Ender's Game

shaggster · Post by **shaggster** » 16 Dec 2005 15:04

has anyone read this book, im on the second to last chapter and so far i really like this book

Krafty · Post by **Krafty** » 16 Dec 2005 15:31

Ya, I had to read this book for school the about 2 summers ago. This book was an awesome book! It reminded me of Halo (the books, if you've ever read them). I really liked the ending too, it was pretty nice.

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 17 Dec 2005 06:57

That's my absolute all-time favorite book. If you run a search on the forums there should be an old topic I created about it.

Asmus · Post by **Asmus** » 17 Dec 2005 09:25

bigdirtyfoot wrote:That's my absolute all-time favorite book.

I agree best book ever and i dont really wonna read it again because i want my happy memory about how good it was!

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 17 Dec 2005 09:52

Don't worry Asmus, I've been reading Ender's Game about once a year since I was eighteen and it hasn't lost its hold on me yet. What's really interesting is reading the books that Card wrote before Ender's Game and getting a sense of his politics and worldview as they evolve... Also, the sequals are decent, although I like the ones following Ender off world much more than the ones about Bean and Petra in the Hegemony.

If you liked Ender's Game, you should definitely read the Alvin Maker saga. It's fantastic. On the other hand, I don't much recomend the "Homecoming" saga. Way too much Mormon allegory and not enough good science fiction.

Jdigges · Post by **Jdigges** » 18 Dec 2005 20:32

What is this book about. i've been looking a good book to read.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 19 Dec 2005 08:36

Jdigges asked:

What is this book about. i've been looking a good book to read.

Not to dis on all the people that love this book, but I found it merely an "okay" sci-fi novel.

Basically, its about a very intelligent, logical, and somewhat anti-social kid (anti-social in that his intellect and logic leads him to act in some ways that shock the adults around him) who gets "punished" sort of by being recruited into a sort of military boarding school. There, the kids are kind of given the tools to teach themselves, and are made into teams which are pitted against one another, the most capable individuals kind of taking command of the teams, and the most capable teams eliminating the less capable. When only the "best" ("best" in part because they are so ruthless in dealing with their competitors, and so you could say they are the worst, though their ruthlessness is excused by their very high capability of acheiving the desired results, and because they are not malicious or selfish in their ruthlessness) students are left, they begin training for some space war against an alien race that threatens to destroy the earth, or all humans, or something like that (can't remember all the specifics.) They train and practice all these space combat senarios of increasing complexity and intensity, in super-realistic simulations, being put under increasing pressure by their instructors so as to toughen them up and prepare them for their roles in the real war that they will eventually fight on behalf of all humans.

Shall I give away the big finish? What the hell, why not.

Danger: Big Spoiler !!! (don't read any further if you actually want to read this novel).

It turns out that all those simulations have actually been REAL! The kids were in fact piloting space ships by remote control and fighting the aliens out in space without ever leaving their school. The big pressure they were being put under by the teachers/commanders wasn't merely to prepare them for later. And guess what? They won the war (without ever suffering a single defeat, if I recall correctly) because these special kids were so clever, so good, and so ruthless (but in a logical, Machiavellian way, not in a mean way. All the mean kids always got some nasty come-uppance at the hands of the good but more ruthless and clever kids). They were able to win in part because they did not believe that they were really under the pressure of the actual war, and were not really killing off thousands of aliens or really blowing up the alien homeworld or something like that, and not really at risk of losing or being killed. They could do all these horrible things in part because they believed that none of it was real yet.

Personally, I didn't feel very surprised by the surprise ending at all, and felt that it was kind of a let down that the big war is actually over before you realize that its already been fought. Furthermore, I generally don't buy into the "child hero" thing, and I never really related to the characters, in part because I didn't feel them to be very real or well drawn. Whatever. It was fairly entertaining, but, to me, simply somewhat disappointing. It was okay, but it bothers me a little how so many people think this book is all that.

