Total number of tricks EVER HIT?

max · Post by **max** » 03 Mar 2006 00:47

Hello footbaggers,

A friend asked me this the other day:

How many tricks are there in footbag freestyle?

It's clear from watching videos of routines / shred 30 out there you'd notice that there's about 200 or so "widely used" guiltless tricks. But how much are there in total? That means counting all those weird sets (double fairy, moshing, pendulous, stepulous etc...), all the dragon variations, all baily moves like spinning gyro toe kick, all huge 'only hit once' moves, symple moves, moves ending on unusual surfaces or insides, kicks etc..

Here is some more info for you:

- footbag.org has 280 moves in its list
- the "Has <insert variable difficulty trick> been hit?" has 75 tricks that HAVE been hit

Anyway, I guessed the total number to be at the 3000 mark.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 03 Mar 2006 00:57

When making a list to film move demos for the Hackrifice website I came up with about 600 moves just with the basic, common sets and downtime components. And I was missing a LOT.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 03 Mar 2006 01:02

I would guess more than 3000. Considering the permutations and the fact that most of said permutations (using basic and even screwy uptime/downtime/etc concepts) can be expanded on... Add in the even weirder stuff people have been coming up with lately. Ever watched Jubal Hume? It gets weirder. Anyway, kind of a poorly written post, but there's a lot to be hit out there.

Uranos · Post by **Uranos** » 03 Mar 2006 01:29

Id say waay more than 3000. About 10 or more diffferent delays, 12 spin+duck components that ive counted (spinning gyro ingyro double spinning inspinning sonic ducking zulu weaving diving), hundreds of different single dex moves...or more...hundreds of double dex moves, hundreds of triple dex moves, a few 4 dexes...

I dunno much about maths but id say if you use the X c Y method.
(ie 7 c 5 = 42 i think)....theres about 10000 moves

Whateva i said

id say 10,000 at least.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 03 Mar 2006 02:50

I once counted all the unique tricks that are possible counting starting and ending surfaces.

It's a lot.

Inside, Outside, Toe - same from xbd - 6 starting/ending surfaces.
All the sets from these surfaces - there's like 100 different options.
Concepts, spinning and ducking + combinations
Then the ending possibilities

And even half of them hasn't been hit yet.

LinoSphere · Post by **LinoSphere** » 16 Mar 2006 16:47

so what about writing some software to answer this question??
can't somebody write some code that combines all the options, so it returns a list of all theoretically possible combinations of components, and then humans would have to cross out those options that are definetely impossible to do, given the physical limitations of the human body (like no 4 downtime dexes after double spin).
i have no clue neither of math nor of programming, but it sounds like a doable thing...

or isn't there any kind of equation that could be used?

and how many was it that you counted, Anssi?

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 17 Mar 2006 10:54

*Anssi is counting them at the moment by the way, just join the chat.*

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 17 Mar 2006 11:06

Ok let's count

First frontbody sets:
Toe, Inside, Outside, Heel - pixie, fairy, atomic, quantum, sailing, frantic, fairy quantum, fairy atomic, Double Fairy, Double Pixie, Double Atomic, Double Quantum = 48

Then Cross body sets:
Clipper, Zipper, Dragon, Xbd Heel, Flapper - Swirling, Rev Swirling, Smiling, Stepping, Bubba, Nuclear, Shooting, Furious = 40

Plus all the Front-Cross body combinations and what-so-ever weird:
Phasing, Moshing, Slicing, Splicing, Airing, Surging, Gyro Bubba, Radiative, = 8

Oh - Calf and Pincher, you can hit some stuff from them too, but what?

Then dexless components:
Spinning, Double Spinning, Inspinning, Double Inspinning, Gyro, Double Gyro, Ducking, Diving, Zulu, Weaving, Double Ducking, Double Diving, Double Weaving, Double Zulu - 15

+ all the mix ups of Spins and Ducks - 48

Front body ending tricks... ummm

I'm sure I forgot half of them:
Toe, Inside, Outside, Heel - Mirage, Pickup, Legover, Illusion, DLO, Eggbeater, Illusioning Pickup, Miraging Pickup, (some 3dex stuff?), Miraging symp Mirage, Double Mirage, Double Illusion, Double Pickup, Doubel Legover - 52

Xbd ending tricks... ugh
Clipper, Zipper, Dragon, Xbd Heel, Flapper - Butterfly, Rev Whirl, Rev Swirl, DoubleDown, Whirl, Swirl, Dada Curve, Drifter, Grifter, Illusioning Symple Butterfly, Miraging Symp Whirl, Double Drifter, Double Whirl, Double Swirl, Torque, Double Torque, Reverse Torque - 78

There. I those are the uptime and downtime concepts that I could think of - now all that remains is to sum them up:

