Popped Stitches

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 15 Apr 2006 08:19

I just switched to nylon upholstery thread & glovers needles when stitching

I hadn't had any problems with popped stitches before this

This has fucked up my last three 32 panel bags, and ruined them because I haven't a fucking clue how to fix it [big whole in facile]. I tried only double knotting the knot [first bag]

Triple knotting [second bag]

Multiple fucking knotting [this bag that just broke]

I always find out in the worst of possible situations and end up throwing the bag away [and the lead shot]

Losing the filler isn't the end of the world, because I have enough to hook other stitchers up with til the end of the decade-but it sucks regardless

edit: I was using dental floss [but no longer-it stretches so facile doesn't break in] & I've used several different colors of facile]

How do I fix this problem?

Roy · Post by **Roy** » 15 Apr 2006 08:32

What kind of thread were you using before?

Drew360 · Post by **Drew360** » 15 Apr 2006 11:32

glovers needles are the ones that have the three sharp edges along the sides right? that is the reason i don't use them is because when using thin fabric and glovers needles the sharp edges of the needle creates little slits (weak points) in the material and has a higher chance of the stitch to rip through... when using glovers needles on stronger material (like real leather) this is not a problem...

i don't know if this is your problem, but i wanted to post just to give an idea.

Wasabi · Post by **Wasabi** » 16 Apr 2006 12:48

TheVindicator wrote:This has fucked up my last three 32 panel bags, and ruined them because I haven't a fucking clue how to fix it [big whole in facile]. I tried only double knotting the knot [first bag]

Triple knotting [second bag]

Multiple fucking knotting [this bag that just broke]

I'm not too clear on how you stitch your bags here. Are you knotting them to close your running stitch after going around the pent, or are you stitching with a different method? The stitches too tight/close? How's the gather?

Anyway, hook me up by PM to give me the full story. I might help you out.

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 16 Apr 2006 12:50

Thanks

I really don't want to resume using the shitty needles, because they would literally rip holes in my thumb. If anyone has more input & thinks that glovers needles really are the cause-I'll quit using them.

Has anyone [Johnny, Matt, Peng] experienced this?

Drew360 · Post by **Drew360** » 16 Apr 2006 17:42

im sure that alot of people don't have problems using glovers needles... but it does weaken thin material more than using a standard needle... a standard needle forces its way through the material without cutting it, so the material is still intact surroung the hole... a glovers needle cuts through the material leaving 3 little cuts in the material... and once you start a cut it is easier to tear it than trying to tear an intact piece of material... this is especially true if you are sewing close to the edge of the material...

if you have switched to glovers needles and different thread i would strongly suspect it is the glovers needle that is at fault, maybe combined with sewing close to the edge....

hope this helps you.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » 16 Apr 2006 18:02

Drew has a real good point, but facile is pretty durable. even when slits are cut in it, its hard to rip or tear. Too close to the edge could be a problem but thats easy enough changed. I dont like throwing in too many differences in my stitching in one bag, that way i know exactly what made or killed the bag.

Pengu · Post by **Pengu** » 16 Apr 2006 18:21

Sounds like you're stitching too close to the edge dude. Too little material by the edge will rip, no matter which kind of needle you use. A new glover's needle will cut your skin a little bit, but you'll build a callous and the needle will dull in time and it won't be much of a problem anymore. After stitching a few bags, your joints and hand/arm muscles will thank you for using a glover's needle over a normal needle. Normal needles just require way too much force and you can hurt yourself if you're stitching a lot of bags.

I prefer a slightly-used glover's over a brand new one just because it does have the tendency to cut. You just have to be a little more careful about needle placement with a brand spanking new one or double-up the thread. Glover's needle when new are sharp enough to cut your thread so avoid crossing paths between your needle and thread initially. If you think your glover's is too sharp, dull it a little and rub the 3 edges it against your jeans.

The small slits in facile aren't any easier to tear compared with normal leather. You just need a little practice and finesse. Leave more flange.

It could also be just a bad batch of facile. I've encountered some facile that just stretch and pull apart. I hope that's not the case with you.

Wasabi · Post by **Wasabi** » 17 Apr 2006 00:17

Pengu wrote:I prefer a slightly-used glover's over a brand new one just because it does have the tendency to cut. You just have to be a little more careful about needle placement with a brand spanking new one or double-up the thread. Glover's needle when new are sharp enough to cut your thread so avoid crossing paths between your needle and thread initially.

