws.
The church members carried signs and shouted things such as "God hates fags" and "God hates you."
About 10 church members protested near Smyrna United Methodist Church and nearly 20 stood outside the National Guard Armory in Ashland City. Members have demonstrated at other soldier funerals across the nation.
The funerals were for Staff Sgt. Asbury Fred Hawn II, 35, in Smyrna and Spc. Gary Reese Jr., 22, in Ashland City. Both were members of the Tennessee National Guard.
Hundreds of Smyrna and Ashland City residents and families of other soldiers turned out at both sites to counter the message the Westboro Baptist members brought.
So many counterdemonstrators were gathered in Ashland City that police, sheriff's deputies and state troopers were brought in to control traffic and protect the protesters.
The church members held protesting permits, and counterprotesters in Smyrna turned their backs to Westboro Baptist members until time expired on the protest permits.
"If they were protesting the government, I might even join them," Danny Cotton, 56, said amid cries of "get out of our town" and "get out of our country."
"But for them to come during the worst time for this family - it's just wrong."
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Good to see the Christian spirit is alive and well and that God didn't give us free will for nothing...
SMYRNA, Tenn. (AP) - Members of a church say God is punishing American soldiers for defending a country that harbors gays, and they brought their anti-gay message to the funerals Saturday of two Tennessee soldiers killed in Iraq.
The church members were met with scorn from local residents. They chased the church members cars' down a highway, waving flags and screaming "God bless America."
"My husband is over there, so I'm here to show my support," 41-year-old Connie Ditmore said as she waved and American flag and as tears came to her eyes. "To do this at a funeral is disrespectful of a family, no matter what your beliefs are."
The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas, contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws.
The church members carried signs and shouted things such as "God hates fags" and "God hates you."
About 10 church members protested near Smyrna United Methodist Church and nearly 20 stood outside the National Guard Armory in Ashland City. Members have demonstrated at other soldier funerals across the nation.
The funerals were for Staff Sgt. Asbury Fred Hawn II, 35, in Smyrna and Spc. Gary Reese Jr., 22, in Ashland City. Both were members of the Tennessee National Guard.
Hundreds of Smyrna and Ashland City residents and families of other soldiers turned out at both sites to counter the message the Westboro Baptist members brought.
So many counterdemonstrators were gathered in Ashland City that police, sheriff's deputies and state troopers were brought in to control traffic and protect the protesters.
The church members held protesting permits, and counterprotesters in Smyrna turned their backs to Westboro Baptist members until time expired on the protest permits.
"If they were protesting the government, I might even join them," Danny Cotton, 56, said amid cries of "get out of our town" and "get out of our country."
"But for them to come during the worst time for this family - it's just wrong."
---
Good to see the Christian spirit is alive and well and that God didn't give us free will for nothing...
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Seath
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that's the dumbest part of the whole article.The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws.
I don't like a country where churches are as easy to start up as mcdonalds franchises.
Last edited by Seath on 27 Nov 2005 11:33, edited 1 time in total.
I think talking about Phelps is sort of on topic.
Phelps is neither the embodiment of the Christian spirit nor the American spirit. He is evil, and I'm not exaggerating at all when I say I think the world would be a much better place if he had not been born into it.
I knew it was Fred Phelps from reading the first sentence. If you research this man at all, no matter what your beliefs are I think it's pretty easy to agree that he represents evil instead of good. I did a research paper on him a few years ago and the stuff that turned up on him made me want to wretch.
He says this type of stuff:
-ONLY GOD'S ELECT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO BELIEVE.
-THE SODOMITES' ONLY HOPE IS TO HAVE THE UNAMBIGUOUS TRUTH PREACHED TO THEM, AND PERHAPS GOD WILL SOFTEN THEIR HEARTS AND GRANT THEM REPENTANCE TO DEPART FROM THEIR SIN AND NAME THE NAME OF CHRIST. NOT VERY LIKELY, THOUGH, SINCE GOD HAS GIVEN THEM UP.
-GodHatesFags.com en español!
This bunch of stuff is what I wrote a paper on:
"Shepard, a 21-year-old, met Aaron James McKinney and Russell Arthur Henderson in a bar. After he confided to them that he was gay, they deceived him into leaving with them in their car. He was robbed, brutally beaten, tied to a fence and left to die. McKinney and Henderson also found out his address, intending to burglarize his home. Shepard was discovered 18 hours later, alive and unconscious.
