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wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 26 Apr 2006 10:15

shredzilla wrote:
Jeremy wrote:using it reiterates the stereotype that being homosexual is wrong/bad.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Well, that is to say you do not know for sure that that's where the origin of that particular connoation comes from, and to state it matter-of-factly is wrong. It would be impossible for you to know who used it in that format first. It's okay to say 'I believe it came from' but to say 'Just to be clear, this is fact' is incorrect in this case.

Regardless of the origins of its use, its current use (whether it is the intention of the of speaker or not) marginalizes a group of people.

IronCladBen wrote:If you put an asterisk next to gay, i.e. "that's gay*" any negative connotation to homosexuals, either explicit or implicit is negated.

I'm sorry, but that's probably the silliest thing I've heard of. I don't know where to begin to respond.

Like I said, I don't think the issue has ever been about whether or not the term is offensive to people.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 26 Apr 2006 11:52

wolfpac444 wrote:
shredzilla wrote:
Jeremy wrote:using it reiterates the stereotype that being homosexual is wrong/bad.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Well, that is to say you do not know for sure that that's where the origin of that particular connoation comes from, and to state it matter-of-factly is wrong. It would be impossible for you to know who used it in that format first. It's okay to say 'I believe it came from' but to say 'Just to be clear, this is fact' is incorrect in this case.
Regardless of the origins of its use, its current use (whether it is the intention of the of speaker or not) marginalizes a group of people.

Well that's homosexuals' fault for using an already defined english word to connote their sexuality. If I all of a sudden started to say that all green eyed people were now called 'pleasant', then 30 years from now people started saying 'that's pleasant' to mean something bad, should I be offended?

The real issue lies in the downfall of American society. Because of an increasing changing value system due to many variables such as legal and illegal drugs, media bombardment, ever-increasing social class separation, and monopolization of resource, America has become a swamp of false ethics and ideals, to the point where little kids say 'that's gay' all the time. Heck I remember when I was 8 years old that was the joke. If someone was pissed at you, they'd be like 'you're gay!' and you didn't even know what it meant.

It's a changing society, and there are a lot of other things to waste energy on. I personally get much more offended by excessive cussing and adult and drug-related topics than I do saying 'that's gay' because people know you don't really mean that's something a homosexual would do.

carl winslow · Post by **carl winslow** » 26 Apr 2006 12:25

i never use the word gay to describe somthing i think is bad.
But i do use it sometimes to describe stuff that is gay. for example guys wearing really short shorts or people talking with lisps.

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » 26 Apr 2006 15:29

Censorship is gay*

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 26 Apr 2006 16:25

This thread is phGucAkiYng.

Can't we all just smile and be GAY together? You know cheerfully and stuff.

The flowers are in bloom and the sun is a GAY. You know bright like blinding and stuff.

Or we could be GAY and hide in the dark. You know, be like unconventional and stuff.

After all, it's a GAY (unconventional) world out there, with lots of GAY (cheerful) smiling people, GAY (homosexual) not so smiling people, GAY GAY (cheerful homosexual) people, GAY GAY GAY (cheerful, unconventional, homosexual) people, and even GAY^4 (cheerful, bright, unconventional, homosexual --- AKA: flamin'). Just be glad you know the proper ways to display the word *GAY, least not-offend with words like *GAYS.

By the way - anyone gotta footbag?

~peace
Flamin'

____________________

^^^ *Not intended to offend

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 27 Apr 2006 05:34

shredzilla wrote:
wolfpac444 wrote:
shredzilla wrote: I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Well, that is to say you do not know for sure that that's where the origin of that particular connoation comes from, and to state it matter-of-factly is wrong. It would be impossible for you to know who used it in that format first. It's okay to say 'I believe it came from' but to say 'Just to be clear, this is fact' is incorrect in this case.
Regardless of the origins of its use, its current use (whether it is the intention of the of speaker or not) marginalizes a group of people.
Well that's homosexuals' fault for using an already defined english word to connote their sexuality. If I all of a sudden started to say that all green eyed people were now called 'pleasant', then 30 years from now people started saying 'that's pleasant' to mean something bad, should I be offended?

The real issue lies in the downfall of American society. Because of an increasing changing value system due to many variables such as legal and illegal drugs, media bombardment, ever-increasing social class separation, and monopolization of resource, America has become a swamp of false ethics and ideals, to the point where little kids say 'that's gay' all the time. Heck I remember when I was 8 years old that was the joke. If someone was pissed at you, they'd be like 'you're gay!' and you didn't even know what it meant.

It's a changing society, and there are a lot of other things to waste energy on. I personally get much more offended by excessive cussing and adult and drug-related topics than I do saying 'that's gay' because people know you don't really mean that's something a homosexual would do.

I can't believe you actually just said that! Are you serious?
The word 'gay' was used to mock homosexuals with a stereotypical flamboyancy. It always contained negative connotation.

