JANUARY 06 ONLINE COMPETITIONS - Official release.

[Anz]

Lackey82 - getting to open or novice depends on what you hit. If it's good enough to compete in open, you'll go to open.

Its Michal, dude didnt you learn in history class, that Poland lost about half of their vowels to Finnland in the 30 year war ?

LOL!

[sen]

Lackey82 - getting to open or novice depends on what you hit. If it's good enough to compete in open, you'll go to open.

I guess that means I was good enough for open?

I was thinking I'd be in novice. At least I'm not dead last in the rankings

[BalinorNZ]

I guess that means I was good enough for open?

I was thinking I'd be in novice. At least I'm not dead last in the rankings

Yes, your entrys were open level .

The way I divided it in the end, was pretty much if a sick3 had 2 or more decent 4add or above moves, it was open, and for sick1 if it was a 5add or a hard 4add (or above) it was open.


I will be writing up my comments on all the entrys and putting out a final overall ranking based on the judges comments as soon as I can spare a few hours to do so.

[BalinorNZ]

Kevin Regamy's (another Judge) has sent me his rankings:


Open Sick 1:
1. Jeremy Mirken - FullSymp Crispy Whirr
2. Nic Bathgate - Fairy DoublePickup
3. Maxime Boucoiran - Pdx Symple Whirl
4. Byrin Wylie - Montage
5. Anssi Sundberg - Spinning DblSwitch
6. Machal Biarda - Spinning Merkon
7. Jesse Malouf - Maelstrom
8. Tony Whitney - Spinning Whirl
9. Chris May - Diving Blender
10. Alex Urano - Ripstein
11. Max Jaeger - Blurry Drifter
12. Dustin Rhodes - Pdx Torque
13. Shota Nakano - Fairy Ducking Osis
14. Toby Suggate - Revup
15. Jorden Moir - Alpha Furious Legbeater
16. Fletcher Funk - Ducking PS Mirage
17. Horiyuki Morita - Pixie ss Doubledown
18. Andrey Egorov - LocoMotion

Open Sick 3:
1. Jorden Moir - Venom,Mullet,PStorque
2. Byrin Wylie - Fog,Witchdoctor,PixieParadon
3. Anssi Sundberg - Janiwalker, Spanishfly,Superfly
4. Nic Bathgate - FairyDuckingClipper,Blizzard,FairyssDLO
5. Chris May - Legbreaker,PSwhirl,SpinningWhirl
6. Andrey Egorov - Legbeater,Ripwalk,Blur
7. Toby Suggate - PdxWhirl,DuckingPdxMirage,Dimwalk
8. Dustin Rhodes - PdxWhirl,Ripwalk,Torque
9. Shota Nakano - FairyClipper,PdxMirage,Dyno
10. Hiroyuki Morita - Dimwalk,PdxMirage,Paradon
11. Tony Whitney - Dimwalk,PdxWhirl,Osis
12. Matthieu Gauthier - RevSwirl,DuckingClipper,SympWhirl

Novice Sick 1:
1. Troy Erstling - Lapset ducking Clip
2. Matt Coffman - Legbeater
3. Danny Petrick - Dimwalk
4. Logan Rudemiller - Dimwalk
5. David Suggate - PLO
6. Ben Adler - PLO
7. Koichi Tanaka - Fairy ss Pickup
8. Iian Cristal - Butterfly
9. Benjamin Benulis - Osis
10. Matt Mcfarland - Mirage
11. David Morawski - Flail
12. Dominik Walczuk - Dimwalk
13. Ben Roscoe - Pixie Osis
14. Chris Miller - Ducking Butter
15. Kensuke Yabutani - Pixie Whirl
16. Julien Romiti - Dimwalk