Shepard's injuries were a fracture from the back of his head to the front of his right ear. He also had catastrophic brain stem damage, which affected the body's ability to regulate heartbeat, body temperature, and other vital signs . There were also about 12 small lacerations around the head, face and neck. The injuries were deemed too severe to operate. Shepard never regained consciousness and remained on full life support. He died at 12:53 a.m. on October 12 at Poudre Valley Hospital in Fort Collins, Colorado.
The blood on Shepard's face had been partially washed away by tears, indicating that he had been conscious, for some time, after the beating. He had been pistol-whipped 18 times with a .357-caliber Magnum.
Police apprehended McKinney and Henderson shortly thereafter, finding the bloody gun as well as the victim's shoes and credit card in their truck. The two murderers had attempted to get alibis from their girlfriends."
"Matthew's funeral was held on Friday, October 16, 1998, touched a lot of people all over the world. The tragic story of this gentle soul has touched the hearts of people across America, and throughout the World."
Phelps and his supporters picketed Shepard's funeral, as well as the trial of his assailants. After many years, when the family thought that Phelps had found another "demon to slay," this came up in the media:
"Monument from Hell, Nov. 11, 2003
The Rev. Fred Phelps is a walking migraine for Casper, Wyo. When native son Matthew Shepard was beaten to death five years ago by homophobes, Phelps picketed his funeral, screaming, "God hates fags!" as Shepard's grieving parents entered the church. Now the Kansas reverend wants to put up a 6-foot-tall monument in Casper's Central Park. A bronze plaque on the monument would read:
Matthew Shepard Entered Hell October 12, 1998, at age 21 in Defiance of God's Warning: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22
Cities are hardly obligated to let private groups build monuments in public parks, so ordinarily it would be easy to get rid of Phelps. But since 1965, Casper Central Park has been home to a granite replica of the Ten Commandments donated by the local Fraternal Order of Eagles. That poses a problem for Casper, because if a city wants to open up its property to the messages of private religious groups, it had better be prepared to welcome all of them, however unfortunate. It doesn't solve the problem, as Casper is now attempting to argue, for a city to try to collect and display the monuments it considers historically significant, put them up together, then reject the rest. Picking and choosing between monuments because of their subject matter is just as risky, when it comes to claims of government discrimination, as choosing among them based on their point of view."
Eventually the city decided to take town the 10 Commandments and have a private party display it in their yard (or something like that) so that they would not have to display Phelp's monument.
Phelps is neither the embodiment of the Christian spirit nor the American spirit. He is evil, and I'm not exaggerating at all when I say I think the world would be a much better place if he had not been born into it.
I knew it was Fred Phelps from reading the first sentence. If you research this man at all, no matter what your beliefs are I think it's pretty easy to agree that he represents evil instead of good. I did a research paper on him a few years ago and the stuff that turned up on him made me want to wretch.
He says this type of stuff:
-ONLY GOD'S ELECT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO BELIEVE.
-THE SODOMITES' ONLY HOPE IS TO HAVE THE UNAMBIGUOUS TRUTH PREACHED TO THEM, AND PERHAPS GOD WILL SOFTEN THEIR HEARTS AND GRANT THEM REPENTANCE TO DEPART FROM THEIR SIN AND NAME THE NAME OF CHRIST. NOT VERY LIKELY, THOUGH, SINCE GOD HAS GIVEN THEM UP.
-GodHatesFags.com en español!
This bunch of stuff is what I wrote a paper on:
"Shepard, a 21-year-old, met Aaron James McKinney and Russell Arthur Henderson in a bar. After he confided to them that he was gay, they deceived him into leaving with them in their car. He was robbed, brutally beaten, tied to a fence and left to die. McKinney and Henderson also found out his address, intending to burglarize his home. Shepard was discovered 18 hours later, alive and unconscious.
Shepard's injuries were a fracture from the back of his head to the front of his right ear. He also had catastrophic brain stem damage, which affected the body's ability to regulate heartbeat, body temperature, and other vital signs . There were also about 12 small lacerations around the head, face and neck. The injuries were deemed too severe to operate. Shepard never regained consciousness and remained on full life support. He died at 12:53 a.m. on October 12 at Poudre Valley Hospital in Fort Collins, Colorado.
The blood on Shepard's face had been partially washed away by tears, indicating that he had been conscious, for some time, after the beating. He had been pistol-whipped 18 times with a .357-caliber Magnum.
Police apprehended McKinney and Henderson shortly thereafter, finding the bloody gun as well as the victim's shoes and credit card in their truck. The two murderers had attempted to get alibis from their girlfriends."