The reason it's innapropriate and offensive is in Mike's response. I don't understand how people can read what Mike has said and not understand.

Cussing is completely unnoffensive to me because it is not directed against a people. Swearing is just that. Racial slurs [ and I don't know what to categorize the word 'fag' as] are directed against a people, and are therefore 'hate speech'. How can you be offended by swearing and not hate speech? Do you seriously not understand what is wrong with calling someone gay?

[awww, my puppy just walked up the stairs and sat down next to me

, it was really cute][/b]

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » 27 Apr 2006 06:15

I liked Flexthis's post!

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 27 Apr 2006 07:10

TheVindicator wrote:
shredzilla wrote:
wolfpac444 wrote: Regardless of the origins of its use, its current use (whether it is the intention of the of speaker or not) marginalizes a group of people.
Well that's homosexuals' fault for using an already defined english word to connote their sexuality. If I all of a sudden started to say that all green eyed people were now called 'pleasant', then 30 years from now people started saying 'that's pleasant' to mean something bad, should I be offended?

The real issue lies in the downfall of American society. Because of an increasing changing value system due to many variables such as legal and illegal drugs, media bombardment, ever-increasing social class separation, and monopolization of resource, America has become a swamp of false ethics and ideals, to the point where little kids say 'that's gay' all the time. Heck I remember when I was 8 years old that was the joke. If someone was pissed at you, they'd be like 'you're gay!' and you didn't even know what it meant.

It's a changing society, and there are a lot of other things to waste energy on. I personally get much more offended by excessive cussing and adult and drug-related topics than I do saying 'that's gay' because people know you don't really mean that's something a homosexual would do.
I can't believe you actually just said that! Are you serious?
The word 'gay' was used to mock homosexuals with a stereotypical flamboyancy. It always contained negative connotation.

Do you seriously not understand what is wrong with calling someone gay?

You made absolutely zero sense with that statement lol. Gay people don't mind being called gay. They WANT you to call them gay. So, of course there's nothing wrong with calling them that.

I was saying, that if they didn't want people to misuse 'their' word, they should've made one up. Instead of arbitrarily picking a word in the english language that means happy, they could've gotten creative and came up with their own word.

People now days are doing the EXACT same thing the 'gays' did before THEY started misusing the word. It used to mean happy, then all of a sudden it meant homosexual, because homosexuals wanted it that way. Well, now it means lame because a certain percentage of the populace wants it tha way. Don't you think people 30 years ago were pissed when all of a sudden happy mean't homosexual?

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 27 Apr 2006 12:56

Heterosexuals called homosexuals gay

Homosexuals didn't just 'pick' the word gay, it was branded upon them & they've turned it positive because that is the term in which is applied. Heterosexuals continue to use it negatively

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 27 Apr 2006 17:36

Wikipedia wrote:By the mid-century "gay" was well-established as an antonym for "straight" (respectable sexual behaviour), and to refer to the lifestyles of unmarried and or unattached people. Other connotations of frivolousness and showiness in dress ("gay attire") led to association with camp and effeminacy. This range of connotation probably affected the gradual movement of the term towards its current dominant meaning, which was at first confined to subcultures. The subcultural usage started to become mainstream in the 1960s, when gay became the term predominantly preferred by homosexual men to describe themselves. Gay was the preferred term since other terms, such as "queer" were felt to be derogatory. "Homosexual" was perceived as excessively clinical: especially since homosexuality was at that time designated as a mental illness.

mtoolan · Post by **mtoolan** » 27 Apr 2006 19:07

Don't you find it wierd that we're talking about the word gay as if someone or some group owns it?

Bander87 · Post by **Bander87** » 27 Apr 2006 21:02

Words themselves mean nothing. Its the meaning of the word that means something. Any meaning can be applied to any word. Gay people could have been called Yag people and people would probably still be saying, "that sucks, its so yag".

carl winslow · Post by **carl winslow** » 27 Apr 2006 22:46

what about the word queer? its one of those words that gay people can call themselves but others cant.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 28 Apr 2006 07:54

"Gay", as a word, was hijacked from the English language.

It's was probably selected as a propaganda device, or New-speak, to try to mask the negative connotations then associated with homosexuality.

It would be interesting to know, if the word "gay", was stolen BEFORE or AFTER homosexuality was removed from the list of official mental disorders.

And it is also interesting, that our thought police have come full circle, so that now using the word "gay", in anything less than glowing terms, is now a "thate" crime.

So, of course, using "gay" as a synonym for stupid, or irritating, should result in a ban from the forum.

I expect our moderators to vigorously pursue this type of thought crime.

Oh yeah, and whoever used the "n-word" earlier in this thread, should be banned the longest. That it wasn't used in a slur-ous manner, is irrelevent.

He should be fired from his job also, and booted from his apartment building.