Novice Sick 3:
1. Fletcher Funk - ssSympMirage,SympMirage,DLO
2. Kensuke Yabutani - PixieClipper,Whirl,DLO
3. Troy Erstling - FarRevGuay,DuckingLap,Butterfly
4. Matt Coffman - Legover,Dimwalk,DuckingOsis
5. Chris Miller - DLO,Butterfly,Whirl
6. Logan Rudemiller - Illusion,Clipper,xbdRake
7. David Morawski - SympMirage,ssSympMirage,ssFlail
8. Aleksey Batrachenko - Legover,Butterfly,FarOsis
9. Julien Romiti - Butterfly,Refraction,Mirage
10. Danny Petrick - Butterfly,ssPickup,PLO
11. Ben Adler - ss Butterfly,Infinity,Mirage
12. Dominik Walczuk - FarLegover,ssMirage,Legover
13. Benjamin Benulis - Clipper,FarLegover,Legover
14. Ben Roscoe - ssDada,Refraction,Osis
15. David Suggate - Mirage,ssMirage,Legover

[qphox]

"Regamey" :P

Sorry, I didn't really include why people are placed where they are placed, but there was a degree of "reasoning" involved. If anyone is curious about my choice of placements, just pm me.

Also, I judged without having read this thread. Remaining objective and all that.

[C-Fan]

"

I didn't really include why people are placed where they are placed, but there was a degree of "reasoning" involved. If anyone is curious about my choice of placements, just pm me.
.

My question is: why was Byrin's Montage scored so high? I don't see why questions need be PMed, I think the more transparent the process, the better.

[qphox]

They really don't NEED to be pm'ed, I just wanted to make it be known that "I'd be glad to discuss" should people ask it.

As far as Byrin's Montage, I think it looks great. It's a low framerate, but I guess I've got the fact that I play with him biweekly to help me fill in the blanks. I disagree that the duck looks thin, and I disagree that the whirl is toes-only. I mean, I look at the lines on the wall behind him, and where the bag falls down vs. how far out his whirl leg gets...I think it's fine. Sure, it's a "staple 7-add'er", but straight-up it's a really well executed montage.

If you are actually asking why it scored as high as it did, that's the answer. If you're asking why others scored lower "than him", well that's something different I guess.


Also, I realised a mistake I made in novice sick 3...I misplaced two people. 11 and 13 should be switched, sorry. I guess it's easy to get confused with so many Bens.

Chris Miller PM'd me about his score, requesting feedback on the ducking butterfly. I'm already posting here, I might as well include that as well:

A trick including a duck is ideal when:
- the bag goes around the neck, not the "head"
- the bag travels straight up and down with little lateral arc
- the bag is set about chin height, requiring an actual "ducking" motion, as opposed to simply setting the bag over your head

Otherwise, I consider it the. If I consider it the, I don't consider it hit, and it ends up near the bottom.

Sorry Chris, I just don't think you hit that trick yet. That said, I know you can...keep at it.

Note: I scored Fletcher low on his Ducking PS Mirage by the same reasoning.

[shredzilla]

Hey, I wanted the reponse in PM! Hahah jk. Thanks for the skool. I've heard some people say that that style of duck is perfectly legit and some people who are considered upper echelon still duck that way. However, I would like to strive toward perfect form in all of my moves. Just today I was skooling ducking clipper for a sec and I see where that head motion comes into play. I'm also going to study some vids to check out the way others duck, and try to come up with a form that I feel is acceptable. Thanks again for the feedback, and I appreciate the fair explanation.

Oh, and that is exactly why I think entries that may be 'the' should still be included. Even if I get a bad score, I at least learned something that will improve my game.

[Jeremy]

Here are another Judges votes for Novice Sick1:
Troy
Matt C
Koichi
Logan
Chris M
Danny P
Julien R
David S
Dominik
Ben A
Ben B
Ilan
Matt M
Kenseke
David M
Ben R

And for Open Sick1:
Max B
Jeremy M
Anssi
Nic B
Michael
Byrin
Jorden
Chris
Alex
Andrey
Max J
Toby
Shota
Jesse
Dustin
Tony
Fletcher
Hiroyuki

These are my ranks. Sorry I didn't include any explenations - Here they are for open (off the top of my head).

1 Max B: I've tried this move a lot and it's ridiculously hard. Also one of the few moves that was hit with no question about control and clenliness.