"Matthew's funeral was held on Friday, October 16, 1998, touched a lot of people all over the world. The tragic story of this gentle soul has touched the hearts of people across America, and throughout the World."
Phelps and his supporters picketed Shepard's funeral, as well as the trial of his assailants. After many years, when the family thought that Phelps had found another "demon to slay," this came up in the media:
"Monument from Hell, Nov. 11, 2003
The Rev. Fred Phelps is a walking migraine for Casper, Wyo. When native son Matthew Shepard was beaten to death five years ago by homophobes, Phelps picketed his funeral, screaming, "God hates fags!" as Shepard's grieving parents entered the church. Now the Kansas reverend wants to put up a 6-foot-tall monument in Casper's Central Park. A bronze plaque on the monument would read:
Matthew Shepard Entered Hell October 12, 1998, at age 21 in Defiance of God's Warning: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22
Cities are hardly obligated to let private groups build monuments in public parks, so ordinarily it would be easy to get rid of Phelps. But since 1965, Casper Central Park has been home to a granite replica of the Ten Commandments donated by the local Fraternal Order of Eagles. That poses a problem for Casper, because if a city wants to open up its property to the messages of private religious groups, it had better be prepared to welcome all of them, however unfortunate. It doesn't solve the problem, as Casper is now attempting to argue, for a city to try to collect and display the monuments it considers historically significant, put them up together, then reject the rest. Picking and choosing between monuments because of their subject matter is just as risky, when it comes to claims of government discrimination, as choosing among them based on their point of view."
Eventually the city decided to take town the 10 Commandments and have a private party display it in their yard (or something like that) so that they would not have to display Phelp's monument.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Emily Kulczyk
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BainbridgeShred
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I don't like a country that denies someone total religious freedom.I don't like a country where churches are as easy to start up as mcdonalds franchises.
The bolded part is where it gets misleading. The two dudes beat Sheppard because they needed money for drugs, not because the dude was gay. The two guys also had been on a meth binge for the last week, and hadn't slept in five days. Crank is a hell of a drug, and the kind of rage it instills in you is awesome. People beat the shit out of friends/family members for no reason when they're coming off of meth binges."Shepard, a 21-year-old, met Aaron James McKinney and Russell Arthur Henderson in a bar. After he confided to them that he was gay, they deceived him into leaving with them in their car. He was robbed, brutally beaten, tied to a fence and left to die. McKinney and Henderson also found out his address, intending to burglarize his home. Shepard was discovered 18 hours later, alive and unconscious.
Also, it kind of pisses me off how everyone matryized Matthew after this whole inncident. Dude was a frequent drug user himself, and was HIV positive with thoughts of suicide.
Not really sure what my point is. Just getting the facts straight.

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BainbridgeShred
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I moved this to Discussion because I'm ready to fight.
just kidding?
Dan, where did you get those facts from?
Jeremy, do you mind that this thread's subject has morphed, or would you like it to be a separate thread?
Dan, where did you get those facts from?
Jeremy, do you mind that this thread's subject has morphed, or would you like it to be a separate thread?
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Emily Kulczyk
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BainbridgeShred
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No need to worry about Jeremy. It's pretty much protocol for me to make his lame threads interesting.
Moxie, as far as facts go, it's pretty much common knowledge among people who have looked at the Matthew Shepard case closely.
Case in point, to prove that he was wildly overtaken with rage, the reason the two guys got caught was because after they beat the shit out of dude, they went to his house to go rob more of his shit and got into a fight with some guys who were vandalizing cars. The dude who was mainly responsible for killing Shepard (Aaron McKinney) actually got another rage spell and cracked one of the vandalizers skulls before getting hit in the head with a bat. A cop happened on the scene and everyone split, but the cop got McKinney and then saw the .357 in the back of his truck that he had used to beat Shepard with.
Basically it just makes sense. Meth is one of the most addictive drugs on the market, and users will do anything to get a fix. It also makes sense that he was overtaken with rage as opposed to doing it as a hate crime, because as I mentioned above, the dude couldn't help but getting into another fight right after he beat Shepard.
The media basically just bought into the hate crime thing because a crime like that is definetly going to garner more attention then just a random beating/robbery. Also, the media is generally very tolerant of gays, so it only makes sense that they were looking for a poster boy for gay-rights stuff.
A former Laramie (The place the crime happened) police officer, Ben Fritzen, even said, "Matthew Shepard's sexual preference or sexual orientation certainly wasn't the motive in the homicide...If it wasn't Shepard, they would have found another easy target. What it came down to really is drugs and money and two punks that were out looking for it."