Front Body starting tricks:
48 * 15 * 52 = 37.440
48 * 15 * 78 = 56.160
48 * 48 * 52 = 119.808
48 * 48 * 78 = 179.712

(at this very moment I don't feel like knowing the final answer)

Xbd starting tricks:
40 * 15 * 52 = 31200
40 * 15 * 78 = 46.800
40 * 48 * 52 = 99.840
40 * 48 * 78 = 149.760

Other sets:
8 * 15 * 52 = 6.240
8 * 15 * 78 = 9.360
8 * 48 * 52 = 19.968
8 * 48 * 78 = 29.952

Altogether...
786.240 - when counting only the tricks that use a dex set, dexless component, and ends to a dexing trick

I guess the real number is close to million.

... .. .

D'OH! I DIDN'T COUNT SYMPOSIUM OR PARADOX YET!!!

so every trick can be done rooted and symposium...

That makes around 1.500.000 unique tricks.

But we must remember that this is the theoretical possibility. Like these tricks are involved here:
- Rooted Zipper set Symp Furious Double Ducking Superfly
- Dragon set Rev Swirling Gyro Double Zulu Symposium Barroque
- etc crap

btw I just realised that I didn't count Whirling Swirls, Butterfly Swirls or Barfly Swirls... bah

Well let's just say that there are like two million theoretically possible footbag tricks... and only 1% of them have been named?

janis · Post by **janis** » 17 Mar 2006 18:47

ana_ali wrote: Oh - Calf and Pincher, you can hit some stuff from them too, but what?

everything, muhhhhhaaahahahahaha

Damn theres a lot of different tricks

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 18 Mar 2006 03:57

ana_ali wrote:Well let's just say that there are like two million theoretically possible footbag tricks... and only 1% of them have been named?

Byrin at the chat wrote:...but can you do them bsos?

LinoSphere · Post by **LinoSphere** » 18 Mar 2006 05:18

wow! thanks a lot anssi!

that really is a lot of tricks. two things are certain:
1) there's always another trick to learn
2) nobody will have ever hit all moves

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 18 Mar 2006 12:58

Hey Anssi,
you wasted your time to count how many tricks are theoreticaly possible because....

... if we think theoreticaly then there is an infinite number of tricks possible... Why? Because theoretically you can always add next component to every single trick ...

But if we would like to count how many tricks were ever hit then we would have to count every single trick. I don't think there is any possible equation we could make to count this.

I would estimate it around 8-12 tousands... It's wide interval.. I know...

Rockey · Post by **Rockey** » 19 Mar 2006 09:50

ana_ali wrote: - Rooted Zipper set Symp Furious Double Ducking Superfly
- Dragon set Rev Swirling Gyro Double Zulu Symposium Barroque

Nobody's hit these moves yet?

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 20 Mar 2006 04:09

ptaku wrote:Hey Anssi,
you wasted your time to count how many tricks are theoreticaly possible because....

... if we think theoreticaly then there is an infinite number of tricks possible... Why? Because theoretically you can always add next component to every single trick ...

Actually no. I counted all the stuff that has been hit. I didn't invent any new sets. For example, I didn't count triplespinning because it hasn't been hit yet (?)

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 20 Mar 2006 08:29

ana_ali wrote:
ptaku wrote:Hey Anssi,
you wasted your time to count how many tricks are theoreticaly possible because....

... if we think theoreticaly then there is an infinite number of tricks possible... Why? Because theoretically you can always add next component to every single trick ...
Actually no. I counted all the stuff that has been hit. I didn't invent any new sets. For example, I didn't count triplespinning because it hasn't been hit yet (?)

I've seen a n00b hit Flying clipper>triple spinning inside kick. He was a sponsored snowboarder so I wasn't even that suprised.

Bander87 · Post by **Bander87** » 21 Mar 2006 15:30

I think we should count "core" tricks only, instead of all this inside, outside, calf, heel blah blah blah... We could say there's x tricks with an estimated number of variations. I think we would get a more realistic picture.

janis · Post by **janis** » 22 Mar 2006 02:08

Not counting tricks that are clearly impossible is one thing but why should a perfectly valid trick like double spinning inside not be counted in a total?

GordonFreeman · Post by **GordonFreeman** » 22 Mar 2006 10:00

Sorry, but what's "zipper"

Cod · Post by **Cod** » 22 Mar 2006 10:04

GordonFreeman wrote:Sorry, but what's "zipper"

Crossbody Toe

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 24 Mar 2006 12:42

I grilled my brain cells counting those and no gratitude - fine well all the wheiners can count themselves.

With all the trick that won't propably ever be hit there's still like million possibilities. And I see no use of counting all the "base" tricks, c'mon!!