Australian race riots continue for second day
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... rnational/
Look at this mess. Anyone who lives there want to tell us the real story?
This link might be worth a click also
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1529509.htm
-n
Australian race riots continue for second day
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HighDemonslayer
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
- Location: Arizona
Australian race riots continue for second day
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
-----------------------------------
-nathan
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-nathan
-
NotHisRealName
- Post Master General
- Posts: 2527
- Joined: 26 Oct 2002 03:43
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
- Contact:
I'm not up to date with the news much but, as I understand it, there's this whole 'Ausie Pride' thing happening down in Sydney.
Basicly it's a crock of shit because Australia is such a multicultural contry anyway and a clear definition of 'Australian' is blurred behind self deception.
An origional Australian is an Aborigine, not the European 'boat people' that invaded this country over 200 years ago. But... well, with the whole 'Whites are soooo much better than everyone else' attitude that unfortunately exists everywhere in the world... *sigh*.
I'm glad I was born in New Zealand (I moved to Australia in 1988, at age 10, having lived most of my life here, now), because I would rather not be associated as being an Australian if hate bread violence is what being an Australian is all about.
Basicly it's a crock of shit because Australia is such a multicultural contry anyway and a clear definition of 'Australian' is blurred behind self deception.
An origional Australian is an Aborigine, not the European 'boat people' that invaded this country over 200 years ago. But... well, with the whole 'Whites are soooo much better than everyone else' attitude that unfortunately exists everywhere in the world... *sigh*.
I'm glad I was born in New Zealand (I moved to Australia in 1988, at age 10, having lived most of my life here, now), because I would rather not be associated as being an Australian if hate bread violence is what being an Australian is all about.
yeah it's pretty disgusting. I'm pretty sure all the footbaggers in Australia are fine.
It's a little more complicated than is being put forward but basically it's pretty clear that the views expressed by the racists in Sydney are in the minority and pretty much the rest of Australia has expressed disgust and isn't going to put up with that shit.
Maybe when I have some more time I'll write up my full opinion on the thing.
It's a little more complicated than is being put forward but basically it's pretty clear that the views expressed by the racists in Sydney are in the minority and pretty much the rest of Australia has expressed disgust and isn't going to put up with that shit.
Maybe when I have some more time I'll write up my full opinion on the thing.
What gets me is that there's been some outrage that some of the Australians of Lebanese decent were apparently burning the Australian flag at a rally. Like Oh god. And the day before 5000 Australians chanted racist slogans and tried to beat up anyone who looked foreign while either being draped in the flag or "in the name of the Aussie flag". Trashing what our flag stands for is much worse than just trashing our flag (which is just a piece of cloth anyway).
The outrage about the Lebanese Australians trashing Cronalla last night is pretty out there too. It's like:
"We had this massive rally and we told those Australians that were born here but are of Lebanese decent to go back to Lebanon or we'll punch their heads in"
"But then the evil bastards came back and trashed our cars and stuff. Like it's as if we really offended them or something. Evil bastards. You'd have to be really evil to do something like that."
At the end of the day what you reap is what you sow.
The outrage about the Lebanese Australians trashing Cronalla last night is pretty out there too. It's like:
"We had this massive rally and we told those Australians that were born here but are of Lebanese decent to go back to Lebanon or we'll punch their heads in"
"But then the evil bastards came back and trashed our cars and stuff. Like it's as if we really offended them or something. Evil bastards. You'd have to be really evil to do something like that."
At the end of the day what you reap is what you sow.
So here are my thoughts for people outside of Australia:
First this is basically what has happened:
A few weeks ago between 1 and 4 volunteer surf life savers were bashed at a beach. Probably only 1 but it has varied from different reports. As yet it is unclear why they were bashed. The people who bashed them have been arrested and charged with the assaults. The matter could have and would have been dealt adequately by the law.
However after the attack the media - especially talk back radio in Sydney - started running a story that the attacks were race based and made a big deal out of the fact that the two attackers were "middle eastern" or "Lebanese". I haven't heard any confirmation as to specific race of the attackers but it seems likely that this is the case. There is certainly no evidence as to the motives of the attacks and when you consider how many assaults occur in Australia it is of no surprise that eventually a Lebanese person will assault a white Australian with no racial motives.
In response to what became perceived by ignorant and stupid people as some kind of racial attack on "Aussies" a demonstration for "peace" was planned and took place at the beach where the attack occurred. At that demonstration large amounts of alcohol were consumed and white supremacist groups and at least one far right conservative political party manipulated the crowd into rioting and beating up people who "appeared of middle eastern descent". It's pretty clear that these attacks were based around a lot of ignorance as any body who was not typically "white" looking were beaten up. This is the riot you've probably seen on the news. It was mainly attended by youths from the area.
