illegal drug presence on modified and your thoughts

mc · Post by mc » 10 May 2006 07:20

Hey,

Obviously the forum's opinions right now are really differing from what the mods have agreed is good policy. As of now, we almost unanimously voted that we should only have serious discussion of drug topics in health forums (no images, usernames, comments... blogs okay for limited personal discussion, not on distribution, no explicit pictures, etc) and it's that agreement that's led to some of my moderating decisions lately, and that of others.

However, in response to my most recent decision of asking Ben Roscoe to please take down his video from the toronto marijuana march until a part which contains a short clip of a guy wearing / smoking a gas mask with a bong attached is edited out, there's been a lot of dissent.

As moderators, we want to represent the desires of the general modified community while maintaining the task of keeping the elements that might be upsetting to some younger users or their parents at a minimum.

Please post your thoughts on our current policy and your reasons for thinking as such, please reference specific acts of moderating and why you think they were right or wrong, please post suggestions, and please tell us where you'd draw the line. This is kind of a specific issue, so it doesn't do us much good if you're too vague.

We're interested in what you have to say. We want to be a moderating community that respects the wants and needs of the users that we're here to serve, the whole spectrum of them. Please help us acheive that goal.

Thanks,

Matt

Iron Clad Ben · Post by **Iron Clad Ben** » 10 May 2006 09:11

I think it has no place on modified. I think if you want to talk about drugs, go find a drug forum. I also don't think I should need to justify why every time this is brought up. We've heard both sides of the arguments 1000 times and the fact is that a lot of us don't want to see this stuff any more.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 10 May 2006 09:19

I've been waiting for the right place to say this...

It seems to be nearly a universal sentiment of this particular on-line community that footbag should get more respect, should be regarded as a legitimate sport, should shed its bad reputation as just a dumb game played by stoned hippies, etc. etc.

If you've been saying anything like this yourself, of if you've even been thinking it, then put your money where your mouth is rather than your bong and keep your childish and meaningless drug talk off this footbag forum. Go join a drug forum instead and save it for there.

I don't really care so much about footbag's reputation or its legitimacy. I don't really care so much about drugs; whether they're good or bad or whatever, and I'm certainly not offended by their use or images of such, but I would like to see the members of this forum practice what they preach at least enough to keep this little on-line community free from big Pot Leafs, videos of gas-mask-bongs, constant lame threads about how much you all just love getting high, and very poorly disguised titles such as "Smoke?" as though you were being so clever and discreet about what you where really talking about .

That, or lets just stop rambling on about how serious footbag is and how we deserve greater respect as athletes and so on. I mean, how serious are you really? Show a little consistency and conviction, or is that too much to ask?

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 10 May 2006 09:22

Somehow I find that some users tend to brag about drugs more than about their tricks on modified.

I think topics about drugs everywhere else than in Discussion should be banned. People could talk about them in their blogs though, I wouldn't mind that. Also avatars and pictures about drugs don't belong here.

It's good that mods are now organizing rules for this.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 10 May 2006 09:34

I don't care about this one way or the other, but it reminds me of black people worrying what whites think about their culture (36 Mafia on the Oscars ect) and whether they reflect well. According to the poll, 44% of modified users smoke weed, so it's really no surprise that their will be topics made about it. I haven't heard of an instance of a parent pulling their kid from mod because of anythign drug related, and I think people making those kind of worrisome claims are living in a fantasy land.

I think if you want to talk about drugs, go find a drug forum

And people discussing art or politics should go find their respective forums too? That's just silly. The large majority of modified posters want to see the bottom three forums stick around, because only discussing footbag gets boring. Just because this is a "footbag forum" doesn't mean that other stuff shouldn't be discussed here. Ben, your argument falls way short.

I just don't understand why the community wants to hide it's true nature, that being that a large percent of the community tokes herb. I think a lot of you are overestimating the power that modified has on the footbag community. Pictures of weed leaves aren't going to stop anyone from kicking, and if you think they will, then you must be crazy. If footbag is ever going to get big or grow beyond it's tiny stature right now, it's probably going to be ATLEAST 10-15 years down the road, and whether or not modified chooses to allow weed pictures is so totally irrelvent, that I can't even believe I'm posting about it.

Anyways, don't be ashamed that a large part of the community smokes. Why are we trying to push away from the hacky sack image anyways? Shredder's should do their own thing, and stop fuckign worrying so much.

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 10 May 2006 10:54

thank you Dan, i completely agree....and welcome back!

IMO i really dont see the problem with talking about drugs and discussing it. As dan just said, a large portion of the community tokes up on a semi-regular basis, and to edit out these discussions is pointless and will only get more people angry. Based on what some of you are saying, my avatar should be taken away because a bear is smoking a J. I think some of you are taking this issue too seriously and if you dont want to hear about smoking or other drugs then dont read that topic. Obviously a topic called " smoke? " is going to be about smoking something, and to complain about having to read it is your fault...if you dont want to read about drugs then dont click on the topic, its as simple as that.