The reason the hate crime theory was so set in stone in the publics eye was because McKinney's prosecutors thought they'd have a better case if they told the jury that McKinney flipping out and killing Matthew was the result of Matthew putting his hand on McKinney's leg. McKinney had had a childhood full of homosexual abuse at the hands of his mom's boyfriends, so really the theory was pretty sound. Not that it mattered much anyways, as both dudes ended up getting two life sentences.
CASE CLOSED
Moxie, as far as facts go, it's pretty much common knowledge among people who have looked at the Matthew Shepard case closely.
Case in point, to prove that he was wildly overtaken with rage, the reason the two guys got caught was because after they beat the shit out of dude, they went to his house to go rob more of his shit and got into a fight with some guys who were vandalizing cars. The dude who was mainly responsible for killing Shepard (Aaron McKinney) actually got another rage spell and cracked one of the vandalizers skulls before getting hit in the head with a bat. A cop happened on the scene and everyone split, but the cop got McKinney and then saw the .357 in the back of his truck that he had used to beat Shepard with.
Basically it just makes sense. Meth is one of the most addictive drugs on the market, and users will do anything to get a fix. It also makes sense that he was overtaken with rage as opposed to doing it as a hate crime, because as I mentioned above, the dude couldn't help but getting into another fight right after he beat Shepard.
The media basically just bought into the hate crime thing because a crime like that is definetly going to garner more attention then just a random beating/robbery. Also, the media is generally very tolerant of gays, so it only makes sense that they were looking for a poster boy for gay-rights stuff.
A former Laramie (The place the crime happened) police officer, Ben Fritzen, even said, "Matthew Shepard's sexual preference or sexual orientation certainly wasn't the motive in the homicide...If it wasn't Shepard, they would have found another easy target. What it came down to really is drugs and money and two punks that were out looking for it."
The reason the hate crime theory was so set in stone in the publics eye was because McKinney's prosecutors thought they'd have a better case if they told the jury that McKinney flipping out and killing Matthew was the result of Matthew putting his hand on McKinney's leg. McKinney had had a childhood full of homosexual abuse at the hands of his mom's boyfriends, so really the theory was pretty sound. Not that it mattered much anyways, as both dudes ended up getting two life sentences.
CASE CLOSED

W E B S I T E ?
Edit: And it doesn't matter if it was a hate crime or not. The thing I was focusing on was Phelps' treatment of Matthew starting at the time of his death. And it doesn't make their crime any less horrendous.
Edit: And it doesn't matter if it was a hate crime or not. The thing I was focusing on was Phelps' treatment of Matthew starting at the time of his death. And it doesn't make their crime any less horrendous.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Emily Kulczyk
Emily Kulczyk
My question: What does Matt Shepard's death have to do with the two GI's funerals? Please, let's get this back on topic. If you want to have a thread dedicated to the Matt Shepard discussion, shouldn't a new one be made?
Anywho, the actions of the Reverend really piss me off and disgust me. There was no call for his shenanigans. I'd rather people practice religion freely, but this is ridiculous and not what the forefathers of America meant by freedom of religion.
I do find it ironic that the members of that church "chapter" are all related. I bet most of them have the name Cletus, too.
Anywho, the actions of the Reverend really piss me off and disgust me. There was no call for his shenanigans. I'd rather people practice religion freely, but this is ridiculous and not what the forefathers of America meant by freedom of religion.
I do find it ironic that the members of that church "chapter" are all related. I bet most of them have the name Cletus, too.
Sam Mayer
"Son, a woman is like a beer. They smell good, they look good, you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" - Homer Simpson
"Son, a woman is like a beer. They smell good, they look good, you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" - Homer Simpson
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BainbridgeShred
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http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685page=1W E B S I T E ?
What happened to the "fight" you were so ready for. Don't be mad and change your story because I shut you down before you could even begin.Edit: And it doesn't matter if it was a hate crime or not. The thing I was focusing on was Phelps' treatment of Matthew starting at the time of his death. And it doesn't make their crime any less horrendous.
The only reason I started talking about Shepard was because in your paper you basically claim that he was attacked because he was gay. This is just one of my little pet peeve kinda things that most people assume are true because it's been said a thousand times, and I like to educate people like you because I'm a nice guy. He was made into the poster boy for gay rights because he supposedly was killed because of his orientation, when in actuality he was killed by two junkies looking to do some bumps.