......and have the word RACIST tattooed on his forehead, so as to more easily identify this "thriminal" in the future.

-n

Chris Holden · Post by **Chris Holden** » 28 Apr 2006 12:50

The 1960's first appearance is a classic misconception. Also, a lot of people confuse In 1938 in the movie Bringing Up Baby as the first. The character played by Cary Grant, when asked why he is wearing women's clothing replies, "Because I just went gay all of a sudden."

The first unequivocal written use of gay to mean homosexual is in 1929, in Noel Coward's musical Bittersweet. In the song Green Carnation, four overdressed, 1890s dandies sing:

Pretty boys, witty boys, You may sneer
At our disintegration.
Haughty boys, naughty boys,
Dear, dear, dear!
Swooning with affectation...
And as we are the reason
For the "Nineties" being gay,
We all wear a green carnation.

The penultimate line refers to the 1890s, which were commonly called the gay nineties. In general usage, this appellation had nothing to do with homosexuality, but in this context, Coward clearly uses it as a double entendre.

1868 song by female impersonator Will S. Hays titled, Gay Young Clerk in the Dry Goods Store.

Most importantly, using "gay" as a negative connotation is offensive, and reveals the speaker’s weak articulation.

Don’t be crass. Expand your lexicon today!

Larson · Post by **Larson** » 28 Apr 2006 13:48

Oh yeah, and whoever used the "n-word" earlier in this thread, should be banned the longest. That it wasn't used in a slur-ous manner, is irrelevent.

He should be fired from his job also, and booted from his apartment building.

......and have the word RACIST tattooed on his forehead, so as to more easily identify this "thriminal" in the future.

Are you joking? The person that used this word was not being racist. He was using it to make a point. The context of the word is just as important as the word itself. The fact that nigger wasn't used in a slur-ous manner is very relevent, and that is what the mods should take into consideration when deciding to ban it or not.

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 28 Apr 2006 14:10

Chris Holden wrote: Most importantly, using "gay" as a negative connotation is offensive, and reveals the speaker’s weak articulation.

Don’t be crass. Expand your lexicon today!

Thank you!

JoFa · Post by **JoFa** » 29 Apr 2006 13:21

To Larson: if you couldn't tell that post was sarcasm, you seriously need to read through the posts slower and think about what you're reading. No offense, but that post was brimming with facetiousness.

I'm going to state my opinion on this subject with an example from my life:

there is a girl in my school (interestingly enough, she just got arrested for getting in a big fight and going "crazy") who once told people about the word "breeder." Apparently, in some societies the word breeder is understood as a derogatory term for a straight person. Upon hearing this, many people cracked up in laughter at the absurd idea of being insulted by such a word.

Is "gay" no different? If I were homosexual, and someone insulted me with this word, why should I even consider it offensive? The only reason it has taken it's place as an offensive word is because of the touchiness of the subject of homosexuality.

Take the word "stupid" for example. This word is tossed about in nearly everyone's common vocabulary. But why is this not offensive? There are people who are really stupid, but you don't see them going around telling people that the word is "hateful" or "wrong." It's because the common society has accepted stupid people as normal, therefore the word can't discriminate against the "normal" portion of society (according to politically correct logic).

Last year the whole thing about the word "gay" swept through my high school. If anyone said "man, that's gay" someone would pop up and say "HEY! PLEEAASSEEEE don't use the word GAY like that, it's SOO MEANNN!!!!!"

All I could think of was the fact that people will do anything to find a victim. In the debate over homosexuality, people can't find the side to punish, so they find someone else - innocent people just using a normal word. They then label them as HOMOPHOBIC, and ride off on their high horse.

I think gay* sounds pretty cool. "Dude, that party was gaystar!"

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 29 Apr 2006 15:57

Chris Holden wrote:Most importantly, using "gay" as a negative connotation is offensive, and reveals the speaker’s weak articulation.

Don’t be crass. Expand your lexicon today!

Exactly. This is why I've moved on from my former life of using the word, "gay," to make fun of people who use the word, "gay," to the new, exciting, not-quite-trendy-yet, and so-hilarious-it's-not-offensive land of, "faggadocious."

The two G's make it look Italia, for the added faggadocious effect - similar to the way the 'N' is left out of, "Italian," nowadays.

You're so faggadocious, Chris.

Hakker · Post by **Hakker** » 29 Apr 2006 17:41

This topic is making me giddy and gay!

I have gay friends. Hell, my uncle is gay. Who the fuck cares. It is human nature to be afraid of the unknown, and thats what heterosexualls are, afraid of the unknown. And since heterosexuals are the vast majority, they have turned everybody against the minority. Homosexuals.

Personally, I think its better that we chose "gay" to describe homosexuals instead of something with an already negative meaning, like reeking, or turdy...

I think everybody needs to stop with this goddamn obsession with gays. Gaybashers are just insecure.