I can understand how you all want to keep this a "nice" place that is good for the younger kids, but the fact is no matter where they are they will eventually come into contact with drugs. What you have to realize is that no matter what type of forum you are on, there will most likely be a topic about drugs or smoking, its unavoidable.

And to the situation with the marijuanna march video, why is it such a big deal that you have to edit out that certain part? That was a sweet fucking gasmask contraption and i loved seeing it. The video is called "Toronto Marijuanna march" or something like that....obviously that video is going to have some type of association with pot, it says it in the title! Some of these mod edits are going wayyy too far, and i think that discussions about pot and smoking should be allowed to take place as they are now. It is as simple as this...if you dont want to talk or read about weed, dont read or respond to that certain topic.

jon · Post by **jon** » 10 May 2006 11:00

I dont want to get to into this topic at the moment but simply address the video that brought this thread about.

My problem is not drug censorship on the forum as it has existed in the past. I agree that footbag should get more respect and move away from the sterotypes that plague our sport. Therefore I believe threads created to discuss drugs should be taken off the boards. Not so much to protect modified's younger members and their parents (although this is important) but because the focus of the board should be footbag. The community as a whole cannot seem to manage the freedom it was once given to discuss any topic is saw fit. It is just too much hassel and unrealistic to expect mature discussion related to these subjects so for the sake of the mods' sanity and for practical purposes drug thread should be removed.

However the video in question is different. It is not a discussion of drugs. It is a video from the Toronto Weed March Footbag Jame. The video is not going out of its way to express an opinion on the topic of drugs rather I feel it is trying to capture the feeling of the day and the local of the shred. Sure the video could have been made without this clip but that choice should be left up to artistic freedom of the author.

I hope I am making sense with this line of thought. Many other shred videos show players partying and drinking because it captures the feel of the event they represent. This is the case with this video and in my humble opinion it is very different than the blantant dicussion of illegal drugs that has gone on in this forum in the past. Further this video is not being hosted or posted directly to the forum. A user must go out his or her way to click a link to a video hosted off site order to view it. Again this is different then the other illegal drug threads where the discussion and text is actually on this forum.

In situations like this video I would hope there would be wiggle room on the part of the mods with respect to these new rules.

Feel free to disagree with me this is just how I feel and in the end I will not really be offended if the mods dont agree and continue with their policies. If this is what it takes to get more respect for footbag then so be it.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 10 May 2006 11:20

jon wrote:It is just too much hassel and unrealistic to expect mature discussion related to these subjects so for the sake of the mods' sanity and for practical purposes drug thread should be removed.

Yeah, I sort of agree with jon on that point. But I'm really torn. I think if you limited drug talk to the Discussion forum, and make keep it informational, then that would be fair. Kicking Circle is for topics that don't fit in any other forum. Like hobbies or cool stuff that you've seen recently. Not drugs. And not how much you smoke, etc.

Look, I used to smoke. And that poll about 44% smoke may be accurate, but there's a time and a place for stuff like that. An all-ages public forum is neither. UNLESS you want to go to this specially designated area called the Discussion Forum. Here, controversial and taboo topics CAN be discussed, as long as they are informational and not just talking about smoking pot and things like that. I think the way things are is fine. I think that bong mask should be taken out. Yeah, it's the marijuana march. But so what? We got the idea that all the hippies there were smokers. We don't need to see a guy carrying a bong having just smoked pot to prove it. It's illegal, and it's not for all ages to see.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 10 May 2006 11:35

If mods feel the need to take something down, or even better ask/tell someone to take something down than I am fine with that, any situation. This doesn't mean I won't disagree with them, and in my book disagreement online is followed by sarcasm. Thats just how I roll. So yeah when mods censor stuff, especialy stuff I enjoy, I usualy say "that's dumb" in my own way, but I'M STILL HERE!

Outsider wrote:That, or lets just stop rambling on about how serious footbag is and how we deserve greater respect as athletes and so on. I mean, how serious are you really? Show a little consistency and conviction, or is that too much to ask?

This realy deserves a topic all on its own, but I would like to say that I am not serious at all about footbag. I kick nearly every day of my life and spend most of my free money on traveling to tourneys and jams, but I am not serious.
I wrote several paragraphs trying to convey my point here but failed misserably. I'll end in my typical fashion by saying if you want to be taken seriouslly, do something that isn't a joke! We stall a bag with our feet for fun guys.. think about it!
That last statement may have offended me at one point in my kicking career... I wonder why?

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 10 May 2006 11:41

Why couldn't we have age requirements and a measure of consent to get into a special forum to discuss taboo topics? I honestly don't see why people want to restrict drug talk. Besides, this is an international internet forum, and "legality" on the internet is a different issue altogether.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 10 May 2006 13:16

I think it's a lot easier to just not read topics you aren't interested in.