Various groups of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean groups responded to those riots with more violence and vandalism over the next couple of nights however it now appears things are calming down.
I believe there are a couple of important factors in the riots:
1. The Media:
I almost completely blame the media for these riots and attacks. It was the media that first turned the initial attacks into racial attacks and it was the media that talked up those attacks in the build up to the riots. It was then the media that blew the riot way out of proportion - giving the Middle Eastern and other non white groups a sense that they had been defeated so that they retaliated in a very macho manner to show that they wouldn't be intimidated etc. If commercial media - which is always trying to get people to watch and listen with dramatic and controversial stories - did not exist in Australia there is no way these riots would have ever happened. There would have been the attack on the beach arrests and the issue would be over.
2. Alcohol:
Australia likes drinking. A recent study shows that 1 in 6 people between the ages of 15 and 25 consumes at least 20 standard drinks in a single night at least once a month. There can be no doubt that the initial riot was caused in a great part by the amount of alcohol consumed before the violence started.
3. Anti Authoritarianism:
Australia is a country that was founded (or invaded) by criminals. Although most Australians are actually decedents of immigrants who came later, we have always (since the invasion) had a very strong anti-authoritarian view. When you look at the events that have shaped Australia culturally and our cultural icons there is a clear sense of this. The Eureka Stockade (google this) and bush rangers like Ned Kelly are a good example of this - as are many Australian movies - Malcom, Breaker Morant, Bliss, The Bank, The Castle etc.
I think this culture of anti-authoritarianism has definitely played a key part both in the initial riot and the retaliations. Although Australia is very multicultural - I think part of our identity is still definitely opposing authority. I also think it's very much part of our culture - and you can see this with events like Gallipoli (ww1) - to not be intimidated and to fight for your mates etc. Surely there was a strong aspect of this happening in all the riots.
4. Ignorance:
I think its safe to say that both sides of the riots are fairly ignorant and badly informed people - probably with low levels of education. Both sides perceive a threat and they are too simple minded to understand that people of same race aren't the same people. I think a fairly typical reaction to any perceived threat is to react against it. In this case because they are young and don't know any better, the response was violence. The suburbs where this has been happening are not wealthy suburbs and I think low levels of education are definitely a significant factor in the riots.
I know I often dis Australia's government but I want to make it clear that I love this country, I would rate our current government (which I despise) in my top 5 favourite governments - although I admit I don't have the same knowledge of other governments that I have of our governments (The other countries are NZ, Chile, Costa Rica and Rep of Ireland with a lot of honourable mentions in Europe and Canada). The racial tension that we're seeing at the moment in Sydney is not being seen anywhere else. I don't even think Sydney is the most multicultural city in Australia - I think Melbourne has a much larger population of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean people (as do all cities in Australia) and we aren't seeing any problems elsewhere. I put my blame almost completely towards the media who created this riot and are probably benefiting from it as well. I believe that ignorant people were manipulated by the media into thinking that their way of life was being threatened - which it isn't - and acted in a stupid manner because they were drunk and taken advantage of by people with archaic political views. I don't excuse or tolerate the racism - these people might be ignorant but I still hope they all get arrested and charged in the hope that they learn something. I'm just trying to give my analyse of what happened and why.
First this is basically what has happened:
A few weeks ago between 1 and 4 volunteer surf life savers were bashed at a beach. Probably only 1 but it has varied from different reports. As yet it is unclear why they were bashed. The people who bashed them have been arrested and charged with the assaults. The matter could have and would have been dealt adequately by the law.
However after the attack the media - especially talk back radio in Sydney - started running a story that the attacks were race based and made a big deal out of the fact that the two attackers were "middle eastern" or "Lebanese". I haven't heard any confirmation as to specific race of the attackers but it seems likely that this is the case. There is certainly no evidence as to the motives of the attacks and when you consider how many assaults occur in Australia it is of no surprise that eventually a Lebanese person will assault a white Australian with no racial motives.
In response to what became perceived by ignorant and stupid people as some kind of racial attack on "Aussies" a demonstration for "peace" was planned and took place at the beach where the attack occurred. At that demonstration large amounts of alcohol were consumed and white supremacist groups and at least one far right conservative political party manipulated the crowd into rioting and beating up people who "appeared of middle eastern descent". It's pretty clear that these attacks were based around a lot of ignorance as any body who was not typically "white" looking were beaten up. This is the riot you've probably seen on the news. It was mainly attended by youths from the area.