I hoped to avoid this all by putting a little disclaimer in at the end of my original post, but I guess it didn't work.
I know... Clearly.And it doesn't make their crime any less horrendous.
Nothing. Get off my dick.My question: What does Matt Shepard's death have to do with the two GI's funerals?

Congratulations!!!!!
You have successfully turned a topic about an anti-gay psycho into one defending homophobes. You present the valid point that Matthew Shepard was not killed because of homophobia, but completely miss the point which was originally being discussed. Rev. Phelps himself turned the Matthew Sheppard case into one of homophobia, regardless of the actions of some dumbass meth-heads.
Which I assume was the original reason for Emily's news article.
So get off this topics dick, unless you want to continue indirectly defending a monster.
You have successfully turned a topic about an anti-gay psycho into one defending homophobes. You present the valid point that Matthew Shepard was not killed because of homophobia, but completely miss the point which was originally being discussed. Rev. Phelps himself turned the Matthew Sheppard case into one of homophobia, regardless of the actions of some dumbass meth-heads.
Which I assume was the original reason for Emily's news article.
So get off this topics dick, unless you want to continue indirectly defending a monster.
Can the name-calling stop?
Dan, I'm still in the dark about that article because the link you posted took me to ABCnews page that does not exist anymore.
Adam, you were right about the reason for my orig. post.
), so I don't see that you've done anything to any of the views that I have in this thread at all.
Dan, I'm still in the dark about that article because the link you posted took me to ABCnews page that does not exist anymore.
Adam, you were right about the reason for my orig. post.
I put up quotes from news sites, and you argued with the way they were phrased. I was in no way backing down when I said that it doesn't matter if it was a hate crime or not. I hadn't said it was one, did I? I asked for where you got your information (which I still haven't seen proof ofBainbridgeShred wrote:What happened to the "fight" you were so ready for. Don't be mad and change your story because I shut you down before you could even begin.
What words of mine gave you that idea that I "basically claimed" that? I wasn't even focusing on that. I was saying that this boy died in a horrific way that no one deserves. The "tears washing his blood away" part is what I thought people should take away from that part of the story.BainbridgeShred wrote:The only reason I started talking about Shepard was because in your paper you basically claim that he was attacked because he was gay.
I like nice people.BainbridgeShred wrote: I'm a nice guy.
That's opinion. Yes, his mother is anti-hate crimes. And maybe she does think that his death was caused by two homophobes who were out to slay an innocent gay person. But I wouldn't have ever known about this case if it weren't for Phelps and his monument. He was the one who really made Matthew a symbol to many people, because many people were called to defend this boy who couldn't defend himself or his name. I think he's the "poster boy" because Phelps forced him into that position when Phelps decided to attack him for being gay. But again, that was just my opinion.BainbridgeShred wrote:He was made into the poster boy for gay rights because he supposedly was killed because of his orientation, when in actuality he was killed by two junkies looking to do some bumps.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Emily Kulczyk
Emily Kulczyk
My god this is a silly arguement.
The fact is that this guy was gay and he was brutally murdered and that some fuckers than protested about the fact that he was gay at his funeral. It doesn't matter why he was killed - I don't understand what point you're trying to make except possibly you just want to argue about something.
The fact is that this guy was gay and he was brutally murdered and that some fuckers than protested about the fact that he was gay at his funeral. It doesn't matter why he was killed - I don't understand what point you're trying to make except possibly you just want to argue about something.
No you're wrong. It's a Christian American conspiracy to take over the world and kill all Muslims because they're racist and have links to net footbag and Steve Blough. They should learn to play touch football and run angles better. Touch football is all about angles. Also I like beer.Nagasake wrote:Come on, Jeremy. Possibly?? This is Dan we're talking about after all.Jeremy wrote:... except possibly you just want to argue about something.
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Wow, there is great stuff in this this thread. Where to start???
What's the big deal about Phelps going to the G.I.'s funerals anyway?
Don't you see? He was conducting a vigil to honor those soldiers.
Our soldiers fight and die, so that raving lunatics have the freedom to use the funerals as photo ops, to spew hatred toward all kinds of things.
We should all praise Phelps' bravery and patriotism for his dissent against the mainstream.
You would think we have seen enough of these vigils , to get used to this type of behavior, jeeeesh.
-0n
What's the big deal about Phelps going to the G.I.'s funerals anyway?
Don't you see? He was conducting a vigil to honor those soldiers.
Our soldiers fight and die, so that raving lunatics have the freedom to use the funerals as photo ops, to spew hatred toward all kinds of things.
