Tournament results archive/Nation and World-wide Rankings

[shredzilla]

I've already posted this on .org, but just curious if the seemingly more active of the two forums had members interested in this idea as well:

Hi, is there a place on http://www.footbag.org where they have all of the tournaments and who placed in each event, listed in one area? (As opposed to looking up each event separately and trying to compile a list oneself.)

If so, I was wondering if people in the community would be for starting a World and Nation-wide ranking system based on these results.

If there isn't currently a list, I would be happy to help out in creating one. We only need this year's results for each tournament, since we'll be starting the rankings this year.

I believe a ranking system will give players more incentive to compete in tournaments, and it can also help with defining players within the sport. ie. X player who is ranked 5th in the US, and 10th Worldwide may have more chances of getting sponsored than someone with a lower ranking. I believe this will do a lot in defining the sport of footbag even further. (It will also make the sport more recognizable to any would-be/current fans.)

Sincerely,

J. Chris Miller
[email protected]

Edit: Now that I think about it, we'd probably need more like the past 2-3 years of results, plus this year's in order to come up with a more accurate ranking.

[BalinorNZ]

This is a great idea dude you would have to decide what you are ranking on (shred30 results/routine results etc) but I think it would be a great resource I would love to see Australia: #4 Nic Bathgate written on a ranking page

Would you need all the tornements? Could you just use the ranking from each worlds and each nationals competition and replace last years with this years after the event each year?

[shredzilla]

Well, that's sort of how the current ranking exists. For example, Peter Irish is still #5 in the world, because he placed 5th in World's last year. But in my opinion, just Worlds and Nationals is too little data to determine a true ranking. Those tournaments could be worth more points toward your ranking though. I'm probably going to study golf and bowling's ranking systems to see how they do it.

Yeah, we would take Shred 30 scores, routine placements, Sick 1/3 difficulty and placements, #of tournaments attended, stuff like that. That's why we may need to go back as far as 2 or 3 years, so that we'd have enough info to build an initial ranking, then take it from there.

[shreddaily]

save your energy chris...

footbag ranking:
1 me
2 everyone else


done and done


good luck bud!

[slapdash21]

daaaamn yooou! i thought of this like a week ago but i forgot. but yeah. good idea...

[james_dean]

Great idea man. There was a similar thread a couple of months ago? I don't have time to search for it now though.

[pips]

I like the idea. Knock yourself out it you can make it work.

And to add a little sarcasm...

Let's make trading/ collecting cards too!!! On the front can be a cool picture of the player, and on the back, there will be player stats with the highest number of consequetive kicks and the best trick hit so far and what level the person's at and the average number of contacts hit before dropping and...!!!!!

[BalinorNZ]

Let's make trading/ collecting cards too!!! On the front can be a cool picture of the player, and on the back, there will be player stats with the highest number of consequetive kicks and the best trick hit so far and what level the person's at and the average number of contacts hit before dropping and...!!!!!

That's an awesome idea! I would definatly buy the cards

[Jeremy]

As I said at footbag.org - you should contact Eric Wulff who is the IFPA statsician. People have been working on this on and off for years but ufortuantly the IFPA doesn't really have the resources at the moment (ie. it takes too much time and there are other more important things.) Christian Schubi was working on something a while ago I think so you could contact him and see what he came up with. Steve Goldberg might also be a person to contact. The major problem is that there aren't enough events to come up with anything accurate. Players who compete more often are bound to be ranked higher despite level. For example Phil Morrison has only compete at one event to my knowledge this year but he's certainly one of the top players in the world. Players in Europe which holds much more events than any other region would rated higher. So it's hard to come up with an accurate system - also the level of competition at events varies dramatically and it's hard to come up with something that reflects this.

[shredzilla]

As I said at footbag.org - you should contact Eric Wulff who is the IFPA statsician.

This is your first time commenting in the thread, but I appreciate you giving me some names to contact.

The major problem is that there aren't enough events to come up with anything accurate. Players who compete more often are bound to be ranked higher despite level. For example Phil Morrison has only compete at one event to my knowledge this year but he's certainly one of the top players in the world. Players in Europe which holds much more events than any other region would rated higher. So it's hard to come up with an accurate system - also the level of competition at events varies dramatically and it's hard to come up with something that reflects this.