Various groups of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean groups responded to those riots with more violence and vandalism over the next couple of nights however it now appears things are calming down.
I believe there are a couple of important factors in the riots:
1. The Media:
I almost completely blame the media for these riots and attacks. It was the media that first turned the initial attacks into racial attacks and it was the media that talked up those attacks in the build up to the riots. It was then the media that blew the riot way out of proportion - giving the Middle Eastern and other non white groups a sense that they had been defeated so that they retaliated in a very macho manner to show that they wouldn't be intimidated etc. If commercial media - which is always trying to get people to watch and listen with dramatic and controversial stories - did not exist in Australia there is no way these riots would have ever happened. There would have been the attack on the beach arrests and the issue would be over.
2. Alcohol:
Australia likes drinking. A recent study shows that 1 in 6 people between the ages of 15 and 25 consumes at least 20 standard drinks in a single night at least once a month. There can be no doubt that the initial riot was caused in a great part by the amount of alcohol consumed before the violence started.
3. Anti Authoritarianism:
Australia is a country that was founded (or invaded) by criminals. Although most Australians are actually decedents of immigrants who came later, we have always (since the invasion) had a very strong anti-authoritarian view. When you look at the events that have shaped Australia culturally and our cultural icons there is a clear sense of this. The Eureka Stockade (google this) and bush rangers like Ned Kelly are a good example of this - as are many Australian movies - Malcom, Breaker Morant, Bliss, The Bank, The Castle etc.
I think this culture of anti-authoritarianism has definitely played a key part both in the initial riot and the retaliations. Although Australia is very multicultural - I think part of our identity is still definitely opposing authority. I also think it's very much part of our culture - and you can see this with events like Gallipoli (ww1) - to not be intimidated and to fight for your mates etc. Surely there was a strong aspect of this happening in all the riots.
4. Ignorance:
I think its safe to say that both sides of the riots are fairly ignorant and badly informed people - probably with low levels of education. Both sides perceive a threat and they are too simple minded to understand that people of same race aren't the same people. I think a fairly typical reaction to any perceived threat is to react against it. In this case because they are young and don't know any better, the response was violence. The suburbs where this has been happening are not wealthy suburbs and I think low levels of education are definitely a significant factor in the riots.
I know I often dis Australia's government but I want to make it clear that I love this country, I would rate our current government (which I despise) in my top 5 favourite governments - although I admit I don't have the same knowledge of other governments that I have of our governments (The other countries are NZ, Chile, Costa Rica and Rep of Ireland with a lot of honourable mentions in Europe and Canada). The racial tension that we're seeing at the moment in Sydney is not being seen anywhere else. I don't even think Sydney is the most multicultural city in Australia - I think Melbourne has a much larger population of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean people (as do all cities in Australia) and we aren't seeing any problems elsewhere. I put my blame almost completely towards the media who created this riot and are probably benefiting from it as well. I believe that ignorant people were manipulated by the media into thinking that their way of life was being threatened - which it isn't - and acted in a stupid manner because they were drunk and taken advantage of by people with archaic political views. I don't excuse or tolerate the racism - these people might be ignorant but I still hope they all get arrested and charged in the hope that they learn something. I'm just trying to give my analyse of what happened and why.
Thanks for the concern guys. All Sydney shredders are totally fine. The "riot" was isolated to quite a small area. Jeremy summed up everything quite well. The original incident in which a couple of lifesavers were bashed had nothing to do with race until the media picked it up - but that said, the media beat it up that way because they knew there is an audience for racism in this country - a sizeable minority of people who are conditioned to fear difference. My understanding is that there was a gang of youths who happen to be Lebenese, bashing and mugging people in the area. There are a couple of varying reports but they all agree that essentially a lifesaver told some of them to move off the beach so they went and grabbed a bunch of mates, then came back and bashed him. This initial bashing was by no means racist in intent as this gang happily bashed people of all races. Some media elements however wheeled out "experts" who said their lack of respect for the law was somehow a result of their Lebenese culture. Even though the vast majority of Lebenese people are law abiding people who enjoy the same things Australians do: namely beer and bbqs, and even though most if not all of the gang were born and raised in Australia this became a race issue which is totally ridiculous. Unfortunately in the fallout, police have been given more powers to stop and search pedestrians and motorists and sure they've turned up some weapons and caught some trouble-makers, but these powers could easily be abused. In the nights after the riot there were road blocks set up around the area and if you didnt live there you couldnt get in. I'm shocked that such a gross attack on the freedom of sydneysiders is being allowed in the name of "restoring order". The right thing was done by flooding the area with police and having a huge police presence in the last week has definitly prevented any ongoing trouble, but giving them extra powers is a mistake which i fear we will be punished for in the future.
