Juggling Thread

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 17 Apr 2006 21:15

Erik Chan wrote:EDIT 2: Lauri are you sure Half Mess is half cascade and half reverse cascade? I couldn't watch the Mills Mess video on that Wildcat site, but for some reason the "step-by-step" videos below worked, and surely there is arm crossing. It doesn't seem to make sense that Half Mess would have none of that. It seems more like that Arches pattern, but with only 2 arches instead of one per ball (3). I will make some videos tomorrow, after exams -- maybe I am just doing it wrong?

From one hand I am tossing regular cascade (so inward, underhand) and with the other I am tossing reverse cascade (over and...not really "overhand" but moreso...) all tossing in the same direction. So it forms a sort of...boomerang shape in the air...

Erik, you originally asked tips for Half Shower, not Half Mess.

Typo? I don't know, I'll post some tips when I'm back home.
Got to go to school now.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 17 Apr 2006 23:26

Ooooohhh. That makes a lot of sense

Some tips on Mills Mess would be awesome, too, if you have any.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 18 Apr 2006 06:34

Half Mess on the left side:
toss one ball in the air (doesn't really matter which hand, from the right it's probably easier), then:
- over the top throw with the left hand > under the (left) arm throw with the right hand > left hand throw (arms uncross immediately after this) > over the top throw with the right hand > rpt

I think I can't say it any clearer than that although even that must be hard to understand.

There are no catches, I count on you that you can figure them out.

*sorry*

Mills Mess:
toss a ball, then:
- over the top throw with the left hand > under the (left) arm throw with right hand > left hand throw (arms uncross) > over the top throw with the right hand > (arms cross now!) under the (right) arm throw with the left hand > right hand throw > rpt

I bolded the part that makes Mills Mess different from Half Mess.
Earlier I posted this tip for Mills Mess:
1. Learn the crossed arm reverse cascade both sides
2. Think how you can switch the sides with the minimum number of throws.
3. Switch back
4. repeat
^^^That's what Mills Mess basically is. It's not that hard as one might think.

---
Okay, maybe we'll just wait for Jorden's juggling tip video...

Jorden: I'd like to see your whole repertoire! Tips especially for Burke's Barrage would be appreciated.

Erik: Good juggling balls are worth to pay for. They aren't even that expensive. I don't know what quality the toy store balls are, but mine are the official juggling balls of a local circus. They are beanbags I guess, nothing like footbags though!; they feel a bit like snowballs. Their form can be changed a bit --> they don't start rolling madly when they drop. I think they didn't cost even 5€ per piece.
Anssi: You can sure start with footbags, at least they don't roll when you drop them - and you'll probably drop a lot when you start.

But get the juggling balls if you're interested in juggling enough.

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 18 Apr 2006 08:27

hey whats up? i have just barely gotten into juggling, and i can do 2 or three ball juggling and i want to start learning tricks, is there anywhere you guys could direct me to start learning these things?

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 18 Apr 2006 09:28

Okay I filmed something today.
I uploaded it to Photobucket, where you can nowadays upload videos that 3 minutes (or less) long.

Hope this works:
http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/s ... 6_0001.flv

Sorry about the bad quality, it's because I have to load it to my computer with a USB-cable, which is quite slow. And of course, Windows Movie Maker.

*Here is what there is on the video:*
cascade > half shower > half shower, other direction > reverse cascade > shower > shower, other direction > box > drop.
box > crossed arm reverse cascade > catch.
clawing > cascade > crossed arm reverse cascade > rainbow cross <crossed> rainbow cross > (some cascade and crossed arm reverse cascade) > mills mess > half mess > drop.
half mess > mills mess > "mixing stuff" > drop.
"mixing mills mess, half mess and crossed arm reverse cascade throws" > drop.
4-ball fountain (asynchronous) > catch.
4-ball fountain (synchronous) > *1 or 2 wimpy throws* > catch.

-The End-

EDIT: the thing with Photobucket sucks I think, so if anyone's willing to host this video, please take contact.

EDIT2: actually I'm not even sure if you can watch it from Photobucket without logging in with my username and password...

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 18 Apr 2006 21:02

Yeah I could watch it.
You're so good at all of your patterns. I can do tricks, but my "runs" are so short, and my tricks aren't really super consistant. I started to makea video but my dad kept yelling at me because my rice balls thump really loud when they hit the ground

So I guess I have to wait until tomorrow, but I made a short video of some sloppy stuff just because I really wanted to make a video too!

My form on that side toss (what do you call it?) is bad, I think. I didn't do any of it in the video (I think I may have started a shower?), but I think you will see what I mean tomorrow. The Box is cleaning that up a bit though. I got 11 contacts today

I will go for a bunch tomorrow when I can play during the day! I can't wait.