Anyway, it was interesting enough to make me curious to want to read the sequal, "Speaker for the Dead", in part because I've heard its considerably more sophisticated, and deals with the psychological consequences suffered by Ender for realizing that he's actually destroyed this whole other race. Sounds like it has potential. Kind of reminds me of "Cerebus" by Dave Simms, this totally outrageous comic book where the first book of the series, eponymously titled "Cerebus" is mostly just a big gag (what if we replaced Conan the Barbarian with an foul-mouthed, foul smelling anthropomorphized Arrdvark named Cerebus?). The following books, however, become very complex social and political satire, with interesting characters and plot, and the series makes that change pretty much instantaneously from page one of book two. Its kind of a trip. I never got to read ALL of the series, but it was really huge, a couple thousand pages long, and those books ain't cheap. I never got tired of it, I just got tired of paying for it. Hmmm, maybe I can get them from my library, or on e-bay? They were really good, comparing very favorably against "The Sandman" or "The Watchmen" or "The Dark Knight Returns" in sophistication. Maybe its even better than all of them, but its so much larger in scope, and different in its goal and style, that it can be hard to compare them.

Sorry to ramble. Bye.

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 19 Dec 2005 09:04

Cerebus eh? It took me about five minutes to find a torrent for comics 1-53. there are two other torrents (54-150 and 150 to two hundred something) but they aren't being seeded right now... we'll see how it goes. "The Watchmen" is by far my favourite comic series, and Dark Night Returns is probably the best Frank Miller I've ever read (much better than the Sin City series).

not to dis on all the people that love this book, but I found it merely an "okay" sci-fi novel.

Is it possible that the book was over-hyped for you before going into it? It's certainly not an original text in many ways (even the term "Ansible" for faster than light communication device was cribbed from Ursula K. LeGuin) but I believe that it is empathy with Ender that really makes this book enjoyable. I think that the characters have more depth than "smart and ruthless" and character development is definitely what drives the novel. But, hey - different strokes for different folks, eh?

Oh yeah, If I do manage to get the whole cerbus series, you want a DVD of it?

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 19 Dec 2005 10:07

I'll get back to you in PM, Junkyard. Well, maybe just a few on-topic comments:

Is it possible that the book was over-hyped for you before going into it?

Well, maybe. I don't remember actually being hyped on this, but I had heard about it and seen it around more than most novels. I enjoyed it, read it pretty quick, was kinda digging on it, but twist end was disappointing in a pretty big way.

But, hey - different strokes for different folks, eh?

Yeah, I guess that will have to do. Obviously we have fictional tastes in common, and thus it disappoints me that I can't see eye-to-eye with you on Ender, but, well, c'est la vie.

Ironically, everybody else in this thread was hyping Ender's in a pretty big way, and I've gone and given another point of view, so maybe Jdigges will enjoy it more because now its not over-hyped?

shaggster · Post by **shaggster** » 19 Dec 2005 20:39

i just finished chapter 14, the one that the spoiler is about, this one and chapter 12 are my fav. The I.F. losses the ships who deploy the Dr. Device on the alien homeland, so yes they do lose some men, but not many...

Paul Agostinelli · Post by **Paul Agostinelli** » 20 Dec 2005 00:50

there is something big here that y'all are missing, there are about 5 or 6 other books (they're scattered about my house so i cant count them at the moment) in this series. Ender's Game is certainly an awesome book, but orson scott card is more than just a sci-fi writer. im not much of a sci-fi fan in the traditional sense, but when it comes to philosophical commentary, its irrelavent to me when and where the story is set.

I highly recommend (especially to you Jon who i presume at least liked the book) to read the others, specifically Speaker for the Dead.

it is most important to understand that Ender's Game was written as a children's book, to be able to be understood by kids. none of the other books hold anything back, they are written for a much older audience.

this has been for many years, and continues to be my favorite series of books.

~NEL~

EDIT: just read the rest of your post jon, but i stand by what i say. read them all before passing negative judgement on the simplicity of characters and the plot twists of Ender's Game. i wont change the initial post because its succinct enough.

and jon, i have the entire series, so if you promise to take care of them and return them safely, i just may be able to lend them to you.

jbalexdarkelf · Post by **jbalexdarkelf** » 11 Jan 2006 15:09

This has to be the most favorite book Ive ever read. Truly vice.The way it was written and the story line are just awsome.