Who wears short shorts?
Dylan Govender.
Dylan Govender.
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HighDemonslayer
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
- Location: Arizona
I was going to comment on how there seems to be these talking points, careful assuring us that the lifeguard beating CERTAINLY had nothing to do with race.
When these type of things happen, it ALWAYS has to do with race. The burden is on the accused, guilty of racism, until they prove their innocence.
Thus, the lifeguard beating was because of his race, until the gang proves otherwise.
Oops, the gang wasn't white, strike those last 3 sentences from the record.
Race politics can be boring sometimes, so let's go at this:
Confiscating a few extra weapons is a good thing right? What's wrong with the police having more powers? A disarmed public needs the government to expand it's powers, because they have to be protected by the government...... every second, of every day.
-n
When these type of things happen, it ALWAYS has to do with race. The burden is on the accused, guilty of racism, until they prove their innocence.
Thus, the lifeguard beating was because of his race, until the gang proves otherwise.
Oops, the gang wasn't white, strike those last 3 sentences from the record.
Race politics can be boring sometimes, so let's go at this:
(....)police have been given more powers to stop and search pedestrians and motorists and sure they've turned up some weapons and caught some trouble-makers(....)
Confiscating a few extra weapons is a good thing right? What's wrong with the police having more powers? A disarmed public needs the government to expand it's powers, because they have to be protected by the government...... every second, of every day.
-n
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
-----------------------------------
-nathan
-----------------------------------
-nathan
Fuck man, when you don't know what you're talking about why do you comment?
It is plainly obvious that the attack of the life gaurd(s) that occured had nothing to do with race. Nobody in Australia on any side of the arguement has claimed that the gangs attacked the life guards because they were white - that wasn't the cause of the riots and nobody believes that to be the case. The racist arguement being put forward is that these gangs of Lebanese people have no respect for Australian culture etc. if the life guards were also Lebanese or of any other race other than white there's a good chance the riots would have taken place. The issue according to the racists was that some Lebanese people beat up a life guard - nobody have raised the issue of the race of the life guard. Surf lifesavers in Australia are volunteers and because we have a very strong beach culture - very highly respected. It's safe to say that 99.99% of people in Australia were disgusted when they heard that a surf lifesaver had been attacked.
Regarding the new police powers - as I understand it - police have always had the power to confiscate weapons. I'm not exactly sure what the new powers are but they are involved with being able to create road blocks, alcohol free zones, close public spaces etc. - which they already had the power to do in some situations but now I think they can do it whenever they like - in particular when they suspect a riot is going to happen rather than in responce to things that have actually happened. I can't say I've been paying a great deal of attention to the new laws. I would say that clearly the problem is not a lack of police powers but initially a lack of police and some more serious social problems and I don't think giving the police more powers will do anything to solve these problems.
I was heartened to hear that one of the talk back radio people who put forward the racist arguement I outlined at the start of this post was asked to take some "voluntary leave" and agreed after continueing to make racist and irresponsible comments after the riots and being condemmed by his own radio station and others.
It is plainly obvious that the attack of the life gaurd(s) that occured had nothing to do with race. Nobody in Australia on any side of the arguement has claimed that the gangs attacked the life guards because they were white - that wasn't the cause of the riots and nobody believes that to be the case. The racist arguement being put forward is that these gangs of Lebanese people have no respect for Australian culture etc. if the life guards were also Lebanese or of any other race other than white there's a good chance the riots would have taken place. The issue according to the racists was that some Lebanese people beat up a life guard - nobody have raised the issue of the race of the life guard. Surf lifesavers in Australia are volunteers and because we have a very strong beach culture - very highly respected. It's safe to say that 99.99% of people in Australia were disgusted when they heard that a surf lifesaver had been attacked.
Regarding the new police powers - as I understand it - police have always had the power to confiscate weapons. I'm not exactly sure what the new powers are but they are involved with being able to create road blocks, alcohol free zones, close public spaces etc. - which they already had the power to do in some situations but now I think they can do it whenever they like - in particular when they suspect a riot is going to happen rather than in responce to things that have actually happened. I can't say I've been paying a great deal of attention to the new laws. I would say that clearly the problem is not a lack of police powers but initially a lack of police and some more serious social problems and I don't think giving the police more powers will do anything to solve these problems.
I was heartened to hear that one of the talk back radio people who put forward the racist arguement I outlined at the start of this post was asked to take some "voluntary leave" and agreed after continueing to make racist and irresponsible comments after the riots and being condemmed by his own radio station and others.