We should all praise Phelps' bravery and patriotism for his dissent against the mainstream.
You would think we have seen enough of these vigils , to get used to this type of behavior, jeeeesh.
-0n
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
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-nathan
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-nathan
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I seem to remember reading about this a long time ago so I have to check...and ask a question.
My ongoing research finds a plethora of Matthew Shepard Anti-Gay-Hate websites , foundations, and books ...ALL probably total BS, if built on the homophobia that didnt occur relating to his death.
I realize why this hoax is so valuable, and maybe why Jeremy posted the Phelps story to begin with.
It helps program a few ideas into the publics' minds:
1. If you don't approve and celebrate homosexuality, you are exactly like Rev Phelps. You actually helped murder Matthew Shepard with your beliefs.
2. If you don't approve and celebrate homosexuality, you should feel guilty about it.
3. If you are a Christian, then you agree with Phelps,and you murdered Matthew, and you should certainly feel guilty about it.
More later...
-n
p.s. Was anyone here forced to undergo sensitivity training, or take classes in tolerance, or made to read a book about the Matthew Shepard Hate crime in high school or college?
Just wondering how much re-education went on after that incident.
My ongoing research finds a plethora of Matthew Shepard Anti-Gay-Hate websites , foundations, and books ...ALL probably total BS, if built on the homophobia that didnt occur relating to his death.
I realize why this hoax is so valuable, and maybe why Jeremy posted the Phelps story to begin with.
It helps program a few ideas into the publics' minds:
1. If you don't approve and celebrate homosexuality, you are exactly like Rev Phelps. You actually helped murder Matthew Shepard with your beliefs.
2. If you don't approve and celebrate homosexuality, you should feel guilty about it.
3. If you are a Christian, then you agree with Phelps,and you murdered Matthew, and you should certainly feel guilty about it.
More later...
-n
p.s. Was anyone here forced to undergo sensitivity training, or take classes in tolerance, or made to read a book about the Matthew Shepard Hate crime in high school or college?
Just wondering how much re-education went on after that incident.
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
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-nathan
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-nathan
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BainbridgeShred
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http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=3Dan, I'm still in the dark about that article because the link you posted took me to ABCnews page that does not exist anymore.
Try again
Frankly, I thought what you quoted was part of your essay, not something you ripped from a site.down when I said that it doesn't matter if it was a hate crime or not. I hadn't said it was one, did I? I asked for where you got your information (which I still haven't seen proof of ), so I don't see that you've done anything to any of the views that I have in this thread at all.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe Shepard's mom is just an idiot and won't look at the clear evidence that her son was not murdered for his sexual orientation, but for the 30 bucks in his wallet. A more likely scenario however, is that his mom saw the potential to make a big media issue out of this as to advocate something she cares about (Assuming she does seeing as her son himself was homosexual), and pounced on the opportunity.That's opinion. Yes, his mother is anti-hate crimes. And maybe she does think that his death was caused by two homophobes who were out to slay an innocent gay person. But I wouldn't have ever known about this case if it weren't for Phelps and his monument. He was the one who really made Matthew a symbol to many people, because many people were called to defend this boy who couldn't defend himself or his name. I think he's the "poster boy" because Phelps forced him into that position when Phelps decided to attack him for being gay. But again, that was just my opinion.
And no, Phelps didn't force Matthew's death to become as metaphoric as it did. Phelps' actions were mearly an after effect of the anti-homophobe firestorm (One that I loosely support) that was created in light of Matthew's death. This guy Phelps is simply an opportunist. He takes whatever big story their is on the day (Which right now, is Iraq and in 1998 was the Matthew's killing) and capitalizes off it by making incredibly remorseless and insensitive remarks. Tell me true Moxie, do you really believe Phelps would have traveled from Kansas to Wyoming to picket Matthew's funeral if he hadn't known that it would garner tons of attention for him and his back water church? Matthew Shepard was the story of the day long before Fred Phelps was. Any homophobe could come out and say something insensitive about a gay-related hate crime (Which occur often, with 6 deaths and 1,430 incidences in 2003, a higher number of deaths than racial hate-crime deaths) and not garner any attention at all. Matthew Shepard's case was different because, as clearly shown in the article on page 3, Shepard's friends contacted the Attorney General's office and the media claiming that Shepard's death was the result of homophobia. The media ran with it, as I talked about in my original post, because generally the media is sympathetic to the cause of gay rights, and wanted a poster-boy to advance their views. Once again, case closed.