If that's too much to handle, The sensitive user can bitch to a mod. The mod can add their name to a list of complainers. The list can be transported to Vinnie "The Oil Man" Rizzotto\. Vinnie can make sure the squeaky wheel gets greased.

Why can't people just not read threads about topics they don't like ?

Bander87 · Post by **Bander87** » 10 May 2006 16:36

It seems that more and more drug related items are apearing, whether they be avatars, videos, or just topics. With the current trend, it seems that only more and more of these items will be apearing with the growth of this forum. I agree that it is tought to just talk about footbag with so many people and friends with other interest and desires. I think that what people post should just be respectful toward mostly everyboy (can't please everyone all the time).

JoFa · Post by **JoFa** » 10 May 2006 17:05

I don't think videos and pictures, or even stories or discussions (other than direct effects on footbag, which from what I have seen is really just an excuse to talk about weed) belong on here, and that's simply because this forum is supposed to remain appropriate. Being that in many regions (and more specifically the one I live in

) , marijuana is illegal, I feel that it is innappropriate to have these things on the site.

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 10 May 2006 17:12

but right now you are on the internet, and there are very flimsy laws on what is legal and not when you are on it. Talking about smoking is not illegal, and it shouldnt be a banned topic because it is just like us talking about any other hobby. Some of us enjoy talking about weed and footbag, so if you dont want to, just dont read that topic. The fact is, TALKING ABOUT SMOKING WEED OR WEED EXPERIENCES IS NOT ILLEGAL.

I agree that there should be no pictures and videos directly showing the use of mary jane, but we should be allowed to talk about it like any other topic.

My point is this...obviously people want to talk about pot on this forum, if they didnt, there would be no argument in this forum right now. We should be allowed to talk about what we want without having to worry about being innapropriate.

Hakker · Post by **Hakker** » 10 May 2006 17:34

I dont think drug related topics have no place here. I dont care about avatars, bu videos and such should be deleted.

Larson · Post by **Larson** » 10 May 2006 18:57

because this forum is supposed to remain appropriate.

What's appropriate is an opinion. I don't see anything innapproriate about starting a weed thread. What I think would be innappropiate would be to go on to another thread and start talking about weed, when it has no place in the topic.

We are free to start discussions about whatever we want on modified. I really like that and I don't want it to change. If no one wanted to talk about it, it wouldn't get talked about; If you don't want to talk or read about it, then don't click on the thread that says drugs, smoke, weed, or whatever else relates.

As far as the children go, they will inevitably learn about drugs. If a fellow footbag player is pushing drugs on a kid (very unlikley) that is when mods should step in.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 10 May 2006 22:36

Can't people see that this is all so simply remedied by a disclaimer?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 11 May 2006 00:38

I don't see how banning talk about illegal drugs would on modified would effect the image of footbag. I think a much better approach would be to allow people to discuss what they want but people who want to could post in topics about drugs and express their negative opinions on drugs. Simply banning talk about illegal drugs won't change people's attitudes, it will just alienate people who may seriously take up footbag at a later date. Nobody will quit footbag because there are drug references on the forum and it's a fact that many footbaggers - including plenty of the best players in the world - do drugs. Trying to ignore that or pretend it's not true is definitely not a solution. I also am very much opposed to dissallowing behaviour because of personal convictions from the moderators. Talking about drugs is not illegal, nor is displaying pictures of drugs. Even telling people what the best way to use drugs and how to go about that is not illegal. It would be ridiculous for us to have more freedom according to our national laws than we have on an internet forum. I usually think of the moderators and admins on this forum as less conservative than George Bush or John Howard. Allowing people to talk about drugs doesn't stop anybody from expressing negative opinions about drugs and it doesn't force people to read about drugs.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 11 May 2006 09:06

A few weeks ago the Santa Cruz crew did a school assembly for K-8th grade kids. We handed out little slips of paper with some footbag sites on it such as footbag.org, shreditas, freedom footbags, and modified. Before the assembly, when the three of us were talking about which sites to tell the kids about, I didn't want to put modified on there. This is a situation that would almost guarantee that someone under the age of 14 will be visiting Modified because of my(and the guys') suggestion and I don't want to tell a kid to go somewhere where there is a lot of drug talk.

Jeremy made the point that he thought it was important to have it since it is such a huge footbag resource, and it is such a big part of freestyle (or something like that. words might be wrong, but it was the general feeling). (As it turned out, a few of the older kids did seem very interested in getting more into it, since they were already hackers.)

I had to agree with him, but at the same time, I'm unhappy about sending kids to this site because of the drug topics.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 11 May 2006 09:41

So, our unelected, non-representative moderators are wanting to decide that this is an information site, and not a community where people hang out and chat ?

New players, like the type receiving flyers, are not members of the community. They are nothing but potential players. Footbag.org has information for them. Flipsider has information for them. Maybe they shouldn't even know about modified until they have done some time in the community.