I'm 99.99% sure the initial attack had little to do with race because a) there has been a history of violence by this same group of youths and it has been directed at all races indescriminantly, b) the lifeguard was attacked because he presented himself as a figure of authority to one of the youths.
Yes, police confiscating weapons is a good thing. However Police having the right to move you on for no reason (a power they were given a few years ago), the right to stop and search your person and car for no reason, to close off your street and preventing friends and family entering your neigbourhood for no reason are all not good things. The freedom of the law abiding is being traded away to help protect the freedom they no longer have; its ridiculous. Especially since no sunset clause has been placed on these powers. The police have done a pretty good job, but they didn't need more power, they needed more numbers and a judicial system that backs them up. The reason they got more power is purely political. In our state a new premier has inherited the job and he's thought of as a no-body, who is in over his head. He is using this to get his face on TV and get some tough on crime points.
Yes, police confiscating weapons is a good thing. However Police having the right to move you on for no reason (a power they were given a few years ago), the right to stop and search your person and car for no reason, to close off your street and preventing friends and family entering your neigbourhood for no reason are all not good things. The freedom of the law abiding is being traded away to help protect the freedom they no longer have; its ridiculous. Especially since no sunset clause has been placed on these powers. The police have done a pretty good job, but they didn't need more power, they needed more numbers and a judicial system that backs them up. The reason they got more power is purely political. In our state a new premier has inherited the job and he's thought of as a no-body, who is in over his head. He is using this to get his face on TV and get some tough on crime points.
Who wears short shorts?
Dylan Govender.
Dylan Govender.
-
HighDemonslayer
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
- Location: Arizona
It's never plainly obvious that something is not related to race. Not in today's Politically Contempt societies.
Will that radio guy get fired? rightfully so. But will he be imprisoned?
Do you think he should be imprisoned?
I don't know what kind of racist crap he spewed, but it could get you arrested in France, maybe some other EU countries.
I don't actually support new police powers in Aus. or U.S.A.
Our gelded politicians are to cowardly to use powers they already have, they don't need more.
It was a jab at the public, for being defenseless. The government can institute any new powers they please, and the public is COMPLETELY POWERLESS to stop it.
Oh, you can vote sure <snort> but whomever you elect will have those powers.
The U.S. could be enslaved by new police powers also. Until there is an armed revolt.
Can Aussies even have an armed revolt, if they wanted?
Will that radio guy get fired? rightfully so. But will he be imprisoned?
Do you think he should be imprisoned?
I don't know what kind of racist crap he spewed, but it could get you arrested in France, maybe some other EU countries.
I don't actually support new police powers in Aus. or U.S.A.
Our gelded politicians are to cowardly to use powers they already have, they don't need more.
It was a jab at the public, for being defenseless. The government can institute any new powers they please, and the public is COMPLETELY POWERLESS to stop it.
Oh, you can vote sure <snort> but whomever you elect will have those powers.
The U.S. could be enslaved by new police powers also. Until there is an armed revolt.
Can Aussies even have an armed revolt, if they wanted?
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
-----------------------------------
-nathan
-----------------------------------
-nathan
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HighDemonslayer
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
- Location: Arizona
I disagree, racism is a clearly defined phenomena. Either it is racist or it isn't. In this case the original incident was not an act of racism.
The radio dude will not be fired. The ratings season is over so they'll stow him away until it starts again by which time the whole thing will have blown over.
I think if half the people who complained about politics in countries like the US and Australia (which have strong, working democracies) actually became politically active, you'd be amazed at the changes possible. The right to bear arms is ridiculous to me, try taking up responsibility instead of taking up arms.
The radio dude will not be fired. The ratings season is over so they'll stow him away until it starts again by which time the whole thing will have blown over.
I think if half the people who complained about politics in countries like the US and Australia (which have strong, working democracies) actually became politically active, you'd be amazed at the changes possible. The right to bear arms is ridiculous to me, try taking up responsibility instead of taking up arms.
Who wears short shorts?
Dylan Govender.
Dylan Govender.
Did you see how short her skirt was? She was ASKING for it. She wanted it. Why wear sexy clothing in public unless you wanted sex? Her voice may have said "no," but her clothes said "fuck me." Of course, when it goes to court she'll claim she was raped, and our politically correct society will probably make him lose his job and pay a fine and go to prison.
What has our society come to when the rapist gets blamed for the rape, instead of the raped?
PS: Hilary Clinton caused the race riots in Sydney.
What has our society come to when the rapist gets blamed for the rape, instead of the raped?
PS: Hilary Clinton caused the race riots in Sydney.