2. Jeremy M: Another move that was both hit really well and clean and also very hard. Probably not quite as hard as the top move and not as original.

3. Anssi: Went through this frame by frame and thought it was undoubtably clean. Super hard move and hit well. Not as hard as Jeremy's move and probably better than Nic's because Nic's is dex dex dex while this is spin dex dex. - ie. a different component.

4. Nic B: Again this move is undoubtably clean despite the frame rate. It kind of irks me that people comment on the frame rate as a negative thing - people enter with the equipment they have at hand and it seems to be asking a lot to expect them to go and buy a $1500 camera just for online compeitions. It also irks me that people questioned the clenliness when if you take the time to watch this frame by frame there is no doubt in my mind that all three dexes are clean. Awesome entry - props! Very close to 3rd.

5. Michal: Sorry for spelling your name wrong. The top 5 moves for me were a long way above the rest because they were all executed fairly well and had a great deal of creativity and technical ability. I guess I put this 5th (and not higher) because once you learn double spinning I don't think this is much more difficult than other double spinning moves and although double spinning is hard - I don't think it's as hard as some of the stuff above - particular in terms of technical ability. Still a really good entry.

6. Bryin: Going through this frame by frame I thought it was good enough to be deemed clean. While I wasn't entirely convinced I think it's better to give people the benifit of the doubt when you can't see. Despite a few people hitting this move really well - I think it's still a very difficult move which requires a great deal of technical ability - the move requires a spin a duck and a symp dex (and an xbdy del but I don't really rate that as significant at this level). It's not in the level of the top 5 but definitely a much stronger move than all those below in terms of technical ability and execution.

7. Jorden: Thought all 4 dexes were questionable but couldn't call any as definitely the - all thin though and the set out wasn't good either. Considering other people have hit this move in a much cleaner manner and better executed I had to place it last of the players I genuinly thought are open - there was too much of a difference in technical ability of those below this mark to place it lower. I think despite the fact that it's not very clean - it still has much more technical merit than those below and that was the prime thing I was judging.

8. Chris May: As pointed out it's a shame you hit the ground with your dexing foot but apart from that I thought this was executed fairly well and is a difficult move and not that common. Good work.

9. Alex Urano: Wrong angle to see if a ripstein is clean or not - most "the" ripsteins have the bag outside of the dexing circles. However since I couldn't see I didn't take that into account. I think the catch at the end was a bit back on your foot and the set out wasn't straight at all. Hard move though - one of three in the comp I haven't hit.

10. Andrey: I was baffled by Kevin's vote of putting this last. It looked clean to me although I didn't check too hard. Difficult and well executed move - probably just lost out over the two above because of difficulty and originality.

11. Max J: Well hit - just not as hard as the moves above.

12: Toby: Same as above - just a move that is too easy in comparison.

13: Shota: A little questionable with the fairy set and the control out of move - difficult but could have been executed a little better.

14: Jesse: Whirl dex is very questionable. If it's not "the" then it's so thin I had to put it fairly low down.

15: Dustin: Could rotate better and set out isn't very controlled. Also pdx torque doesn't really compare in difficulty to most of the moves here.

16: Fletcher: Duck is "the". I don't count ducks as ducks when they are that high. By definition you have to "duck" under the footbag - in the case of your move no actually ducking was required. There's no reason why you can't hit this well though.

17: Hiroyuki: Last dexes are "the". Hard move to hit cleanly. I think you need to start your second dex earlier and try a tighter window.


I think in the future 17 competitors is too many and it would be a better idea to split up this into open and intermediate. Open being the top 7 - ie. people hitting rare moves of about a difficult 6 add level.

Intermediate comments. Can't really remember to be honest There were too many dimwalks. I went with Troy as number 1. because I thought he was the only person with a trick with excellent execution and it was around the same difficulty of those around but more creative. Everybody else need to work on execution but I guess that's why you're novice and the more you play the easier these moves will become and the better the execution. Oh the guy who hit osis in pants had good execution too. I would have at least like to have seen the move set from a toe or clipper rather than dropped into it though.

