Stanley "Tookie" Williams

DoctorJay · Post by **DoctorJay** » 01 Dec 2005 13:36

Tookie Williams is the founder of the gang the crips.

He was sent to Death Row for 4 times murderer . In prison he started to write books about gangs and violence and so he is trying to improve the current situtation .

He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Price several times .

His execution should happen on the 13 of December.
The governor Schwarzenegger is thinking about pardoning him .

What do you think ?

If you want to help him than sign an online petition.

You will find some information on www.tookie.com

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 01 Dec 2005 13:44

Lynch him!

Any links about the topic?

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 01 Dec 2005 13:53

Nevermind.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 01 Dec 2005 15:31

This is a stupidly easy issue to side on. It basicially comes down to how we can get Tookie repay this debt to society. The choices are either

A: Let him live so that he can continue to do good works for the community.

OR

B: Kill him so we can get some primordal sense of revenge.

Fucking idiots if you can't see which option is better. [/url]

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 01 Dec 2005 15:34

Dan Feary I agree with you.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 01 Dec 2005 17:18

Yeah I read an awesome article about this at the start of the year. I'm completely opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances so of course I'm opposed to this.

There is also a huge amount of evidence that suggests the particular crimes he was found guilty over were crimes he did not commit - although he does admit that has committed crimes of a similar nature so I guess there is some justice of sorts. It's just scary to see how easy it is in the US for people to get sentenced to die for crimes they did not commit - especially due to bad legal representation - as was probably the key factor in Tookie's case.

In any event - I think as Dan said in this case - I don't think it matters if you agree with the death penalty or not - it's clearly in the interests of society not to kill Tookie - even if his sentence is reduced to life imprisonment that would still have a far more positive effect on the world than killing him. There are so few people in the world working towards peace and it would be horrible to lose somebody so committed in such a needless manner.

HG · Post by HG » 01 Dec 2005 17:53

Of course let him leave. I signed.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » 01 Dec 2005 19:06

I think that he should not be killed for any reason. What this man did was wrong but he did pay his debts...so let the man live i signed the petition

carl winslow · Post by **carl winslow** » 07 Dec 2005 09:58

being "nominated" for the nobel peace prize doesnt really mean anything.
but they shouldnt kill him.

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » 07 Dec 2005 11:51

i signed

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 07 Dec 2005 13:53

I bet he hit cripwalk before I did.

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 07 Dec 2005 15:29

mosher wrote:I bet he hit cripwalk before I did.

Yo G...watch yo-self!!! In south-central y'all get capped in da grill fo runnin yo mouth, boi!!!!

Signed the petition BTW.

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 07 Dec 2005 17:21

Thought about signing it, then didn't. I think I'll abstain from signing.

HG · Post by HG » 07 Dec 2005 18:43

Because you're a hooker?

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 08 Dec 2005 01:32

I'm tossed. In general I'm conflicted regarding the Death Penalty.

Here's the deal. California has the Death Penalty. Tookie Williams committed murder, which he was tried and found guilty for. He also appealed straight on up to the US Supreme Court. They upheld the murder and sentencing. He committed the crime and deserves his penalty in the state in which he committed the crime. There is no secret, nor was their that Death was the penalty for murder in California.

People are trying to base his petition for clemency on the things that he has done since being put in prison 24 years ago. The reality is that he still committed the murders and still deserves the penalty for them.

While I believe he has done many great things since then, he is still one of the co-founders of the Crips; a gang that has remained deadly and degenerate for near 30 years. His actions of the past have not resolved themselves by the things he has done since being imprisoned. The people he killed are still dead and hundreds (possibly thousands) more due to the gang he helped to start. Tookie Williams has done great things and probably will continue to do great things if his sentence is commuted. However, it doesn't absolve him of the murders he committed and the appropriate penalty for those murders.

Ultimately, I think it's more about whether or not you believe in the Death Penalty as a reasonable punishment for crimes. While I think it's a horrible penalty, I also think our entire justice and rehabilitation system is a joke . In addition, if someone murdered my daughter, I think an appropriate punishment would be for that bastard to rot in jail until the day I saw fit to kill him myself.

Tough call. I'm not signing the petition just yet.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 08 Dec 2005 01:46

Splint wrote: People are trying to base his petition for clemency on the things that he has done since being put in prison 24 years ago. The reality is that he still committed the murders and still deserves the penalty for them.

This isn't the case at all - he was found guilty with out any physical evidence at all - he maintains that he did not commit the crimes he has been charged with and that it would be fucking stupid of him to have committed those crimes - to which most people agree. The only "evidence" against him was the testimoney's of witnesses that were kept anonymous for their own protection - and who were also people charged for other crimes.