I totally agree. It's good to have a sharp Glover's needle sometimes, but it makes stitching a bit frustrating if you placed incorrectly. I also like it when the needle becomes slightly curved so that you can grip onto the needle when stabbing through. However, too much of a curve makes needle placement a bit unbalanced because of the displacement in pressure.

Jdigges · Post by **Jdigges** » 17 Apr 2006 15:21

Yea, i've experience new glover's needles cutting my floss while anchoring. not badly though. I would never go back to the old needles i used...they hurt my wrists and hands. they would cramp up from pressing so hard, i thought i was getting carpal tunal or something. it does sound like you may be stitching to close to the edge. i haven't encountered any of my stitches ripping out, unless i stitched too close to the edges.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 17 Apr 2006 17:22

Drew360: your thought on the physics of needles is a good attempt but not really correct in some respects.
Yes, a glovers needle cuts a hole, but it does not directly weaken the structure of the bag much. The real advantage of cutting a hole over plowing a rounded needle into the material is that when you use a normal needle it creates a stress concentration around your thread. The displaced material from a round needle presses against the thread making the bag feel stiffer too.

If you place the needle correctly and make sure that there are no spots where the holes are under 1.5 mm from any edge then you likely won't have any problems.

Drew360 · Post by **Drew360** » 18 Apr 2006 11:05

mosher wrote:your thought on the physics of needles is a good attempt but not really correct in some respects.

i'm not really trying to get into physics or anything crazy like that... i am speaking common sense here... putting a cut in material weakens it more than not, and can give the thread/floss an avenue to continue tearing the cut which after awhile "could" result in a popped seam. i'm not saying don't use glovers needles, they have their place... i just prefer not to use them on thin material...

mosher wrote:Yes, a glovers needle cuts a hole, but it does not directly weaken the structure of the bag much.

but it does weaken the bag more than using a standard needle that doesn't put cuts in the material.

mosher wrote:The real advantage of cutting a hole over plowing a rounded needle into the material is that when you use a normal needle it creates a stress concentration around your thread. The displaced material from a round needle presses against the thread making the bag feel stiffer too.

the advantage of using a glovers needle is it makes it SOO much easier pushing it through the material... the small amount of displaced material from using a regular needle is tiny and not enough to make a difference in the stiffness of a bag.

mosher wrote:If you place the needle correctly and make sure that there are no spots where the holes are under 1.5 mm from any edge then you likely won't have any problems.

true.

the fact of the matter is that Vindicator was not having any problems using standard needles... then when he switched to glovers needles using the same style of stitching he started to have popped panels... it just goes to show that glovers needles can cause failure if the right precautions are not taken... example: leaving more material so if a tear does start, it doesn't rip all the way through.

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 18 Apr 2006 12:15

FUCK

maybe I just wrote it stupid

But I meant:

The KNOT is SLIPPING THROUGH THE WHOLE

There is no TEARING

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 18 Apr 2006 16:11

Be more creative then, dude.

Drew360 · Post by **Drew360** » 18 Apr 2006 16:48

MAN!!

all this GREAT debating and for no reason lol

well it was fun while it lasted

mc · Post by mc » 18 Apr 2006 19:46

use waxed dental floss so you can leave a little bit of thread after you tie that knot, set it on fire, and smush it's melted self into the thread. no way a big lump like that is getting pulled through.

Wasabi · Post by **Wasabi** » 18 Apr 2006 20:10

Matt Cross wrote:use waxed dental floss so you can leave a little bit of thread after you tie that knot, set it on fire, and smush it's melted self into the thread. no way a big lump like that is getting pulled through.

Just don't burn the facile by accident while you're at it.

andr00 · Post by **andr00** » 18 Apr 2006 21:11

facile burns really fast but luckily not too hard. you should be fine if it catches just blow it out fast - it would take awhile to burn through

mahhkohh · Post by **mahhkohh** » 19 Apr 2006 06:28

one thin i read in this interessting thread. your wrists hurt after stiching...how do you guys stich? i stich with regular needles only, untill now, i will try a glovers needle soon. and the only thing i get from stiching is this crazy ass horn skin thing on the top off my finger, its cool, my grannie tolde metoo use a fingers cup for stabbing, but i dont need, i have it build in!

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