[BalinorNZ]

Jeremy's Open sick3 results:

Jorden
Anssi
Byrin
Nic
Chris
Dustin
Toby
Andrey
Shota
Hiroyuki
Tony
Mathieu

Thank you for your time Jeremy

[Jeremy]

Open Sick 3 Results in order:

Jorden: A class above the rest - best difficulty and very good execution. The easiest move was in the middle but awesome variety and technicality.

Anssi: A good combo - I thought the butterfly at the end of the janiwalker could have been more solid and the set out of the spanishfly made the superfly harder which meant the set out of the superfly was even worse. Still a top effort both in variety and difficulty. I liked the way there was a connection between the moves.

Byrin: Good combo - the sets could be straighter for each move though and not a great deal of variety - dex dex dex>dex bod dex> dex dex dex.


Nic Good combo - two hard fairy moves on both sides of your body. It's a shame about the clipper which made the links fairly easy. Well hit

Chris: Almost finished 4th. Solid first two moves but the set for the spinning whirl was too high so it was very toey and the set out at the end was shakey.



Dustin: Good variety and fairly well hit. Definitely you beat those below because you had much better variety - three completely unique moves. Pdx whirl>stepping has some moderate difficulty as a link too.


Toby: good variety. The pdx whirl was toey though and the links were not challenging.

Andrey: Ok but all shuffle. Would have helped a lot to through in a non shuffle downtime move.


Shota: really not sure if the dyno was clean or not - looked like the bag was to the inside of your knee instead of the out. Also try not to plant into pdx mirage.


Hiroyuki: Probably just beaten by Shota because of less variety. Good to see setting off both sides of your body but 4 of the 5 dexes were with the one foot and the dexes on the paradon were very toey.


Tony: Try not to plant on pdx whirls. Also the dimwalk looked a little uncontrolled and osis is far too easy a finishing move.


Mathieu: The reverse swirl was very toey. Also try to set straight up with the ducking clipper instead of setting across your body and I was a little unconviced with the symp whirl - good link at the end though. Set out was not very controlled.


Overall the level was ok. Again I think it would be better to have open and intermediate. In this case the top 5 were much better than the bottom 7. Combos were fairly well executed but probably that could have been improved. I judged on technical ability, execution, variety. It's good to consider how difficult the links are as well as the difficulty of the moves. I don't think there was really many challenging links from any of the competitors. Fog>atomic set from Byrin was about the only link that was worth a mention. Awesome combo from Jorden though.

[shredzilla]

8. Chris May: (Hit Diving Blender- Add 5)

9. Alex Urano: (Hit Ripstein- Add 4)

10. Andrey: (Hit Locomotion- Add 6) I was baffled by Kevin's vote of putting this last. It looked clean to me although I didn't check too hard. Difficult and well executed move - probably just lost out over the two above because of difficulty and originality.

This didn't make sense to me, I thought Locomotion was at least more original and tougher than Ripstein.

Went through this frame by frame and thought it was undoubtably clean.

Out of curiousity, what program are you using to view frame by frame, I cannot do that in Windows Media Player.

[BalinorNZ]

I talked to Kevin and the reasoning for voting Andrey last is because the combo wasn't 'sealed'. Ie, he droped the next trick after his sick1.
I think this was bad luck for him and my votes probably won't reflect the lack of seal so harshly, but, these are online competitions and everybody has the chance to hit their move again if they executed it badly (for example, with no seal).

As for frame by frame, I use windows media player 10 (I don't know what Jeremy uses). To get frame by frame in WMP10, click view > enhancements, click 'show enhancements' if it is not ticked already, then click view > enhancements > Media link for E-Mail and while the video is paused, use the 2 arrow buttons underneath 'slow mediuim fast' to cycle forward and backward through the frames.

[qphox]

If you've got an unlimited number of attempts, there's no reason you should submit an unsealed trick.