In fact the evidence suggests that he probably didn't kill all the people as they died from different gun wounds and only one weapon was ever found.

Pretty weak stuff to execute somebody with - no matter how many violent things they may have done in their life that they weren't found guilty of.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 08 Dec 2005 09:37

I was wondering when this topic would be put up, with the usual sop about repaying his debt to society.

Since I haven't read all the propaganda declaring him innocent, I will just play the race card.

1. Tookie is black, that is why there is this movement to spare him. The victims were black and Asian if I recall correctly.

If Tookie was white, he would have been executed long ago, for being the vicious racist murderer that he is.

Also, we would see Tookie's "white" picture forever, as an icon to stew inter-racial hatred for perpetuity.

2. Where is the logic?

Why does the black community want to spare Tookie?

Tookie killed black and Asian people.

His gang has killed countless black people.

If released, him, or his entourage (which he will certainly have after all this.) could kill more black people.

Tookie sounds more like a candidate for the 2005 David Duke, Award for Meritorious Service .

------------------------------------

Also, if the Governator bows down to the collection of celebrity debris calling for clemency......
Arnold will have proven what a gelded, girly man he really is.

n

Blackend · Post by **Blackend** » 08 Dec 2005 12:57

Jeremy wrote: This isn't the case at all - he was found guilty with out any physical evidence at all - he maintains that he did not commit the crimes he has been charged with and that it would be fucking stupid of him to have committed those crimes - to which most people agree. The only "evidence" against him was the testimoney's of witnesses that were kept anonymous for their own protection - and who were also people charged for other crimes.

After Williams murdered Owens, he, Darryl, Coward and Sims fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. The robbery netted Williams and his associates approximately $120.00. Once back in Los Angeles, Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens. Williams said that he "didn't want to leave any witnesses." Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people."

Also, how can these people be "anyonymous" and you still know that they've commited "other crimes?" That wouldn't exactly make them anonymous anymore.

Jeremy wrote:In fact the evidence suggests that he probably didn't kill all the people as they died from different gun wounds and only one weapon was ever found.

As Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens, pulling the sawed-off shotgun from under his jacket and told Owens to "shut up and keep walking." While pointing the shotgun at Owens' back, Williams directed him to a back storage room. Not long after, Williams blew out a security camera and then executed Owens, shooting him twice in the back at point blank range as he lay prone on the storage room floor.

...Once inside the private office, Williams, using his shotgun, killed seventy-six year old Yen-I Yang; Williams also killed Yang's wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang; lastly, Williams killed Yang's daughter, forty-three year old Yee-Chen Lin. Williams then removed the currency from the cash register and fled the location.

According to the forensic pathologist, Yen-I Yang suffered two shotgun wounds. One shotgun wound was to his left arm and abdomen. This wound shredded Yen-I's left arm, fractured his ribs, and shattered his spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. The other shotgun wound was to the lower left chest. This wound also fractured ribs and shattered the spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. Moreover, a plastic shotgun shot container and associated wadding were recovered from the base of Yen-I's liver. The pathologist further explained that both of the Yen-I Yang's wounds were inflicted when the end of the muzzle was only feet from Yen-I's body.

Tsai-Shai was shot twice at close range. The pathologist explained that one shotgun wound was to the coccyx or tail bone. Based on the physical characteristics of the wound and the fact that wadding, along with the plastic shot container, were recovered just beneath the skin of this wound, the muzzle of the gun must have been just inches from her body when she was shot and killed. The other shotgun wound was to the anterior abdomen with the charge entering at the navel. At trial, the pathologist testified that the muzzle of the gun was a few feet from Tsai-Shai's body when the shot that caused this wound was fired.

Well, where's this "other gun?" What is this, the Oswald case? There were two gunmen here!? The evidence suggests that in these slayings there was one weapon used. I'd have to say that it looks pretty incriminating. The evidence suggests otherwise.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 09 Dec 2005 21:43

if you go to the website that is mentioned at the start of this topic and read the official forensics report you'll see that it clearly states that at least one of the 4 people died of different gun wounds. This is the official document that was used in court - or at least that's what is claimed on the website. I also read a mainstream magazine article a while ago that said the same thing - possibly bulliten or time.

The witnesses were anonymous at the time of the trial - which obviously makes it hard to defend the claims made against you - if you don't know who is making them. One of the witnesses also later claimed that he was coerced by the police into making the claims.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 12 Dec 2005 13:14

Well, it looks like Arnold will be a 'Terminator' in both movies and real life.