Here is mine. It's much more simple:
http://www.hackrifice.com/marita/060418juggling.wmv

sacktreter · Post by **sacktreter** » 19 Apr 2006 08:12

hey guys, thats some nice stuff there.

i think that learning juggling tricks is really easy compared to learning footbag tricks (3 balls at least).

erik, the key to mills mess is the crossed arm throw. just do a normal cascade and try to cross your arms for a throw. and you have to know, how the pattern has to look like, so you know when you are doing it right. the juggling simulator applets help a lot because you can slow the patterns down very much. thats how i learned rubensteins revenge (a variation of mills mess). it took me like 2 hours of slomo to even understand what i have to do. the rest was practice.

i want to learn 4 ball mills mess so bad. but i think i have to get that crossed arms stuff first. 4 ball shower is also coming.

anyone else of you doing the 4 limbs juggling? i think i could juggle 4 limbs but it is so difficult to get this stuff anywhere in germany.

peeze,
stfn

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 19 Apr 2006 09:13

Rubenstein's is so confusing! What applet did you use to break it down? This is the next trick I need to master and I have had very little luck so far. I've come up with two weird variations of it but still no Rubenstein's.

Jorden · Post by **Jorden** » 19 Apr 2006 09:21

K, my video is approx 14 minutes long w/ 17 badass startey outey tricks.

Up in a couple hours!

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 19 Apr 2006 12:34

is this ished yet jorden, because im just getting into it and a video like this would really help me out!

Jorden · Post by **Jorden** » 19 Apr 2006 14:54

Uploading now.

Check the bottom of my video gallery in the next half hour or so. I'm gonna head out for a walk.

http://www.footbag.org/gallery/showset/203

If someone could post the URL when it's up that'd be cooool.

Jorden

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 19 Apr 2006 16:56

http://v.footbag.org/media/203/Jorden-J ... torial.wmv

That was perfect, Jorden. Thanks so much.
I'm going to learn all of those tonight

You make them all look so easy too. Thanks for the step-by-step directions and the 'shred' using all the tricks!

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 19 Apr 2006 17:00

http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/8244

Jorden · Post by **Jorden** » 19 Apr 2006 18:34

Tricks

1. Cascade [0:08-0:45]
2. Half-Shower [0:49-1:27]
3. Reverse Cascade [1:31-1:57]
4. Columns [2:01-2:28]
5. 1-Up 2-Up Columns [2:29-2:40]
6. Fake 1-Up 2-Up Columns [2:41-2:54]
7. Box [2:57-3:37]
8. Full Shower [3:40-4:16]
9. X Cascade [4:20-5:00]
10. X Reverse Cascade [5:01-5:45] *Note: A couple wrong throws at the beginning*
11. Mill's Mess [5:46-7:29]
12. Windmill [7:31-8:18]
13. Orbits [8:20-9:10]
14. Yo-Yo [9:10-9:59]
15. Oy-Oy [10:00-10:20]
16. Over the Shoulder [10:24-11:14]
17. Head Swirls [11:18-12:14]
18. Burke's Barrage [12:30-13:15]
19. Penguin Catches [13:16-13:51]

...then a sloppy freestyle run.

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 19 Apr 2006 21:27

Very useful.

Prior to watching the video, I could already do...

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, half of 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, not really 13 but I try...and that's it. That's only on his list of course. I'm getting quite good at behind the back and under the legs style catches.

I can do regular cascade with one hand behind my back, and on both sides too! I've been thinking about getting it to the point where I can switch sides but also via behind my back. If that makes sense. So in essence I'd go from my right to left side, the balls staying behind me the whole time.

Scary.

I just spent about 20 minutes trying to learn Box. I've gotten to the point where I can do the first thing Jorden does, where it's one big throw and then two quick ones...but I cannot for the life of me throw in two different directions at the same time. Yet.

sacktreter · Post by **sacktreter** » 19 Apr 2006 22:54

i dont know which applet i used for rubenstein. but i think this doesnt matter as long as you can see the pattern and slomo it enough. check some juggling sites, you will find one. look how the outer ball just goes from one side to the other. leave this one out for the beginning and practice orbits - the motion of the two inner balls. a real non simulated video also helps, in some simulations the arms just slip through each other.

good luck.
stfn

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 20 Apr 2006 00:39

I got 24 contacts of The Box tonight

I do my shower different than my Box, though. I thought that the standard Box pattern was different from Jorden's, like, NOT synchronous tosses (unlike the Box). I do my Shower really fast, not synchronously, and I think that is why my flip shower is harder than the Box for me. I may be doing my Box wrong though. I showed it to my brother and he said it was cool, but I showed it to my mom, and explained ahead of time why it's called what it's called, and after she said she wouldn't have seen it if I hadn't explained. I'll post a video of all my tricks soon and hopefully someone can tell me how my form is.