[acxel22]

what if you had a session on the day before the deadline; and didnt even try to something for the competition, but decided to throw a little something just for the fun of it

I was surprised being in open.. I am in no way that level.. oh well

[Shredster]

If you've got an unlimited number of attempts, there's no reason you should submit an unsealed trick.

Unless what you hit was a fluke, which, what I've heard, you really don't deserve to have hit it anyways. But the only time you should submit a nonsealed trick is if you cannot hit anything else

[Jeremy]

8. Chris May: (Hit Diving Blender- Add 5)

9. Alex Urano: (Hit Ripstein- Add 4)

10. Andrey: (Hit Locomotion- Add 6) I was baffled by Kevin's vote of putting this last. It looked clean to me although I didn't check too hard. Difficult and well executed move - probably just lost out over the two above because of difficulty and originality.

This didn't make sense to me, I thought Locomotion was at least more original and tougher than Ripstein.

Went through this frame by frame and thought it was undoubtably clean.

Out of curiousity, what program are you using to view frame by frame, I cannot do that in Windows Media Player.

I was using windows media player classic I think. Was at an internet cafe though so I could be wrong.

Regarding those three results.

First adds are not proportionate to difficulty. This is a really important thing to remember. In my opinion ripstein is definitely a more difficult move than locomotion. Of those three moves mentioned I find locomotion to be by far the easiest of those three. Ripstiens might be popular at the moment but you still need a great deal of control. Diving blender is just as hard as ducking pdx blender and requires both control and speed - especially because you lose sight of the bag for a moment. Locomotion is hard but only a little harder than a blurriest - stepping sets are easy and don't add a great deal to the difficulty and motion is also not a very difficult downtime component. That's not to say locomotion isn't a cool and difficult move but in comparison I thought it just lost out.

[dyalander]

I don't have win med player 10 so i was just using well timed pauses, but i'll endevour to upgrade to it because it sounds like that would have made a difference. Its not a matter of "taking the time" because i took ages on nic and byrin's sic 1's particularly. I disagree about benefit of the doubt, i think it should be handed out sparingly if at all (that said i guess i gave it to Alex's ripstien far more generously than to Nic or Byrin, based on the angles - theres no way of knowing for sure that that ripstein was clean and perhaps i should have factored that in more). In the end with Nick's, at normal speed it looks "the" to me. I managed to pause it on either side but couldn't get the key frames and as i said to nick, it may have been clean - in which case he's got some awesome karma headed his way, but there wasn't enough to convince me. so sorry jeremy, you can irk all you want you little bitch .
I judged it keeping in mind we want to reward the types of moves we want to have sent in. Poor angles should be punished, thin moves should also be punished, of course "the" will be punished. As for frame rates, ppl need to know that if the vid is going to be low frame rate/resolution, the dexes had better be deep and beyond doubt. In the end people can and should submit whatever the hell they want, as long as they know what they can expect to get in return - ie as long as the judging criteria is made clear.

[BalinorNZ]

I respect all of the judges opinions equally (even if they did vote me last ) and they will all be used for the conclusion of the final ranking (which is coming soon by the way! Just one more vote to come from one judge before it happens).

Only read the following if you give a crap why my sick1 was so bad frame rate:
It was very unfortunate about my sick1, my parents had my DV cam for 2 weeks and didn't get back till like the 7th of February, so we had to use Toby's unreliable digicam. It is 'surposed' to have frame rate of 24, but for some reason it randomly cut the framerate in half (12fps) on my sick1. I have seen Toby's camera do 24fps, but counting the frames on the raw footage for my sick1, it skipped every 2nd frame... wierd.
I should have done it deeper anyway, and I was going to postpone the competition till the 7th so I could get it on my dvcam, but that would be unfair on the other compeditors, and I was told by Anssi, Felix, Johnny Murphy and Phil M that it was clean lol.
I hate making excuses, and I would rather go away and hit the move clean and well filmed in my defence, but even if I did it woulden't matter as the judges votes are final.
Maybe one day I will, just because it's a cool move

[shredzilla]

Is a final ranking going to be posted?