dyalander wrote:Look janis clearly we simply disagree on a lot of things and its not going to be productive to just go around a merry-go-round of posts, but i'll answer a couple of things in you're post anyway because i've always liked merry-go-rounds, they make me feel merry:
LOL
ok this is my last post on the merry-go-round
The x-kick is only when the bag is kicked before and after a dex or used to set for a trick (only where the set makes the trick harder). I'm not just talking about using this in shred 30, people could consider this when going for their tiltless/guiltless runs and do some of these tricks in their runs while still doing tricks of the desired add value.
Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on using kicks in runs
shreddaily wrote:I guess I'm the only one who LIKES THE ADD SYSTEM!!!!!
Every time I watch a video of a killer shredder, espesialy finlanders, it reasures me of how great the add system is. I find nothing boring with fearless/tripless comos.
I like the add system too.
And I like it pretty much the way how it is now, i.e. not a hardness factor.
In my opinion judging the hardness always happens in the mind of the spectator.
We don't disagree about using them in runs I'm all for them in runs and routines. I'm saying they don't have a place in shred 30.
The x-kick is only when the bag is kicked before and after a dex or used to set for a trick (only where the set makes the trick harder)
this is not a workable definition for a kick add - it includes slops, and who decides if it makes a set "harder" and harder than what exactly. Does the add go to the start of moves or to the end of them, the definition doesn't make that clear since there must be a dex before and after it.
people could consider this when going for their tiltless/guiltless runs and do some of these tricks in their runs while still doing tricks of the desired add value.
Why not just do them and not care about being totally guiltless etc all the time. Its this that we disagree on. I think its easier to just kick on and change the guiltless only perceptions that are out there, rather than change the add system to allow ppl to be guiltless and still kick - the whole concept of guiltless s based on the idea that dropping below you're level is something to be guilty about, and thus to push your shred to new levels of difficulty - i think its better if we remembered, taught, and advocated this principle rather than tied it to the add system. Thats what we clearly disagree on.
Yeah exactly - who can honestly say that if they saw a midstring drifter kick>ripwalk they wouldn't be impressed regardless of what the add count was? How many people call other people on guilts in a circle these days? If you want to put 2 add moves or even less in your runs you're not going to be called on it and if they're cool 2 add moves people will give you props regardless of the add count. Changes to the add system are the least efficient way of improving footbag competitions and are meaningless outside of that.
just so you guys know why i haven't had too much more to say about this... I think it's been made pretty clear that trying to affect people through changing the add system, and trying to change the add system at all, is a pretty obnoxious messy business. This spring, once my hip and knee have healed up and there's some decent weather, I'm going to make some trick tip videos for some lesser used concepts / delays, like calf rolls, dragons, and ass stall. If I work on it a lot more, I might be able to do one for swirling / symp swirling monster, hopefully with some help from Jorden.
Anyway, I think that is the most effective and most helpful way that I can accomplish my goal, which is to get stylers to diversify their games a little bit more by making them realize how possible and how cool these concepts can be with a little practice.
Matt Cross wrote:This spring, once my hip and knee have healed up and there's some decent weather, I'm going to make some trick tip videos for some lesser used concepts / delays, like calf rolls, dragons, and ass stall. If I work on it a lot more, I might be able to do one for swirling / symp swirling monster, hopefully with some help from Jorden.
Matt Cross wrote:just so you guys know why i haven't had too much more to say about this... I think it's been made pretty clear that trying to affect people through changing the add system, and trying to change the add system at all, is a pretty obnoxious messy business. This spring, once my hip and knee have healed up and there's some decent weather, I'm going to make some trick tip videos for some lesser used concepts / delays, like calf rolls, dragons, and ass stall. If I work on it a lot more, I might be able to do one for swirling / symp swirling monster, hopefully with some help from Jorden.
Anyway, I think that is the most effective and most helpful way that I can accomplish my goal, which is to get stylers to diversify their games a little bit more by making them realize how possible and how cool these concepts can be with a little practice.
Sounds great!!!!
Trick tip videos for lesser known components is a briliant way to help diversify, its a brilliant ideea Matt. So me and my friend pat will make a vid about pincher tricks, it will go into a lot of different pinch moves/combos
Jeremy wrote:I was just thinking, there are a lot of moves I don't hit because I think of them as too easy for their add value - or I'll hit them as a joke but not as a serious move. It's not really a conscious thing though. It's kind of like add hunting but in reverse. Anyway I've decided to try and do a better job of not worrying about adds.
from "reverse add hunting"... this is just the kind of thing I was talking about...
but, yeah, video time soon... gotta find someone local with some decent editing skills and a camera... sure would be cool if I could just do this myself...
I don't deny that its a problem, but Jeremy states he will try and overcome it within his attitude, and I believe this is the best way to fix the problem - by communicating to people the importance of variety and creativity and exposing to them the limits of their mindsets with a view to changing their attitudes.
Yeah and when I'm competing I certainly won't stay away from easy high add moves is a shred 30. I'll try and make the most of the rules I have to compete within.
There is no system that can accurately score competitors in a freestyle sport.
There are no numerical measurements to describe the manuvers in skateboarding, juggling, or ice skating because the only way to get reliable results is through a panel of qualified judges. The nature of freestyle footbag only allows for subjective judging, if there needs to be competition at all. Any 'objective' ranking system is a lie.
No competition format should rely on a score, unless there will always be the debate we see here and nobody will ever be satisfied.
That said, the purpose of the ADD system should be to describe tricks based on components in a manner that is straightforward, accurate, easy to learn, and easy to understand (unlike the disgusting mess of a naming system we have today). It will automatically create a rough measure of the difficulty of individual moves; nothing more accurate is possible. To me, every attempt to fix the ADD system is just a patchwork solution that doesn't address the real problem, and every so-called solution just creates more problems and confusion.
So far, I think the best solution to the ADD system problem (or perceived problem) is the Circle Competition. Next time I throw a tournament, we're definitely having one.
I didnt read this whole thread. I don't think lack of diversity of style is a result of the add system; the variety of "popular" tricks is overwhelming, theirs sooo much to learn before you can start thinking about being original, its easy to get lost in a sea of dex's.