I think, of the tricks in the video, I could do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8.
Since watching the video, I started on the patterns I had never done before, like the fake 1-up 2-up and the crossed reverse cascade (when Lauri told me to try this I was doing something else).

I'm excited to get to Mills Mess, but I realized that I really have to work on the consistancy of the tricks I can already do. I started doing some other 1-up 2-up patterns too, like one like columns, but you toss the middle ball all the way around the two repeatedly, and one where you toss the two alternatively on either side of the middle. I was also messing around with some other stuff (before I really started understanding how everything works), like spinning and ducking

They're both really hard, especially in my small room with low ceiling.

EDIT:
Here's a video of some patterns of which I question my style. Any tips for cleaning up some mess would be awesome. Oh and maybe tell me, too, if I'm not doing what I think I'm doing; so to that end I will list the tricks I mean to be doing in the video:
http://www.hackrifice.com/marita/060419juggling.wmv

1) REVERSE CASCADE
2) HALF SHOWER: It looks chunky -- not smooth enough?
3) SHOWER: I think this looks fine? But Jorden's was different, with synchronous tosses, so I'm not sure if I'm doing standard Shower?...
4) BOX: My back-and-forth toss (does this have a name?) looks like my hands are too close together and barely tosses (almost 'handing'); sometimes the balls don't go straight up -- I think I just have to work on that, but if my back-and-forth is bad, that will take a lot of work, I think

5) TENNIS: My left (flip) hand doesn't seem to move the same way as my right, I'm not sure if this makes too big of a difference. I find it really noticeable though...
6) CROSSED REVERSE CASCADE: This is like my second time ever doing this one. Does it look okay? Should I turn less to that one side? Am I tossing over far enough?
7) SHOWER: My first toss didn't include all three (oops). I'm not entirely sure how this trick works. In the demo I watched it includes an single rotation of cascade as part of the trick, but it didn't make sense, so when I usually try for consecutives I don't use the cascade. I'm not sure if I'm "seperating" the balls enough... I never really did this pattern since I used my footbags to juggle.

CHOP: Is it clean? I'm not sure about this one either...
9) EATING APPLES (a lighter variation): This is the one that I am most concerned about for style. My brothers say it looks very silly. My one brother said that it looks too SUDDEN, and not smooth enough, so the very last clip was me trying to smoothen it out, but it just feels way too different. The first attempt is what it looked like to me in teh java demo... I really want to know if it looks like it's supposed to...

Thanks!

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 20 Apr 2006 03:02

it's so cool that we are around the same level chan. I was even going to make a video today.

I was interupted though, so I didn't even get warmed up at all. I did manage to figure out the fake shower one side and get like 3 contacts of the box. My flip shower sucks. I hit mills mess with dumb varations like floor stall and forget to let go of the ball.

Juggling is the shiz

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 20 Apr 2006 05:24

Hey Erik, some tips:

On your box:
Towards the beginning of your attempt at the pattern on the video your side to side catch with your right hand is good. Eventually it has the same problem as your left hand. When you catch one of the side to side throws try swinging your forearm a little bit outside of the pattern, and maybe even rotate your torso a tiny bit in that direction. (if the throw is moving to the right, the forearm would move to the right, as well as the torso) This will make it easier to hit the pattern consistently as it won't be so rushed.

Chops:
You're actually a lot closer to burke's barrage. You have the pattern for burke's but the pattern itself isn't clean. As far as I know what Jorden posted wasn't burke's barrage but "take outs" (burke's barrage outside -- I think regular burke's barrage is inside. check the vid on that wildcat site and watch take outs then burke's and maybe you'll understand the difference).

The way I learned chops was to think about doing an atomic set with the juggling bag (and now I do chops ducking and chops spinning but I don't really think either are super distinct looking hehe). Do a regular cascade. When a ball is at its apex make a grab it (making sure to have made a regular throw with the grabbing hand) and pull it down as you throw the next ball under the arm that is making the chop. That's probably not helpful, but I know that thinking of it like atomic really, really helped me.

Good luck!

Also, juggling for me:
- first half of rubenstein's bs yesterday!

today is the day
- under the leg shower bs and bsos, I'd like to eventually get behind the back box

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 20 Apr 2006 10:00

What I find a bit hard, and funny, is that footbag haunts my juggling.

Footbag: always set straight.
Juggling: it may be even stylish to throw the balls more horizontally.

So I think that many of my throws are more vertical than they should be because of footbag.

96% downloaded of Jorden's vid...