All of these obstacles can be overcome. Competition difficulty, availability of tournaments in area, locations of tournaments, etc. can all be taken into consideration when calculating rankings. You could even say Phil, would be higher ranked, but if he doesn't keep competing, he starts to lose his ranking. And put simply, Phil who has won the Austrailian Championships would be ranked lower than say Jorden who wins the Canadian Championships, if Jorden goes to Worlds to compete and Phil doesn't or if Jorden's constantly battling a tougher field. It's possible to say the least. And hopefully, if the IFPA or any other organization starts generating good sponsorship money, then there will be more tournaments with more players and more data to calculate rankings. I appreciate you giving me some of the things to watch out for though.

Let's make trading/ collecting cards too!!! On the front can be a cool picture of the player, and on the back, there will be player stats with the highest number of consequetive kicks and the best trick hit so far and what level the person's at and the average number of contacts hit before dropping and...!!!!!

Omg whoever wins this year's Worlds, if you had their trading card you'd be the man! That would be totally sick to have footbag trading cards though.

[sidekick]

Let's make trading/ collecting cards too!!! On the front can be a cool picture of the player, and on the back, there will be player stats with the highest number of consequetive kicks and the best trick hit so far and what level the person's at and the average number of contacts hit before dropping and...!!!!!

Actually, if the cards had the player's signature on it, then I'd buy them! Also have rookie cards for people who were pre-BAP, and then after you get into BAP you'd get an official card. Or something like that, but not as restricting as BAP, maybe if you put a picture with like $20 and mailed it to the IFPA they'd make a card. Then you could buy packs online, wow that sarcastic comment turned out to be a good idea IMO.

[Anz]

Damn hobbits, we no like you. Where's me precious?

Seriously, that's impossible. It work for major sports because all the player attend official competitions. They get paid for it and their journeys are sponsored.

In footbag - no. Players have to go to tournies themselves, and most of them aren't even official.

[shredzilla]

Seriously, that's impossible. It work for major sports because all the player attend official competitions. They get paid for it and their journeys are sponsored.

Ranking has nothing to do with if players are getting paid or not, it's just a way to define them as players. If they're not competing, they won't be ranked. If they need money to get to competitions, there are other ways of doing so besides corporate sponsorships.

Also, coming up to a corporate sponsor like say I don't know Red Bull or Sobe sports drinks or something and saying 'You have the opportunity to sponsor David Clavens who's curently ranked #1 in the US, and 5th Worldwide', that's at least something tangible and impressive. People like it when a sport looks, sounds, and acts like a sport. And sponsors like being affiliated with success, hard work, atheleticism, etc. Sorry, I strayed a bit off the topic, but I'm just trying to point out how important 'looking, sounding, and acting like a sport' is for the future of footbag.

[dyalander]

I think its something to work towards but there are number of steps that need to be made first all of which will take a long, long time to come into fruition. As Jeremy pointed out, many players are vastly disadvantaged by location, there are ways to combat this but they need to be implemented before a ranking system is set in motion. It needs to be done properly because it will then be useful for seeding at tournaments. If we do a half arsed job it will devalue the rankings and prevent them from becoming as important as they could be.
First the competition rules need to be updated and set in stone so that all competitions are using the same rules.
I think the IFPA needs to promote national organisations and national championships. These national organisations will in turn be able to promote growth on a local level, which in turn will allow for more competitor and more valid rankings. Once there are enough competitions I'd suggest a points system where by there are classes of competition and points that go towards a world ranking. Winning Euros would be worth more than winning a national champoinship, which in turn would be worth more than winning a smaller sanctioned event.
Some of these things are happening now, but it all takes time.
Also about the sponsorship thing, big sponsors know the difference between looking professional and being professional. Rankings will have no effect on sponsorship coming into footbag - only participation and visibility can change our sponsorship potential. Going to a sponser and saying you're ranked 2 in the world won't matter because the footbag world is so small. As it stands we are an interesting, eye catching thing that can be used accordingly, if you're the best or just competent, the sponsership potential is still very similar.

[shredzilla]

I think the IFPA needs to promote national organisations and national championships. These national organisations will in turn be able to promote growth on a local level, which in turn will allow for more competitor and more valid rankings

I agree Well, partially. I think there needs to be an organization that focuses only on the US. The IFPA is a small organization and it's tough for them to have their hand in each nation, but it's good that they're able to provide general info for what's going on worldwide.

Each nation, including the US should have it's own organization. Ours would be the USFA (United States Footbag Association) for example. An organization like this could better organize what's going on here in the States. And the clubs in respective states could organize what's going on there, cities, etc.